I don't see how it wasn't passed down. There is a reddit thread about that exact chant being used by Texas SAE's from about a month ago. It obviously isn't new.
SAE Video Discussion Thread
- Thread starter AdaSooner
- Start date
I don't see how it wasn't passed down. There is a reddit thread about that exact chant being used by Texas SAE's from about a month ago. It obviously isn't new.
coolm
New member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 8,694
- Reaction score
- 0
I tend to believe the story that it was passed over from Louisiana SAE's. That OU house was off campus for a few years and when it came back in '94 that stuff wasn't around for at least a few years.
I was at OU from '95-'99, so right after it came back and it was obviously still trying to get back on their feet. Most of the guys I knew were actually pretty quiet and academic centered compared to the other frats. Rumor is that none of this started until 3-4 years ago when the house and its leadership flipped. The chant is obviously not new, but that isn't surprising for a fraternity who brags on their own national website about being the only fraternity started in the antebellum south and how their members fought for the Confederacy.
coolm
New member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 8,694
- Reaction score
- 0
exactly. I think you're spot-on there.
DenverSooner
New member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2008
- Messages
- 11,099
- Reaction score
- 0
Regardless of lawsuits and the outcome of the lawsuits, we should all applaud Boren. Had he taken the position he couldn't kick the frat off campus and expel the students people like Sharpton and Jackson would be organizing formal protest at OU. This would lead to more negative media. By taking swift action and the student and faculty protests, OU has done the right thing and avoided a worse situation.
This is a really horrible situation. The negative media is terrible for our school and the harm caused to other students is horrible. As alumni we need to not sweep this under the rug. We need to vigilant in attempting to bring about something positive from this in the form of changed attitudes.
Maybe we should add a required class about racism for all majors. The students could be taught about some of the infamous racist events that have happened in Oklahoma and at OU as well as some of the positive things OU has done to combat that racism. For example, we could teach young people (or remind them) that at one time collegiate sports were segregated and OU was a leader in this region in changing that. OU being a leader on this issue is an example of a positive step taken but he University. Another example would be the Jim Crowe era and the Civil Rights act. Jim Crowe was wrong, the Civil Rights Act was a positive.
I think it is important to include both the negative and positive because those that are not racist or overtly racist are easier to reach. It is the person with hatred in his heart and mind that we want and need to reach. If the class is too one sided as that person views it, I believe they will shut down.
I would also like to see the two Greek Systems at OU integrate. The problem with that is I do not think it may be mandated under our Constitution. Therefore, that will require voluntary action.
If these two things could be accomplished at OU (or others), I think that could potentially take a really ugly event on our campus and bring about positive results.
This is a really horrible situation. The negative media is terrible for our school and the harm caused to other students is horrible. As alumni we need to not sweep this under the rug. We need to vigilant in attempting to bring about something positive from this in the form of changed attitudes.
Maybe we should add a required class about racism for all majors. The students could be taught about some of the infamous racist events that have happened in Oklahoma and at OU as well as some of the positive things OU has done to combat that racism. For example, we could teach young people (or remind them) that at one time collegiate sports were segregated and OU was a leader in this region in changing that. OU being a leader on this issue is an example of a positive step taken but he University. Another example would be the Jim Crowe era and the Civil Rights act. Jim Crowe was wrong, the Civil Rights Act was a positive.
I think it is important to include both the negative and positive because those that are not racist or overtly racist are easier to reach. It is the person with hatred in his heart and mind that we want and need to reach. If the class is too one sided as that person views it, I believe they will shut down.
I would also like to see the two Greek Systems at OU integrate. The problem with that is I do not think it may be mandated under our Constitution. Therefore, that will require voluntary action.
If these two things could be accomplished at OU (or others), I think that could potentially take a really ugly event on our campus and bring about positive results.
SoonerBounce13
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2008
- Messages
- 13,212
- Reaction score
- 1,682
I just hate pandering to the public outcry. Which is what this was.
You know the only time a public vote was held in the Bible?
