Practice 10-20-12

[garyeb2]

Today was the big barn scrimmage. A crowd of upwards to 2000, band, pom squad, banners, posters and free tee shirts. The fans were upbeat. Kruger and the team were well received.

I threw myself abit of a curve with my red team- white team predictions. The Red squad was made up of last years starters plus Bennett, James, and Jarod. The white squad was everyone else.

So, we had a starting lineup for the reds of Grooms, Pledger, Cam, Osby, and Fitz. They were going against the white shirt starters that consisted of Cousins, Heild, Tyler, M'Baye, and Arent. Kruger and Hill had the reds and Henson coached the whites. I was alittle surprised that Kruger set the lineups that way and my first thought was "why would Kruger do that to himself." I don't have an answer to that question.

The scrimmage was first broken into two 10 minute quarters. The squads remained the same for these two time periods. Then some players switched jerseys and they played another 10 minutes. Alittle more jersey switching and they finished it off with a 5 minute set. The first two 10 minute segments were the most relavant. After that the players started getting alittle tired, the play got ragged, and there was some switching around.

This is what the red team did well. Pledger made two just really pretty hand in the face deep 3's. Grooms out quicked his defender and got to the bucket twice. One time he was fouled and hit the free throw. Osby was constantly bull dozeing his way to the basket , getting fouled, and hitting free throws. Fitz had limited good results. But, he was working like a mule. Cam was getting around good on both sides of the ball and scored a couple. He was looking alittle more like last years Cam than the one I had been bragging on.

Let me tell you what the red team did poorly. That bunch of last years starters, as a group can not guard anyone. There is no new news there. Same chapter second verse. It wasn't M"Baye doing the damgage. It was Cousins, Heild and Tyler.

The white team won the first 20 min. by 8. Fitz hit a desperation buzzer beater to cut it from 11. They could have played all day and the white team would have still won. Let me be clear about this. Cousins, Heild, Tyler, M'Baye, and Arent. Are better than Grooms,Pledger, Cam, Osby, And Fitz. I'm not being negative here. I like this team. I think that from those ten players, Kruger will find a combination that is pretty good.

There were several white shirts that played really well. Heild was the leading scorer today. I don't think he shot for a very high Pct. But, he got it in the hole more than anyone else. Cousins is just money with the ball in his hands. He probably didn't shoot for a high pct. either. But, he hit as many 3's as anyone else. Tyler looked like a good player today. He made at least one 3, scored on the inside, and was on the boards. Casey was nothing extra special. But, he was better today than he was at any point last year. M'baye didn't get many balls in the hole and he turned it over a couple of times. So far, the deal on M'Baye is his defensive presence. He is just so long and athletic that he affects what the offense wants to do in alot of ways. Plus he rebounds. Spangler will knock the opponent out of the way, get, the rebound, and put in in the hole. He doesn't and probably never will have the range of Osby or Fitz. But, inside of 8 ft., he is going to be good. Hornbeak played really well too. He just wasn't as involved as much as Cousins and Heild.

For the red squad. Grooms couldn't hit a jumper and turned it over at least 3 times. Other than a couple of 3's Pledger missed alot of open shots. Osby had a solid day and Fitz and Cam were pretty pedestrian. They had no answer for two quick guards. And they had no chance today.

At the end of 20 minutes. Kruger traded Grooms, Pledger and Cam for Cousins, Heild, and M'baye. But, it was too little too late. Cam got hot for the whites and the damage was already done. The whites went on to win comfrontably.

 

[p230]

Wow...not really sure I expected those results! Still it is just one scrimmage and the flip side of that is that we apparently have some guys that can contribute better than last years squad when starters are in a funk. If Arent can produce any at all it will be a huge bonus.

Thanks for the report.

 

[WTSooner]

Anybody trying to gauge too much from an intra-team scrimmage, a week into practice, is trying too hard. The results mean next to nothing. I watched a little of the scrimmage, and the white team was just playing helter-skelter ball. It may have "worked" today, but it won't work within the confines of a real game.

The young guards do a lot of good things. They are going to be pretty darn good some day. I'm not worried at all about last year's guys though. For the most part, we know what they are. And what they are put us in position to win a lot of games last year. Augment that with M'Baye and the young guards, and we'll be fine.

 

[garyeb2]

Anybody trying to gauge too much from an intra-team scrimmage, a week into practice, is trying too hard. The results mean next to nothing. I watched a little of the scrimmage, and the white team was just playing helter-skelter ball. It may have "worked" today, but it won't work within the confines of a real game.

