Ryan Spangler

[Section31]

WT is exactly right. In general terms there are more D1 ships available than there are quality players to fill them. For the teams below the elite level, they won't be able to attract 13 quality players.

But, on the other hand. With the possible exception of Osby, assuming that any player from a team the plays decent ball is probably better than OU's current bunch isn't much of a stretch.

Can someone list our roster at the time Spangler had made up his mind he was signing with GU??? Maybe JC missed on him, maybe he didn't.

 

[Big Old Booger]

How do you know he can't be any worse? I don't either. I didn't say they were better. We're arguing suck against suck (relatively speaking). Why would you not include Ro as a forward? I'm not bashing Spangler AT ALL. I just think it's safe to say (at this point, and when he was recruited) that he's not a program changer. He may end up being one, but he's CERTAINLY done nothing at this point to warrant all the love he's getting. He committed early and stuck by it...who's to say he wouldn't have gotten an offer late ala Tyler Neal. I believe he and TN offer the same amount to the type of team we all want OU to be. If we want to return to dominance, it won't be on the backs of recruits like Spangler or Neal (although they are great role players you want)...

I didn't list Osby because I doubt Spangler is better than him.

I don't know, he could be worse. That's a scary thought.

 

[DenverSooner]

With the possible exception of Osby, assuming that any player from a team the plays decent ball is probably better than OU's current bunch isn't much of a stretch.

I disagree with this. Pledger plays for just about anyone in the country. He might come off the bench for a few teams but he gets minutes almost everywhere. Fitzgerald also gets minutes almost everywhere. Clark plays at 75% or more of the schools. Grooms plays at a lot of schools.

The problem with OU isn't so much the individual players as how they mesh as a team. OU has two guys that can't shoot very well in Grooms and Clark. OU has two guys that are bit slow in Pledger and Fitzgerald. It is much easier to cover for one slow player or one guy that doesn't shoot very well from the outside but when you have two guys it becomes a lot more problematic. If Clark and Grooms shot the ball well, the team could cover for any defensive deficiencies of Pledger and Fitzgerald. If those guys were both really good defensive players, OU could cover the poor shooting of Grooms and Clark by causeing turn overs and getting fast break points. Add to this almost no bench and you have an even bigger problem.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Let me end the back and forth for you guys: If Capel had recruited him, he would be garbage to most of the posters saying he might be better than blah, blah, blah....

Since Capel didn't recruit him, he is potentially all world. Its all about Capel as usual, and has little to do with what they know about Spangler....... :facepalm:facepalm

 

[garyeb2]

I disagree with this. Pledger plays for just about anyone in the country. He might come off the bench for a few teams but he gets minutes almost everywhere. Fitzgerald also gets minutes almost everywhere. Clark plays at 75% or more of the schools. Grooms plays at a lot of schools.

The problem with OU isn't so much the individual players as how they mesh as a team. OU has two guys that can't shoot very well in Grooms and Clark. OU has two guys that are bit slow in Pledger and Fitzgerald. It is much easier to cover for one slow player or one guy that doesn't shoot very well from the outside but when you have two guys it becomes a lot more problematic. If Clark and Grooms shot the ball well, the team could cover for any defensive deficiencies of Pledger and Fitzgerald. If those guys were both really good defensive players, OU could cover the poor shooting of Grooms and Clark by causeing turn overs and getting fast break points. Add to this almost no bench and you have an even bigger problem.

I suppose that is what message boards are for. People express opinions and exchange ideas. But, I will never understand how so many of the posters got the idea and formed the opinion that Pledger,Fitz and Clark, are good enough to play on a winning OU team. That is something that people may wish to be true. But, there is no evidence that they are. Remember, the games have been played.

The better teams on are TV on playing in the tournament. They don't have guards like our guards. Their's are quick,athletic,shot creaters, and defenders. Their post players can get above the rim,rebound, and defend.

OU plays in the Big 12. Being a player on 75% of the teams isn't good enough. Pledger could start for Us, Tech, and mayby A&M. Fitz, those and probably OSU too. Cam, about the same as Pledger. The top 6 teams in the conference all had better players in those positions.