WTSooner
Well-known member
- Joined
- Feb 26, 2011
- Messages
- 11,801
- Reaction score
- 842
Feel that way about the reverse? Aren't there black-only frats all over the country?
DenverSooner
New member
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2008
- Messages
- 11,099
- Reaction score
- 0
I have no clue about voting in the Bible but I strongly support elections. I hope you do too.
I don't see it as pandering to public outcry. I see it as taking a negative situation and making it as positive as possible.
SoonerBounce13
Well-known member
- Joined
- Nov 6, 2008
- Messages
- 13,212
- Reaction score
- 1,682
If this didn't blow up in the news the fraternity would not have been disbanded. And if the mixon video would have been released and the public outcry was as loud as this latest incident, mixon would be gone. There are countless examples were punishments don't fit the crime. It is all about public outcry justice.
The bible reference was referring to the mob mentality and "public vote" that led to the crucifixion of Jesus. The public rarely gets it right.
http://oklahomacitythunderblog.blogspot.com/
1. Debated whether or not to even write this. It's a Thunder blog and this has nothing to do with the Thunder. It's a basketball blog and this has nothing to do with basketball-- at least not specifically. But it does involve a few things near and dear to my heart (University of Oklahoma and it's athletic department). The distorted reaction to these types of instances also interests and frustrates me. I believe many white people are afraid of these topics. They leave them alone out of fear they will be misunderstood or their comments will be misinterpreted. But I have strong feelings on these topics and specifically the events of this week and I'm going to share them. If you are sick of this subject, I don't blame you. But I believe it is very important for people to voice their unfiltered opinions on these matters.
2. President Boren did the right thing. Even if there was no "due process" involved, he protected his interests and the interests of the University by acting swiftly and sternly. Had he waited to hear this out, the campus would have been overrun with protests and negative media attention-- much more so than what took place anyway. Because this happened at an official event, by an organization officially recognized by the school and because this clearly was not the act of a rouge individual, but something that was taught or passed down, it made things much easier. They identified the main perpetrators and kicked them out of school immediately. He shut down the chapter and closed down the house less than 24 hours after it all came to light. He could not have acted more decisively. Even if this results in some sort of eventual lawsuit or backlash, it pales in comparison to the damage that would have been done had he hesitated and only acted after the public pressure mounted. Beyond just protecting the school, I also believe it was the RIGHT decision. The SAE's deserved to lose their affiliation with the school and the students at the heart of the video deserved to be expelled. Had this been a video taken in someone's apartment or private vehicle, I wouldn't say this, but because this was all done on "official" time, a clean break makes perfect sense to me. Having said that, I actually don't think this means the students are necessarily actually racist. I know that sounds crazy, but in general, we do and say things all the time that probably shouldn't be interpreted literally. Chances are this chant originated decades (or even centuries) ago. The chant itself is 100% racist and was likely written and taught by 100% racists. How it arrived on that bus in 2015 though probably has less to do with actual racism and more to do with ignorance and stupidity. I'd be very surprised if those students actually condone or endorse violence against black people. Chances are they heard it and never paid any real mind to how vile and hurtful it might be. Maybe they grew up in a sheltered environment where they never paid any mind to social issues or took the time to look at life through a lens other than their own. Maybe I'm wrong and these kids are card carrying KKK members, but what is much more reasonable to me is that they are completely self-absorbed and ignorant. So yes, I actually believe that ignorance IS an excuse for something like this. I think you can do something like this without really thinking about what is coming out of your mouth. I do NOT believe that ignorance should absolve them from consequences. They are paying dearly for this and I do not feel sorry for them. Lots of hard lessons to learn in life. This might be the hardest for them. Hopefully they are paying attention.