The young guards do a lot of good things. They are going to be pretty darn good some day. I'm not worried at all about last year's guys though. For the most part, we know what they are. And what they are put us in position to win a lot of games last year. Augment that with M'Baye and the young guards, and we'll be fine.

WT, don't ever try to play poker. That game is about accurately, and rapidly processing new informaton. I am not making too much over one scrimmage. The whites won today because the had the best players. The reds were all returning starters that averaged 30 min a game.

The whites were two freshmen who are probably 18/19 yrs. old. A redshirt that hasn't played in two years and a couple of backups. Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee.

 

[Sam]

WT, don't ever try to play poker. That game is about accurately, and rapidly processing new informaton. I am not making too much over one scrimmage. The whites won today because the had the best players. The reds were all returning starters that averaged 30 min a game.

The whites were two freshmen who are probably 18/19 yrs. old. A redshirt that hasn't played in two years and a couple of backups. Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee.

Good thing basketball isn't poker. I've learned over recent years knee jerk reactions are silly in basketball. Its better to take in and process the information rather than getting out the "Jump to Conclusion" mats.

 

[WTSooner]

WT, don't ever try to play poker. That game is about accurately, and rapidly processing new informaton. I am not making too much over one scrimmage. The whites won today because the had the best players. The reds were all returning starters that averaged 30 min a game.

The whites were two freshmen who are probably 18/19 yrs. old. A redshirt that hasn't played in two years and a couple of backups. Why don't you wake up and smell the coffee.

I've made a lot of money gambling on both basketball and poker.

Go back and read your 6 or 7 practice reports. Your opinion on players and stuff changes on some of them day by day. And your reports differ from Sam's. And both yours and Sam's differ from the guys at SoonerNation.

A week of practices isn't long enough to tell much of anything. And I'm sorry, but you suggesting that Cousins/Hield/Neal/M'Baye/Arent is a more talented, better team than Grooms/Pledger/Cam/Osby/Fitz. That is insanely stupid. Sorry, but it is. I doubt you'd get one other poster to agree with that.

Sure, MAYBE they were better today. Under the way the scrimmage was played. Fine. Means nothing. NOTHING. Less than nothing, actually. Remember back last year to the things you were saying early in practice. A whole lot of that ended up not being very accurate once the season started. I suspect the same will be true this year. I'm not trying to bash you or your opinion, but geez. Today's red squad, save maybe M'Baye starting for somebody, is probably going to be our starting lineup to at least start the season, if not for most of the season. Why would Kruger start guys that are "worse basketball players" than the guys, as you like to put it, HE recruited? He wouldn't. That means the red team players are better. Juniors and seniors are almost always better than true freshmen and Arent.

If you are going to evaluate the entire team and program every day that they step on the court, you better be ready to flip flop about 100 times, b/c that is what is going to happen.

 

[garyeb2]

Good thing basketball isn't poker. I've learned over recent years knee jerk reactions are silly in basketball. Its better to take in and process the information rather than getting out the "Jump to Conclusion" mats.

Sam, with all due respect. What knee jerk reaction are you talking about. I'm sure you watched last years games. Grooms, Pledger, Cam, Osby, and Fitz as a group couldn't guard anyone. They still cann't. The white shirts were wide open all afternoon. That is why they beat them.

I thought Pledger was going to get whiplash as Cousins and Buddy blew by him time after time from everywhere on the court. Yes, with M'baye clogging up the middle, offenses will have a hard time doing everything they want to do. Tyler came up bigger than one would expect. Spangler is just as tough as Osby and Fitz and they aren't going to get much the best of him.

There were several things that went into today's result. Cousins and Heild had better days than Pledger and Grooms by any measurement.

As a group the boys in red shirts were a flawed and underperforming group all last season. They were a flawed and underperforming group today.

 

[garyeb2]

I've made a lot of money gambling on both basketball and poker.

Go back and read your 6 or 7 practice reports. Your opinion on players and stuff changes on some of them day by day. And your reports differ from Sam's. And both yours and Sam's differ from the guys at SoonerNation.

A week of practices isn't long enough to tell much of anything. And I'm sorry, but you suggesting that Cousins/Hield/Neal/M'Baye/Arent is a more talented, better team than Grooms/Pledger/Cam/Osby/Fitz. That is insanely stupid. Sorry, but it is. I doubt you'd get one other poster to agree with that.