All of those if this and if that aren't the problem. Besides the subpar talent, this years team had no heart. Kruger said it over and over. He called it lack of toughness, or knowing how to win, or something else. It was plain and simple, no heart.

For players like Pledger and Fitz, all they have done since getting here is lose. It is easy for them now. It is their go to position when things get tough. It is their default setting. And it is contagious. That is how I explain all of those 2nd half wilts.The only way to break this 3 yr losing cycle is for the players that were part of it to be flushed or benched.

These Capel leftovers will be Jrs. and Seniors next season. What we have seen is what we will see again with them. I'm all for Kruger putting the new faces in the game next season and letting them play. What is the worst that can happen? They win only 5 conference games.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Let me end the back and forth for you guys: If Capel had recruited him, he would be garbage to most of the posters saying he might be better than blah, blah, blah....

Since Capel didn't recruit him, he is potentially all world. Its all about Capel as usual, and has little to do with what they know about Spangler....... :facepalm:facepalm

I doubt he's all world and he doesn't have to be to be as good as Fitz or Clark.

 

[Darwin]

I'm not wishing that Ryan get's homesick but if he does and Lon wants him then I'm happy. I hope we get one transfer and add a kid that plays next season.

 

[DenverSooner]

I suppose that is what message boards are for. People express opinions and exchange ideas. But, I will never understand how so many of the posters got the idea and formed the opinion that Pledger,Fitz and Clark, are good enough to play on a winning OU team. That is something that people may wish to be true. But, there is no evidence that they are. Remember, the games have been played.

The better teams on are TV on playing in the tournament. They don't have guards like our guards. Their's are quick,athletic,shot creaters, and defenders. Their post players can get above the rim,rebound, and defend.

OU plays in the Big 12. Being a player on 75% of the teams isn't good enough. Pledger could start for Us, Tech, and mayby A&M. Fitz, those and probably OSU too. Cam, about the same as Pledger. The top 6 teams in the conference all had better players in those positions.

All of those if this and if that aren't the problem. Besides the subpar talent, this years team had no heart. Kruger said it over and over. He called it lack of toughness, or knowing how to win, or something else. It was plain and simple, no heart.

For players like Pledger and Fitz, all they have done since getting here is lose. It is easy for them now. It is their go to position when things get tough. It is their default setting. And it is contagious. That is how I explain all of those 2nd half wilts.The only way to break this 3 yr losing cycle is for the players that were part of it to be flushed or benched.

These Capel leftovers will be Jrs. and Seniors next season. What we have seen is what we will see again with them. I'm all for Kruger putting the new faces in the game next season and letting them play. What is the worst that can happen? They win only 5 conference games.

You originally said any player from a team that plays descent ball would be better than the OU players. I disagree with that. If you want to argue that one or two starters at OU would be better suited to be a bench player, I might agree but to suggest that a guy that led the Big XII in assists and asists to turn overs is terrible just isn't right. To suggest that a guy that averaged about 12 points a game in the post is worse than most college players on descent teams isn't right. To suggest that a guy that was one of the leading scorers in the Big XII and shot a high percentage couldn't play anywhere else just insn't right.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

I suppose that is what message boards are for. People express opinions and exchange ideas. But, I will never understand how so many of the posters got the idea and formed the opinion that Pledger,Fitz and Clark, are good enough to play on a winning OU team. That is something that people may wish to be true. But, there is no evidence that they are. Remember, the games have been played.

The better teams on are TV on playing in the tournament. They don't have guards like our guards. Their's are quick,athletic,shot creaters, and defenders. Their post players can get above the rim,rebound, and defend.

OU plays in the Big 12. Being a player on 75% of the teams isn't good enough. Pledger could start for Us, Tech, and mayby A&M. Fitz, those and probably OSU too. Cam, about the same as Pledger. The top 6 teams in the conference all had better players in those positions.

All of those if this and if that aren't the problem. Besides the subpar talent, this years team had no heart. Kruger said it over and over. He called it lack of toughness, or knowing how to win, or something else. It was plain and simple, no heart.

