So, Why Don't YOU Come to the Games?

[sooner333]

I went to almost all the games and I live in downtown OKC. My dad and I have tickets and if I couldn't go he got someone to go and the other way around. The tickets were used each game.

Student attendance is my biggest concern. Sure there aren't as many regular seats filled but student attendance has gone way down it seems. I think some of it had been said--a different student, increasing lack of interest means lack of campus buzz. But I think some is the lack of investment. There was something about having to pick up tickets at the football stadium. You had to do something to pick them up so you were more likely to use them. It served as a reminder to you and others who could see this happening that basketball season was going on. Also the student section was in a corner so there were seats better than others worth coming early to get.

But I think winning will cure some ails. When I was there it was a year after NIT but two years after an elite 8 and three after a final four.

 

[MNsooner]

There's one other thing that I think needs mentioning. David Boren has done wonderful things for the University of Oklahoma. The campus transformation is incredible when you compare the Ovals today with what I roamed in the fall of 2000. It's like two different schools. But what is also different is the student that arrives in Norman. More and more are coming from Texas, and those kids have no ties to OU whatsoever. Their matriculation here often leaves them football fans and little else. My wife is that way. They just don't have the school ties from their youth like a lot of us did. I know who Jan Pannell is, but there are few students on campus who could tell you the name of our leading scorer.

I think this part is really true. OU as a state university pulls more and more students from Texas and elsewhere. I am glad for that. It means that the school is more appealing, more respected, etc... It also means that there aren't as many cradle to grave OU fans in the student population. Those kids aren't going to come to OU excited about basketball unless they see us on ESPN the way they see OU football on ESPN.

 

[sdcloud9]

Love the discussion.

The reality is that OU's fan base is small for basketball, few schools have the rabid fan base for more than one high profile sport.

It's just not a priority for fans and with rare exception, never really has been.

I mean Blake Griffin played to a half empty LNC a lot and he was one of the best players in college basketball and from Oklahoma.

I live 2 hours away and work an irrregular schedule so I can't make but a few games per year and none during the week.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Lots of good discussion in here, and I thank each of you for participating.

I think the Thunder plays a crucial role in transforming a really solid crowd of 8,500 to a bleh crowd of 5,500. I don't think the weather plays much of a part, because I've seen OKC transformed into Duluth and 18,000 are still there for a Thunder game. I think this state and its fans only has so much basketball in them, and more and more of them to turn their eyes, wallets and time to the Thunder.

Growing up, I was a HUGE Supersonics fan. I loved the NBA. I couldn't get any of my buddies to talk pro hoops with me. None of em. They followed the NFL religiously, and they had a passing interest in MLB, but they did not give two flips about the NBA. Now those jackwagons are preaching the pick-and-roll to me and breaking down Brooks's substitution patterns like the Zapruder film. These guys couldn't pick Frank Booker out of a lineup of two, but they'd crap themselves to own a pair of Sefolosha's shoelaces.

There's one other thing that I think needs mentioning. David Boren has done wonderful things for the University of Oklahoma. The campus transformation is incredible when you compare the Ovals today with what I roamed in the fall of 2000. It's like two different schools. But what is also different is the student that arrives in Norman. More and more are coming from Texas, and those kids have no ties to OU whatsoever. Their matriculation here often leaves them football fans and little else. My wife is that way. They just don't have the school ties from their youth like a lot of us did. I know who Jan Pannell is, but there are few students on campus who could tell you the name of our leading scorer.

A rabid student following cures a lot of ills, but they cannot drag these kids down to the LNC. Last night they could come in free and get food and a drink. First 2,500 through the doors got that deal, and it looked like 800 or so made the journey. That's sad.

I'd love for the administration to make it easier on the fans who want to come, but it's hard to turn away the money from the big corporations who pay big bucks for primo seats that go unused. I have no idea how you fix that. I'd love for them to do a new GA program. Something like you can come in for $1 as soon as the ball is tipped, and any seat unspoken for at the first media timeout is open season.

I'm just rambling, I know, but it's such a gut punch to see the place not even half full for the final home game of the year. If we were terrible yeah, that's understandable, but we're GOOD!

Oh well. See you in Fort Worth. And Kansas City! If you need me, I'll be at Winstead's.


In Kruger We Trust!

last sunday with the weather .. there were about 13k at the Thunder game ..

 

[BoulderSooner]

Not sure you are getting my point. Everything up to this point has geared towards the students and has gone as far as making the tickets free and giving money away to someone who is there. Not sure what else can be done to garner interest from the students. Only thing left is to physically gather students and force them to go. Time to start marketing a little more towards the "old people" seats, as you call them.

Those empty seats at midcourt are more likely to be corporate seats than individuals. Keep blaming those "old people" though.

And please don't tell me they need to move the students behind the tables at midcourt. I had to see the abomination that was the CrimZone during Sampson years. Lets not repeat that.

the seats at mid court (not florr) opposite the benches are OU staff seats .. used for guests visitors .. players and coaches .. about 3 rows are reserved ..