3. OU linebacker Eric Striker released a now viral video of himself going on a profanity laced tirade against the SAE's and the white fraternities at OU in general. He later apologized for the vulgarity, but not for the content. In the video he said (or at least strongly hinted) that this incident will help expose all the white fraternities and that athletes and other black students have experienced discrimination or at least uncomfortable and awkward moments with members of fraternities. He lumped them all together by saying they are the first after games to shake their hands, etc.. and then go and do something like this. Other athletes echoed these basic sentiments. I completely understand the emotional response and I am perfectly fine with Striker or any other athlete/student voicing their frustrations. But unfortunately here, Striker is combating ignorance with ignorance. He is engaging in profiling and stereotyping. I am white and I was in a frat at OU (1996-2001). And yes, I knew dudes that were racists. I knew dudes that got heavy into drugs. I knew dudes that were cheaters. I knew dudes that were sexists. I knew dudes that were total douchebags in general. No doubt I heard random guys say terrible things about minorities, women, etc. But I never once heard anything like what was on that video-- not from our house or any others on campus. I was at lots of parties, chapter meetings, rush events, etc. and there was never anything remotely like that taught or promoted. Furthermore, I'd say 80% or more of the white guys I knew in the Greek system were completely oblivious (myself included) to any sort of social or racial issues during the time at college. I'm not saying I'm proud of that. Perhaps I should have been more aware or civically involved. But for the most part, we just wanted to hang out and have fun. The issue of race never came up one way or the other. Striker is right-- there are racists in fraternities. Shocking. There are violent offenders on the OU football team as well. Would he think it was fair of me to say that Joe Mixon "f'ed it up" for all OU football players? Is it fair to label all athletes based on some of the negative headlines we read? Of course it happens and that is one thing he was referencing-- but to counter that with the exact same level of stereotyping BS get us nowhere.
4. I support the OU athletes in their response. I appreciate that their protests were organized and peaceful. The statement released by the OU football team made sense. However, the word "exclusivity" stuck out to me and I wonder exactly how far the athletes are willing to take this. Athletes on a major campus are definitely exclusive. I have no doubt they feel all eyes on them if they happen to attend a fraternity party or wind up out amongst the general student population. The divide there is undeniable. But I don't think that has as much to do with race as it has to do with the reality of the modern student athlete. They live in separate dorms and they often aren't able to attend classes as regularly as other students due to scheduling conflicts. Some of them become celebrities on campus. It isn't a "normal" student experience. Just the way it is. Beyond that, gravitating towards the familiar and comfortable is a general societal trend as well-- always has been. Greek houses were established many years ago. Most of them attract the same "type" of people years after year. I joined my fraternity in large part because my childhood/high school friends were joining. I knew some black kids from predominantly white schools and most of their friends were.....white. Had I been the only white guy at my school I hope I would have had some friends and they likely would have been....black. But given the choice, we generally tend to choose the comfortable and familiar. That extends beyond race and goes to geography, socioeconomic, and family backgrounds as well. In the movie Remember the Titans Denzel Washington's character (Coach Boone) FORCED his players to intermingle by FORCING them to room with a teammate of the opposite race. It was only then that the players slowly started breaking down their barriers and started getting to each other as something beyond their initial perceptions or learned biases. So my question to the athletes would be this: In an effort to break through some of this exclusivity what would you be willing to give up? The best way to do this would probably be to just eliminate any sort of athletic living quarters altogether. You wouldn't necessarily be able to choose your roommate. Maybe the five star linebacker winds up in a dorm room with a pre-med foreign exchange student? Maybe we tear down all the barriers that separate the athlete from the general student population. Maybe we start changing policies across the board. Maybe we force students to room with students of a different race. Maybe we force Greek Houses to have quotas. Maybe the traditionally black fraternities are required to take on white members and vice versa. Personally, I don't advocate any of these ideas, but instead of just talking about exclusivity maybe we need to sit down and really figure out what needs to be done about in a practical sense.