Sure, MAYBE they were better today. Under the way the scrimmage was played. Fine. Means nothing. NOTHING. Less than nothing, actually. Remember back last year to the things you were saying early in practice. A whole lot of that ended up not being very accurate once the season started. I suspect the same will be true this year. I'm not trying to bash you or your opinion, but geez. Today's red squad, save maybe M'Baye starting for somebody, is probably going to be our starting lineup to at least start the season, if not for most of the season. Why would Kruger start guys that are "worse basketball players" than the guys, as you like to put it, HE recruited? He wouldn't. That means the red team players are better. Juniors and seniors are almost always better than true freshmen and Arent.

If you are going to evaluate the entire team and program every day that they step on the court, you better be ready to flip flop about 100 times, b/c that is what is going to happen.

Wt. When someone tells me they make money playing poker, my first thought is the their record keeping or recollection is faulty. I'm sure that is the case for you. As a matter of fact, I know it is. Winning poker players accept results at face value. They don't make excuses and the don't try to explain it away with bad beat stories.

All you have got is that practice performance is not indicitive of game performance. Well it is. Oh yea, the we almost won the game means we a pretty good. I like that one too. You don't get to collect on a horse if he is ahead at 1/2 mile pole. The money gets paid at the finish line.

Don't tell me what I thought or was thinking when I filed a practice report. When I saw the scrimmage line ups, I was certain the whites would win. Actually, I thought they would beat them alittle worse. If they played it again, they would beat them again. I soften those reports up and try to say something good about everyone that I can. Some people might be interested in them and I didn't want people like you to get their skirts all bunched up.

 

[WTSooner]

When I saw the scrimmage line ups, I was certain the whites would win. Actually, I thought they would beat them alittle worse. If they played it again, they would beat them again.

Sweet. If that is true, I'm sure that "white" team will start on November 11, against LA-Monroe. No doubt. LK is going to play the best guys, right?

As for your comparisons of poker and horse racing, and all of your others over the years.....please, just stop. They don't make any sense. They are apples and oranges comparisons.

 

[garyeb2]

Sweet. If that is true, I'm sure that "white" team will start on November 11, against LA-Monroe. No doubt. LK is going to play the best guys, right?

As for your comparisons of poker and horse racing, and all of your others over the years.....please, just stop. They don't make any sense. They are apples and oranges comparisons.

No WT. I said a combination of those two lineups. And I didn't predict what that combination was. Try argueing with me insted of someone you like to make up. I'm not comparing horse racing and poker to basketball. I am camparing them to the nonsensical things you say. And you were wise to gracefully back out of a poker discussion.

 

[vbdad]

Gary I agree with you although I didn't see the scrimmage. It is a little misleading in that M'Baye played with the youngsters. The coaches believe the point guard situation is going to be great in the future. Cousins and Hornbeak are going to be very good. Buddy has a chance to be special on the wing also.

 

[garyeb2]

Firstly, I don't mind argueing with the people that don't like what I say or think about the Sooners. But, I do want to provide a reference point that people might could use when thinking about today's result.

I went to most all of these early practices last season. Including the first big scrimmage like today's and all the others at regular practice, the result then were the same as today's.

The red team which consisted of the same group as today's, could not beat the whites. It happened over and over. The white's just smoked them. It was right up to the start of the regular season before Grooms, Pledger, Cam, Osby, and Fitz could beat the bench warmers. If I'm remebering correctly the white's back then were the walkon guard, Taylor?, Tyler, CJ, Barry, M'Baye, you get the picture. They didn't even have Calvin. He was the 6th red shirt. This year the white"s put up a much better Group.

Thinking the white's would win this scrimmage was an easy pick. The red's were going to get out quicked pretty bad on the peremeter and M'Baye was going to keep things clogged up to the point that Fitz and Osby were not going to get much. That is exactly what he did last year and that is what he did today.

If Pledger would have had a good shooting day, it could have been alittle closer looking game. But, lacking that, the reds never had much of a shot. If that group of reds ever beat the whites they would have to get much, much better in their execution on both ends of the court. This game presented matchup problems and they were all the wrong way for the reds.

Last year they did. They got better and better and finally they beat the whites. Then they didn't lose to them again. But, these results do mean something. The 1's shouldn't lose to the 2's. A good group of 1's should never lose to the 2's.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Not sure they are running much offense yet. Looked to me like push the ball and free lance. Fitz and Pledger were not getting open off screens like they usually do. It seems that push the ball is a lot of what they have worked on in early practices.

I believe you will see a lot of people getting blown by on defense on Kruger's defense. He plays a lot of in your face defense and counts on a good help defense to pick up the blow bys. They are probably not there yet.