 

[WaymansFadeaway]

last sunday with the weather .. there were about 13k at the Thunder game ..

They might have announced 13k, but there was nowhere near that... 9 at best. Loud City was 75% empty, Club was 50% at best.

 

[SoMuchDramaInTheLNC]

I talked to my parents last night. They've had tickets for a long time. We got to talking about OU basketball. My mom said how proud she was of them this year, then said, "I felt bad for not coming down last night (WVU). We gave the tickets away at the office. It's the LNC that's the problem. It's a dump, and when I have work in the morning, I don't want to come down from north OKC and sit in traffic for 20 minutes in that awful parking lot." So there's an "old fan" argument.

As a grad student with student tickets, I think you have to get the students early and often. Camp Crimson, the thing for incoming freshmen, needs to really play up OU basketball, if it doesn't already. (I didn't go to it--I've known all the songs and chants since I was 3). There needs to be ticket buying options at the dorms, like sales reps and stuff. Mailers to the Greek houses. Barkers on campus. A group similar to the "Capelables" who were fairly large in number and were able to recruit students to go to games.

 

[DenverSooner]

There's one other thing that I think needs mentioning. David Boren has done wonderful things for the University of Oklahoma. The campus transformation is incredible when you compare the Ovals today with what I roamed in the fall of 2000. It's like two different schools. But what is also different is the student that arrives in Norman. More and more are coming from Texas, and those kids have no ties to OU whatsoever. Their matriculation here often leaves them football fans and little else.

I would be interested to see if this is true. When I was student (starting in 1985) my pledge class had about 20% of the guys from Texas. And I would speculate that about 20% of the house was from Texas. I assumed (with no real basis) that was a fairly accurate representation of the student body. I certainly knew lots of kids from Texas, especially DFW and the panhandle.

 

[Sooner04]

My source from the makeup of the student body comes from several friends who work in the OU Graduation Office. They form relationships with these kids from Camp Crimson and stay with them all the way through, and they've told me the percentage of students from Texas continues to grow.

These kids spend their college years here in Oklahoma, and it's right back to Texas after graduation. They'll come back for a football game or two, but that's about it.

And I want to acknowledge my mistake on Thunder attendance figures. I had no idea they drew so small a crowd during the inclement weather last month. Bad assumption on my part.

 

[BoulderSooner]

They might have announced 13k, but there was nowhere near that... 9 at best. Loud City was 75% empty, Club was 50% at best.

i was there as well .. and you may be right 13 was my guess ..

 

[NMSooner'80]

One big reason the lack of fan support disgusts me so much is that I live in a so-called "basketball town." Our program really is historically better than UNM's, at least if you go back 40 years, on the court. Their only edge would have come in the last 4-5 years after Blake Griffin left.

But, they do draw like crazy, although they have bigger attendance issues for football than OU does for men's basketball. I hate it, though, that Lobo fans can hold OU's poor attendance over my head. But, I also do remind them that we make so much money on football alone that we don't even have to get money from the state (they have to get a ton of home games against cupcakes just to fund most of their sports).

 

[Sooner04]

One big reason the lack of fan support disgusts me so much is that I live in a so-called "basketball town." Our program really is historically better than UNM's, at least if you go back 40 years, on the court. Their only edge would have come in the last 4-5 years after Blake Griffin left.

But, they do draw like crazy, although they have bigger attendance issues for football than OU does for men's basketball. I hate it, though, that Lobo fans can hold OU's poor attendance over my head. But, I also do remind them that we make so much money on football alone that we don't even have to get money from the state (they have to get a ton of home games against cupcakes just to fund most of their sports).

I wonder how New Mexico would draw to their football games if their team was ranked in the top 25 and on their way to a solid bowl game.

 

[NMSooner'80]

I wonder how New Mexico would draw to their football games if their team was ranked in the top 25 and on their way to a solid bowl game.

You'd be surprised. They went 10-1 in 1982, and their attendance for their home finale cost them a bowl game, period. That was the year that Kansas State and Wisconsin, both 6-5, got bowl bids to play each other, and the two 10-1 teams from Tulsa and Albuquerque got shunned.

They were at least decent in the early 2000's, through the end of the '07 season, and still didn't support it like a town of 600,000 should. Too many are brainwashed into that "it's just a basketball town" mindset.

 

[SoonerSpock]

They might have announced 13k, but there was nowhere near that... 9 at best. Loud City was 75% empty, Club was 50% at best.

For all OU home games the box score list two attendance numbers. The larger number is for tickets sold. The smaller number is for tickets scanned at the game.