5. My last question for athletes would be this: Are you only concerned about racial injustice as it pertains to white versus blacks or are you concerned with injustice and discrimination in general on campus? If it's the latter, then would an athlete being willing to call out a teammate for using the word "homo" or calling someone a "faggot?" Would he be willing to videotape them using those types of slurs and release it? If a teammates tells stories about womanizing or disrespecting females in general, would they be willing to step up? If an anti-violence against women group organized a protest against Joe Mixon remaining on the football team (or any other player/student accused of a similar offense) would they be willing to show up and walk arm in arm then? What about American Muslim students on campus? You don't think they feel the eyeballs (and likely some venom) directed their way during our current climate? Anyone in the locker room ever make a joke about an Asian? Someone make an insensitive comment about someone with a disability? Laugh at someone on the street corner who is in the midst of a mental health issue?
My goal here isn't to deflect or dismiss what happened. This was case of a certain type of institutional racism and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Punishment was deserved. I do not think it was too harsh. I support the athletes, students, and coaches who protested.
But this was easy. A white frat boy from an upper class family being caught on tape using the most hateful of terms against black people is the easiest of targets. It's easy to protest THAT guy. It's easy to dress in black and walk into the stadium arm in arm in protest of THAT garbage. What's not so easy is to look across the locker room, or look across the office, or look into the mirror and make an assessment. Are the athletes willing to do that? Are any of us willing to do that? I loved that the student athletes at OU picked up the ball this week. Now let's see if they have the stones to carry it across the goal line.
1. Debated whether or not to even write this. It's a Thunder blog and this has nothing to do with the Thunder. It's a basketball blog and this has nothing to do with basketball-- at least not specifically. But it does involve a few things near and dear to my heart (University of Oklahoma and it's athletic department). The distorted reaction to these types of instances also interests and frustrates me. I believe many white people are afraid of these topics. They leave them alone out of fear they will be misunderstood or their comments will be misinterpreted. But I have strong feelings on these topics and specifically the events of this week and I'm going to share them. If you are sick of this subject, I don't blame you. But I believe it is very important for people to voice their unfiltered opinions on these matters.
2. President Boren did the right thing. Even if there was no "due process" involved, he protected his interests and the interests of the University by acting swiftly and sternly. Had he waited to hear this out, the campus would have been overrun with protests and negative media attention-- much more so than what took place anyway. Because this happened at an official event, by an organization officially recognized by the school and because this clearly was not the act of a rouge individual, but something that was taught or passed down, it made things much easier. They identified the main perpetrators and kicked them out of school immediately. He shut down the chapter and closed down the house less than 24 hours after it all came to light. He could not have acted more decisively. Even if this results in some sort of eventual lawsuit or backlash, it pales in comparison to the damage that would have been done had he hesitated and only acted after the public pressure mounted. Beyond just protecting the school, I also believe it was the RIGHT decision. The SAE's deserved to lose their affiliation with the school and the students at the heart of the video deserved to be expelled. Had this been a video taken in someone's apartment or private vehicle, I wouldn't say this, but because this was all done on "official" time, a clean break makes perfect sense to me. Having said that, I actually don't think this means the students are necessarily actually racist. I know that sounds crazy, but in general, we do and say things all the time that probably shouldn't be interpreted literally. Chances are this chant originated decades (or even centuries) ago. The chant itself is 100% racist and was likely written and taught by 100% racists. How it arrived on that bus in 2015 though probably has less to do with actual racism and more to do with ignorance and stupidity. I'd be very surprised if those students actually condone or endorse violence against black people. Chances are they heard it and never paid any real mind to how vile and hurtful it might be. Maybe they grew up in a sheltered environment where they never paid any mind to social issues or took the time to look at life through a lens other than their own. Maybe I'm wrong and these kids are card carrying KKK members, but what is much more reasonable to me is that they are completely self-absorbed and ignorant. So yes, I actually believe that ignorance IS an excuse for something like this. I think you can do something like this without really thinking about what is coming out of your mouth. I do NOT believe that ignorance should absolve them from consequences. They are paying dearly for this and I do not feel sorry for them. Lots of hard lessons to learn in life. This might be the hardest for them. Hopefully they are paying attention.