The three freshmen guards looked good to me. One thing for sure, they are not shy about putting the ball up. But it looks like they will help. Neal looked better to me than last year.

Spangler is one tough dude.

I haven't figured M'Baye's game yet. In the early practices and the scrimmage he has not shown a lot of shooting touch. Clearly is athletic and will help a lot. Waiting for his offensive game to show up.

Was fun to watch. Brings back old times to see the fieldhouse. Spent a lot of time on that court playing some pickup. Was a PE major so was around there a lot.

 

[WTSooner]

A couple of things Gary.

First, if the 1's had SO MUCH TROUBLE with the 2's last year, how come that group of 2's barely got any playing time? How come Osby, Fitz, and Grooms started every game last year, and only Blair started 4 games (3 for Cam, 1 for Pledger) off that white squad? Even after Newell left. As poorly as we played at times, surely LK would have started some guys from that white team, since they were so tough for the red team to beat, right?

No. Because that doesn't mean squat. Did you play basketball? Did you ever play on a team, and practice? Because you say things that make me think you didn't. Kind of how when Nick Zepp starts talking, and while he knows some stuff, it's obvious he never played the game. Sometimes the subs beat up on the starters. There are A LOT of reasons why that could happen. But it does happen. Happens in football too. Every year, you'll hear about somebody from the practice squad that is just tearing up the starters on offense/defense. Doesn't mean that person is going to replace whomever is actually the starter at that position though.

I just think you are putting WAY too much stock into what you are seeing. And then your narrative starts showing your bias. Like saying if Pledger had shot better. He hit 40% of his 3's. That is pretty darn good. He hit 1 of 3 from two. That isn't great, but if he hits one more, he shoots 66% from two, and his team has TWO more points. You cannot make arguments like that. You can't do that, b/c literally one shot flips a guy's shooting percentage from below average, to something unsustainable. I've brought this up 100 times, but it's the small sample size argument. Another bias? You didn't mention turnovers at all. The young guards had some. Hield had 4. Cousins had 2 or 3. Back to the small sample sizes, and how practice doesn't mean much.....last year you said M'Baye couldn't miss in practice. This year, he's been off. Today he was off. Does that mean he isn't going to shoot well in games? No. Over 30 games, over the course of several months, that stuff evens itself out. Over 5 practices, it may not.

The other point I was going to make, you edited out of your post, it appears.

 

[elmocarp]

I agree with WT's assessment of Gary. All I keep thinking when I read his practice reports is that this is a guy who doesn't understand practice. And saying things like M'Baye clogs up the middle...that's such an obvious misuse of that term and what it means, its just really hard to lend any credence to any of it. I hate to be critical of someone who is spending such a huge amount of every day watching practice and typing these extensive observations (conservative estimate: 3.5 hours every day on this?), but why shouldn't I be critical? What good are these practice reports? They never coincide with other reports (or themselves) so why would any of us benefit from them?

Speaking of which Gary, in the other post about starters being replaced you made a comment about not replying to WT anymore because its a waste of time, but I wrote a response that you haven't replied to at all...I don't require a response, but I am curious why you didn't. I've got a theory...

 

[KBaden145]

How about this? Gary continue the great practice reports. They give info to people who can't make the practices and I appreciate the time you put into it. However, lets put some brakes on making end all or complete judgements based on a few practices and 1 scrimmage. Way too early. He'll, I think anything prior to December or even conference might be too early.

Practice reports...continue
Rash judgements...stop

 

[garyeb2]

A couple of things Gary.

First, if the 1's had SO MUCH TROUBLE with the 2's last year, how come that group of 2's barely got any playing time? How come Osby, Fitz, and Grooms started every game last year, and only Blair started 4 games (3 for Cam, 1 for Pledger) off that white squad? Even after Newell left. As poorly as we played at times, surely LK would have started some guys from that white team, since they were so tough for the red team to beat, right?

No. Because that doesn't mean squat. Did you play basketball? Did you ever play on a team, and practice? Because you say things that make me think you didn't. Kind of how when Nick Zepp starts talking, and while he knows some stuff, it's obvious he never played the game. Sometimes the subs beat up on the starters. There are A LOT of reasons why that could happen. But it does happen. Happens in football too. Every year, you'll hear about somebody from the practice squad that is just tearing up the starters on offense/defense. Doesn't mean that person is going to replace whomever is actually the starter at that position though.