For players like Pledger and Fitz, all they have done since getting here is lose. It is easy for them now. It is their go to position when things get tough. It is their default setting. And it is contagious. That is how I explain all of those 2nd half wilts.The only way to break this 3 yr losing cycle is for the players that were part of it to be flushed or benched.

These Capel leftovers will be Jrs. and Seniors next season. What we have seen is what we will see again with them. I'm all for Kruger putting the new faces in the game next season and letting them play. What is the worst that can happen? They win only 5 conference games.

Not buying the use to losing crap. Many of those guys won big at every level prior to coming to OU. Teams go from losing to winning in college hoops with the addition of one player. Please explain to me how Stoops took Blake's players, and immediately started winning.....

I agree we are devoid of talent, but I don't buy the premise these guys enjoy losing, don't care about losing, and have gotten content with losing. If any coach is content with players who are content with losing, we don't need him, no matter what he accomplished at another school. I would bet LK would not share your opinion about Pledger, Fitz, and others being content with losing....

 

[garyeb2]

Not buying the use to losing crap. Many of those guys won big at every level prior to coming to OU. Teams go from losing to winning in college hoops with the addition of one player. Please explain to me how Stoops took Blake's players, and immediately started winning.....

I agree we are devoid of talent, but I don't buy the premise these guys enjoy losing, don't care about losing, and have gotten content with losing. If any coach is content with players who are content with losing, we don't need him, no matter what he accomplished at another school. I would bet LK would not share your opinion about Pledger, Fitz, and others being content with losing....

I bet Kruger is sick of them.

 

[garyeb2]

You originally said any player from a team that plays descent ball would be better than the OU players. I disagree with that. If you want to argue that one or two starters at OU would be better suited to be a bench player, I might agree but to suggest that a guy that led the Big XII in assists and asists to turn overs is terrible just isn't right. To suggest that a guy that averaged about 12 points a game in the post is worse than most college players on descent teams isn't right. To suggest that a guy that was one of the leading scorers in the Big XII and shot a high percentage couldn't play anywhere else just insn't right.

Let me rephrase that. With the possible exception of Osby, last years starters would be bench players on a good team. Last years bench players would not have been recruited by a good team.

If OU wants to be a good team again, they need players good enough to start for a good team.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

I bet Kruger is sick of them.

I doubt it. He isn't as fickle as some of our fans.

You got guys who are losing weight as suggested, going to class, not showing up in the campus police blotter, improving in many areas, and for all we know wearing the C&C proudly. If LK gets tired of guys like that, I hope he leaves soon, and anyone who replaces him.

Just think, not long ago we were complaining about guys getting caught stealing, missing practices, and blowing off class. From what I have heard and seen, at least these are good kids, and no one knows how much more they will improve.

You can't convince me that if we had a PG like the kid Murray St had, one who could drive and kick, and always be a threat to score, it wouldn't have made Pledger lethal, with his current skill set. One player can make so many others with limited abilities better.

Magic Johnson took LA to multiple titles, and many say well he had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc. All true, but how many had LA won recently prior to his arrival, and how many did they win after he left, before Shaq/Kobe arrived??

You act like Pledger, Fitz, and others should be playing Y league ball, and that is just unfair, IMO......

 

[Big Old Booger]

I doubt it. He isn't as fickle as some of our fans.

You got guys who are losing weight as suggested, going to class, not showing up in the campus police blotter, improving in many areas, and for all we know wearing the C&C proudly. If LK gets tired of guys like that, I hope he leaves soon, and anyone who replaces him.

Just think, not long ago we were complaining about guys getting caught stealing, missing practices, and blowing off class. From what I have heard and seen, at least these are good kids, and no one knows how much more they will improve.

You can't convince me that if we had a PG like the kid Murray St had, one who could drive and kick, and always be a threat to score, it wouldn't have made Pledger lethal, with his current skill set. One player can make so many others with limited abilities better.

Magic Johnson took LA to multiple titles, and many say well he had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc. All true, but how many had LA won recently prior to his arrival, and how many did they win after he left, before Shaq/Kobe arrived??

You act like Pledger, Fitz, and others should be playing Y league ball, and that is just unfair, IMO......

:clap

 

[garyeb2]

I doubt it. He isn't as fickle as some of our fans.