3. OU linebacker Eric Striker released a now viral video of himself going on a profanity laced tirade against the SAE's and the white fraternities at OU in general. He later apologized for the vulgarity, but not for the content. In the video he said (or at least strongly hinted) that this incident will help expose all the white fraternities and that athletes and other black students have experienced discrimination or at least uncomfortable and awkward moments with members of fraternities. He lumped them all together by saying they are the first after games to shake their hands, etc.. and then go and do something like this. Other athletes echoed these basic sentiments. I completely understand the emotional response and I am perfectly fine with Striker or any other athlete/student voicing their frustrations. But unfortunately here, Striker is combating ignorance with ignorance. He is engaging in profiling and stereotyping. I am white and I was in a frat at OU (1996-2001). And yes, I knew dudes that were racists. I knew dudes that got heavy into drugs. I knew dudes that were cheaters. I knew dudes that were sexists. I knew dudes that were total douchebags in general. No doubt I heard random guys say terrible things about minorities, women, etc. But I never once heard anything like what was on that video-- not from our house or any others on campus. I was at lots of parties, chapter meetings, rush events, etc. and there was never anything remotely like that taught or promoted. Furthermore, I'd say 80% or more of the white guys I knew in the Greek system were completely oblivious (myself included) to any sort of social or racial issues during the time at college. I'm not saying I'm proud of that. Perhaps I should have been more aware or civically involved. But for the most part, we just wanted to hang out and have fun. The issue of race never came up one way or the other. Striker is right-- there are racists in fraternities. Shocking. There are violent offenders on the OU football team as well. Would he think it was fair of me to say that Joe Mixon "f'ed it up" for all OU football players? Is it fair to label all athletes based on some of the negative headlines we read? Of course it happens and that is one thing he was referencing-- but to counter that with the exact same level of stereotyping BS get us nowhere.
4. I support the OU athletes in their response. I appreciate that their protests were organized and peaceful. The statement released by the OU football team made sense. However, the word "exclusivity" stuck out to me and I wonder exactly how far the athletes are willing to take this. Athletes on a major campus are definitely exclusive. I have no doubt they feel all eyes on them if they happen to attend a fraternity party or wind up out amongst the general student population. The divide there is undeniable. But I don't think that has as much to do with race as it has to do with the reality of the modern student athlete. They live in separate dorms and they often aren't able to attend classes as regularly as other students due to scheduling conflicts. Some of them become celebrities on campus. It isn't a "normal" student experience. Just the way it is. Beyond that, gravitating towards the familiar and comfortable is a general societal trend as well-- always has been. Greek houses were established many years ago. Most of them attract the same "type" of people years after year. I joined my fraternity in large part because my childhood/high school friends were joining. I knew some black kids from predominantly white schools and most of their friends were.....white. Had I been the only white guy at my school I hope I would have had some friends and they likely would have been....black. But given the choice, we generally tend to choose the comfortable and familiar. That extends beyond race and goes to geography, socioeconomic, and family backgrounds as well. In the movie Remember the Titans Denzel Washington's character (Coach Boone) FORCED his players to intermingle by FORCING them to room with a teammate of the opposite race. It was only then that the players slowly started breaking down their barriers and started getting to each other as something beyond their initial perceptions or learned biases. So my question to the athletes would be this: In an effort to break through some of this exclusivity what would you be willing to give up? The best way to do this would probably be to just eliminate any sort of athletic living quarters altogether. You wouldn't necessarily be able to choose your roommate. Maybe the five star linebacker winds up in a dorm room with a pre-med foreign exchange student? Maybe we tear down all the barriers that separate the athlete from the general student population. Maybe we start changing policies across the board. Maybe we force students to room with students of a different race. Maybe we force Greek Houses to have quotas. Maybe the traditionally black fraternities are required to take on white members and vice versa. Personally, I don't advocate any of these ideas, but instead of just talking about exclusivity maybe we need to sit down and really figure out what needs to be done about in a practical sense.