I just think you are putting WAY too much stock into what you are seeing. And then your narrative starts showing your bias. Like saying if Pledger had shot better. He hit 40% of his 3's. That is pretty darn good. He hit 1 of 3 from two. That isn't great, but if he hits one more, he shoots 66% from two, and his team has TWO more points. You cannot make arguments like that. You can't do that, b/c literally one shot flips a guy's shooting percentage from below average, to something unsustainable. I've brought this up 100 times, but it's the small sample size argument. Another bias? You didn't mention turnovers at all. The young guards had some. Hield had 4. Cousins had 2 or 3. Back to the small sample sizes, and how practice doesn't mean much.....last year you said M'Baye couldn't miss in practice. This year, he's been off. Today he was off. Does that mean he isn't going to shoot well in games? No. Over 30 games, over the course of several months, that stuff evens itself out. Over 5 practices, it may not.

The other point I was going to make, you edited out of your post, it appears.

WT. You didn't watch the scrimmage. You said so yourself. You don't have the 1st damn clue about anything that you are talking about reguarding scrimmage. None-zero-zip-nada. Quit trying to act like you do. You haven't watched any of the practices either. That is obvious.

Stats,probability, and probability math are kind of my long suite in an everyday use kind of way. If you don't stop lecturing me on that topic. I'll embarass you.

The starters from last year could not beat the reserves in practice up until almost the start of the regular season. That is a fact. Period. End of story. I know why it happened that way. I saw it. I'll tell you why so that you can learn something.

First, the second teamers were much bigger than the starters. Second, the reserves had the best player in M'Baye. And third the reserves knew what the starters were running. They practiced the same stuff everyday.

The starters were eventually able to overcome those built in disadvantages because over time they simply improved their execution until they got better. Does that help? They couldn't just over come those disavantages on just talent. They had more talent than the reserves. Just not enough. Remember, everywhere else but the fantisy land you live in, they weren't very good.

About M'Baye's shooting. I know what that is about too. And once again, you don't have a clue. Last season, running with the 2's he was just a free running steet baller. He was playing on the wing and it was easy for him to find himself with alittle space. This season he has mostly been inside and having to work under alittle structure. And that is having some effect on him. Because of all that, last season may have been abit of a mirage.

I didn't edit anything out of my post. Look again. you'll find something else.

Oh, and one more thing with your stats. Everyting I was talking about was referencing the first 20 minutes. I pointed that out. The only two shots Pledger made in that time frame were the two 3's. Everything else he shot whiffed.

 

[garyeb2]

I agree with WT's assessment of Gary. All I keep thinking when I read his practice reports is that this is a guy who doesn't understand practice. And saying things like M'Baye clogs up the middle...that's such an obvious use of that term and what it means, its just really hard to lend any credence to any of it. I hate to be critical of someone who is spending such a huge amount of every day watching practice and typing these extensive observations (conservative estimate: 3.5 hours every day on this?), but why shouldn't I be critical? What good are these practice reports? They never coincide with other reports (or themselves) so why would any of us benefit from them?

Speaking of which Gary, in the other post about starters being replaced you made a comment about not replying to WT anymore because its a waste of time, but I wrote a response that you haven't replied to at all...I don't require a response, but I am curious why you didn't. I've got a theory...

I don't know what you are talking about. I'm sure it was brilliant though.

 

[garyeb2]

Not sure they are running much offense yet. Looked to me like push the ball and free lance. Fitz and Pledger were not getting open off screens like they usually do. It seems that push the ball is a lot of what they have worked on in early practices.

I believe you will see a lot of people getting blown by on defense on Kruger's defense. He plays a lot of in your face defense and counts on a good help defense to pick up the blow bys. They are probably not there yet.

The three freshmen guards looked good to me. One thing for sure, they are not shy about putting the ball up. But it looks like they will help. Neal looked better to me than last year.

Spangler is one tough dude.

I haven't figured M'Baye's game yet. In the early practices and the scrimmage he has not shown a lot of shooting touch. Clearly is athletic and will help a lot. Waiting for his offensive game to show up.

Was fun to watch. Brings back old times to see the fieldhouse. Spent a lot of time on that court playing some pickup. Was a PE major so was around there a lot.

You are exactly right about the offense. Up to this point practice time has been probably 70-30 defense. I discounted that because it is the same with both teams.

 

[garyeb2]

How about this? Gary continue the great practice reports. They give info to people who can't make the practices and I appreciate the time you put into it. However, lets put some brakes on making end all or complete judgements based on a few practices and 1 scrimmage. Way too early. He'll, I think anything prior to December or even conference might be too early.

Practice reports...continue
Rash judgements...stop

How about this. I do exactly whatever the hell I want to do.