You got guys who are losing weight as suggested, going to class, not showing up in the campus police blotter, improving in many areas, and for all we know wearing the C&C proudly. If LK gets tired of guys like that, I hope he leaves soon, and anyone who replaces him.

Just think, not long ago we were complaining about guys getting caught stealing, missing practices, and blowing off class. From what I have heard and seen, at least these are good kids, and no one knows how much more they will improve.

You can't convince me that if we had a PG like the kid Murray St had, one who could drive and kick, and always be a threat to score, it wouldn't have made Pledger lethal, with his current skill set. One player can make so many others with limited abilities better.

Magic Johnson took LA to multiple titles, and many say well he had Kareem, Worthy, Scott, etc. All true, but how many had LA won recently prior to his arrival, and how many did they win after he left, before Shaq/Kobe arrived??

You act like Pledger, Fitz, and others should be playing Y league ball, and that is just unfair, IMO......

Pedger's shortcoming don't have anything do with anyone except Pledger. If he would work just half as hard to get himself open as Page, I probably wouldn't be as hard on him. He acts like his primary objective is to play an entire game without breaking a sweat.

I didn't say anything about Y league. I said they wouldn't start for a good team. I didn't say anything about poor character. I said they didn't play basketball well enough.

You are the one that seems to think this is Y league. Capel was fired because he brought in a bunch of guys he couldn't win with. Plus he cheated. Kruger was hired to bring in guys he can win with. And not cheat.
He is getting a multi-million dollar contract to get it done. The assistants and directer of basketball operations are making over $200,000 to bring in kids that they can win with.

Those numbers plus the recruiting budget have mens basketball operating at a deficiet. This is big business and big money and Kruger's job is to get it turned around. Y league is for good kids that play hard but don't get the job done.

And I'm certainly no fickled fan. I have been a consistant supporter of the Institution, the Program, the Aministration, and the current Staff.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

Pedger's shortcoming don't have anything do with anyone except Pledger. If he would work just half as hard to get himself open as Page, I probably wouldn't be as hard on him. He acts like his primary objective is to play an entire game without breaking a sweat.

I didn't say anything about Y league. I said they wouldn't start for a good team. I didn't say anything about poor character. I said they didn't play basketball well enough.

You are the one that seems to think this is Y league. Capel was fired because he brought in a bunch of guys he couldn't win with. Plus he cheated. Kruger was hired to bring in guys he can win with. And not cheat.
He is getting a multi-million dollar contract to get it done. The assistants and directer of basketball operations are making over $200,000 to bring in kids that they can win with.

Those numbers plus the recruiting budget have mens basketball operating at a deficiet. This is big business and big money and Kruger's job is to get it turned around. Y league is for good kids that play hard but don't get the job done.

As usual, you don't address the matter at hand, instead you choose to spout strong opinions few agree with.

Again I say, if Pledger had a PG like the kid at Murray St, or the kid at NC, he would light the perimeter up with open jumpers. That is his strength, will always be his strength, and has landed alot of mediocre athletes in the NBA. Pledger is not Page, and never will be Page. He is a spot up shooter who needs help getting his shot. It doesn't mean he isn't a talent, it doesn't mean he is not a D-1 player, it means he needs a talented PG who can drive and kick, with the threat of scoring to collapse the D, and get him open looks.

Have you ever played this game?? I don't ask that to be funny, but you seem like a guy who may have became a hoops fan later in life, because your views seem very casual. No offense meant by that.

Go look at the careers of guys Dennis Scott, Dale Curry, Chuck Person, etc. Those were guys, slow of foot, not great defenders, but deadly spot up shooters. Put them in a position to handle the ball, create their own shots, and defend a top opponent, and they were worthless. Put them on the wing with Mugsy Bogues, Penny Hardaway, or another penetrating PG, and they become all-star caliber SHOOTERS. Nothing else but SHOOTERS.

Pledger is simply a shooter, and he does that well enough to hit a pretty decent percentage, with one or 2 other scoring threats on the floor, and a PG no one cared to guard further than 3 feet from the bucket. Put Quannas White, T-Mac, or even Terrell Everett with Pledger, and watch him drain open look after open look, and play big minutes on most recent Sooner squads.