5. My last question for athletes would be this: Are you only concerned about racial injustice as it pertains to white versus blacks or are you concerned with injustice and discrimination in general on campus? If it's the latter, then would an athlete being willing to call out a teammate for using the word "homo" or calling someone a "faggot?" Would he be willing to videotape them using those types of slurs and release it? If a teammates tells stories about womanizing or disrespecting females in general, would they be willing to step up? If an anti-violence against women group organized a protest against Joe Mixon remaining on the football team (or any other player/student accused of a similar offense) would they be willing to show up and walk arm in arm then? What about American Muslim students on campus? You don't think they feel the eyeballs (and likely some venom) directed their way during our current climate? Anyone in the locker room ever make a joke about an Asian? Someone make an insensitive comment about someone with a disability? Laugh at someone on the street corner who is in the midst of a mental health issue?
My goal here isn't to deflect or dismiss what happened. This was case of a certain type of institutional racism and it shouldn't be taken lightly. Punishment was deserved. I do not think it was too harsh. I support the athletes, students, and coaches who protested.
But this was easy. A white frat boy from an upper class family being caught on tape using the most hateful of terms against black people is the easiest of targets. It's easy to protest THAT guy. It's easy to dress in black and walk into the stadium arm in arm in protest of THAT garbage. What's not so easy is to look across the locker room, or look across the office, or look into the mirror and make an assessment. Are the athletes willing to do that? Are any of us willing to do that? I loved that the student athletes at OU picked up the ball this week. Now let's see if they have the stones to carry it across the goal line.
BoulderSooner
Owner/Operator
- Joined
- Nov 5, 2008
- Messages
- 15,106
- Reaction score
- 5,398
the "athletic dorms" are 51% non athlete ..
I understand that. But that means they are 49% athlete which is still making a pretty concerted effort to segregate them from the rest of the student population. If you want real integration there would just be "dorms" and quarterbacks would room with geologists.
coolm
New member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 8,694
- Reaction score
- 0
FYI - here's a few pics as a little corroboration of my elongated post above...
Here is that SAE house mom - Ms. Gilbow with her son Jason
Here is Jason with The King and Don Gooch (also from EHS same year) and I think that's Boz
and here's Jason swimming with some of his friends
NOT a racist family.It was an incident isolated to a couple of kids, not the whole fraternity.
Here is that SAE house mom - Ms. Gilbow with her son Jason
Here is Jason with The King and Don Gooch (also from EHS same year) and I think that's Boz
and here's Jason swimming with some of his friends
NOT a racist family.It was an incident isolated to a couple of kids, not the whole fraternity.
This is especially applicable in light of the moron State Senator Joseph Silk. This is a big moment for Oklahoma. Arizona lost the Super Bowl over refusing to acknowledge MLK holiday. A recruit de-committing and the football team skipping a few practices is just the top of the iceberg if this heads the wrong direction.
SAE hiring an attorney is a horrible decision. They create conflict, not value. SAE has plenty of well respected alumni that can prove this behavior is not them. So don't hide behind some jackass attorney, get a group together, head to norman, meet with the UnHeard group, meet with the football team and any other black organization you can. Prove to them who you are and commit to working on a solution. Defending the status quo is a reprehensible as the idiot bubble boys from Dallas on that bus.
coolm
New member
- Joined
- Nov 7, 2008
- Messages
- 8,694
- Reaction score
- 0
Agreed. This will make them look 10x worse.
Sounds like its a little bit different than the average situation with the hiring. Doesn't really sound like any type of litigation is impending. Not exactly sure why they hired him, but we'll see. I'll wait to see the why before making a judgement.
campbest
New member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2008
- Messages
- 6,500
- Reaction score
- 0
...and this is why the media is all over the story, it's the easiest attention grabber you can find.
The unheard group has no place in this IMO. They simply pounced on an isolated incident. Remember what they were born out of...A LIE. "Hands up, don't shoot" was and is a lie. Because of that lie, two officers were shot two days ago.
The appropriate action was taken and EVERYONE needs to move on. Additionally, I believe people need to look up the definition of the words racism and prejudice. There's relatively little racism left in this country, while there's more than enough prejudice to go around.