Your opinion of SP amazes me. If you know hoops, it is easy to see his liabilities, and his assets, and what is needed to highlight his skill set.

 

[garyeb2]

As usual, you don't address the matter at hand, instead you choose to spout strong opinions few agree with.

Again I say, if Pledger had a PG like the kid at Murray St, or the kid at NC, he would light the perimeter up with open jumpers. That is his strength, will always be his strength, and has landed alot of mediocre athletes in the NBA. Pledger is not Page, and never will be Page. He is a spot up shooter who needs help getting his shot. It doesn't mean he isn't a talent, it doesn't mean he is not a D-1 player, it means he needs a talented PG who can drive and kick, with the threat of scoring to collapse the D, and get him open looks.

Have you ever played this game?? I don't ask that to be funny, but you seem like a guy who may have became a hoops fan later in life, because your views seem very casual. No offense meant by that.

Go look at the careers of guys Dennis Scott, Dale Curry, Chuck Person, etc. Those were guys, slow of foot, not great defenders, but deadly spot up shooters. Put them in a position to handle the ball, create their own shots, and defend a top opponent, and they were worthless. Put them on the wing with Mugsy Bogues, Penny Hardaway, or another penetrating PG, and they become all-star caliber SHOOTERS. Nothing else but SHOOTERS.

Pledger is simply a shooter, and he does that well enough to hit a pretty decent percentage, with one or 2 other scoring threats on the floor, and a PG no one cared to guard further than 3 feet from the bucket. Put Quannas White, T-Mac, or even Terrell Everett with Pledger, and watch him drain open look after open look, and play big minutes on most recent Sooner squads.

Your opinion of SP amazes me. If you know hoops, it is easy to see his liabilities, and his assets, and what is needed to highlight his skill set.

Pledger isn't a great shooter. He is a great H.O.R.S.E. player. I said before the season started that if Pledger was our primary scoring threat, we were in trouble. And we were. He isn't dependable. Off the ball he stands around. He doesn't work his butt off to get open.

Sure, opposing defenses and our own players shortcomings made his job harder sometimes. So what, everyone has a hard job. On the nights when his job came up particularly hard, he didnt get it done very often. Every player that can score alittle gets extra attention from oppnents. The good ones still get the job done.

Pledger's production will drop off measureably next season. He will lose minutes. If any of these freshmen guards can play a lick they will get 15 minutes. Do you think that Kruger is telling these recruits that if they come in,work hard, pay your dues, then your time will come. No, he is telling them that if they come and do the things he ask, they will play. And they will.

Kruger did everything in the world to get the kid open. From inbound plays to sets and screens possession after possession. If there was a way to get him the ball, they did. Not so much of that anymore. M'baye can score. When they are in the game together, the ball will go thru him as much or more than Pledger. There may be someone else pop up with an expanded offensive role. And the team will be better for it. And mayby then, the Pledger defenders will be distracted enough to go on to something else.

So, your arguement is that if Pledger was surrounded by 4 really good players. His shortcomings could be covered up and he to would be a worthy contributor. Well, dah. Couldn't the same be said about any of them?

I'm well aware that I have some opinions that are in the minority on this board. And that should be evidence of what?

 

[Soonerman]

I'm well aware that I have some opinions that are in the minority on this board. And that should be evidence of what?

That your opinions suck and they make you look like you have no idea what the hell you're talking about when it comes to the game of basketball.

 

[Soonerman]

I bet Kruger is sick of them.

I'd bet more on this board being sick of you trashing our players.

 

[garyeb2]

That your opinions suck and they make you look like you have no idea what the hell you're talking about when it comes to the game of basketball.

Really? I probably won't sleep well tonight.

 

[garyeb2]

I'd bet more on this board being sick of you trashing our players.

Whoe Nellie. Recently, different posters started threads bashing both Arent and Grooms. One poster called Grooms the worst point guard to play at OU in 20 yrs. Aother called Arent an intermural level talent. Where were you then?

And just to refresh your memory, "our" players have won what, 14 conference games over the last 3 yrs. To suggest that the talent pool is alittle shallow cann't be that far out of line.