Those two numbers for the last three home games (KSU, Texas and WVU) were:

Team----------------Sold attendance-----------Estimated attendance

KSU-----------------------12,925---------------------9,248
Texas---------------------12,976--------------------10,078
WVU----------------------10,674----------------------5,632

Both the KSU and Texas games were played Saturday afternoon. The WVU game was Wednesday at 8:00 PM. The late start makes it very difficult to make that has a drive time of one hour or more especially if they have children and it being a school night. Also that Wednesday had heavy rain for at least 45 minutes prior to the game but had stopped raining by games end.

Week night games are always going to have significantly less attendance especially when we are playing a less traditional rival even if it is a conference game with inclement weather. If we could elevate attendance where for the season we averaged what we averaged for the KSU /Texas games (9,663) that would be outstanding.

I looked at the attendance and estimated attendance for conference games in 2012-13 and 2013-14. Estimated (scanned) attendance was up 15.2% increasing from 6,988 to 8,055. Maintain that growth rate next year and we are averaging 9,263 for the conference games. Continue in 2014-15 and our averages are up to 10,653.

I think that kind of attendance will occur if we continue to win at the pace we have for the last two years. But I think we need to make a more concerted effort to get more students at the game. Many schools have 5,000+ students at their games. Students are the easiest target market to market to for the additional fans needed to increase our current growth rate.

Moreover, the students are louder, create chants, intimidate opponents and get the rest of the attendees involved in the game. Create that kind of environment and the OU games will become weekly events that attack more casual fans who just want to be entertained and participate in the event.

Continue winning, get the students involved and suddenly the 5,600 that attended WVU will become the 9,248 that attended KSU while the KSU and Texas games will have 11,000 plus.

As a footnote I also checked box scores for the other conference teams at home and only OU and Texas report two attendance number. That would indicate to me that both schools have actual attendance concerns and will probably be proactive in trying to increase that number.

 

[Sooner76]

I think they are on their way to creating a better environment. I'm fine with a remodel like Michigan recently completed. Took a very similar old structure and did it right. It's awesome. They need to bring the capacity down to around 8500 max. Also, please please please bring the student section down low like they do at Duke and let the cameras actually show them vs. the donor section where there are no fans. This looks terrible on TV. Create suites higher up for the donors. If they aren't going to attend we don't want an empty seat sitting there. As OU continues to get better obviously more fans will attend. They are certainly moving in the right direction and I don't think we are that far off.

 

[SoonerSpock]

I think they are on their way to creating a better environment. I'm fine with a remodel like Michigan recently completed. Took a very similar old structure and did it right. It's awesome. They need to bring the capacity down to around 8500 max. Also, please please please bring the student section down low like they do at Duke and let the cameras actually show them vs. the donor section where there are no fans. This looks terrible on TV. Create suites higher up for the donors. If they aren't going to attend we don't want an empty seat sitting there. As OU continues to get better obviously more fans will attend. They are certainly moving in the right direction and I don't think we are that far off.

Makes little since and is short-sighted to reduce seating capacity to 8,500 when their average attendance for conference games this season was 8,055 conference games which was a 15% growth over last year.

I think filling the current configuration of LNC is doable in the near future. However making the LNC a fan friendly environment for the future may dictate a reduction of 1,000-1,500 to an official capacity of 10,500-11,000 could easily result in frequent sellout if we maintain the current attendance growth rate of 15%. Do that for two years and our average conference attendance would be in excess of the 10,500 capacity and would require another 1,000 of standing room admissions to meet the demand for the home Texas, OSU and Kansas games. I think that is about where Joe C. wants to be as this year no conference game had less than 9,800 sold tickets and seven conference games had ticket sales of 10,672-13,189.

The problem is attendance not ticket sales and attendance is rapidly moving in the right direction. 2014-15 will not only see a continuation of increased attendance but I suspect we will see a much stronger home nonconference schedule that will greatly improve, possibly 25%, above the 3,864 we averaged this season. In fact with the fan expectation for next year and quality teams coming to Norman I could see 80% increase for the nonconference schedule 7,000/game. That along would increase season attendance by 1,500.

Anything less than 10,500-11,000 is inadequate for future needs and possibly for the near term needs of next 2-4 years. I agree that reconfiguring seating locations primarily with luxury suites for the corporate ticketholders that have minimal attendance will help improve the game day environment. But the big money donors that pay the big bucks for seats are going to demand the prime seats down low.

Remember the basketball program is still loosing money therefore the economics of generating facility revenue is of prime importance to the athletic department that demands operating in the black financially. The latest Oklahoma Athletics Strategic Plan and Annual report was for 2010-11. For the school year the athletic department revenues were $93,683,000. We were in the black by only $26,000. The men's basketball program accounted for approximately 3% of the revenues and 8% of the expenses. That 5% loss approaches $5 million. Operating at that kind of loss will insure that any loss in ticket revenue will be offset by increases in ticket prices. In essence Joe C. is still running business not a philanthropic entertainment entity.

 

[sooner333]

I think reduction in capacity makes sense in terms of environment. My concern is that the reduction would just cap season tickets where they are now to the same no-shows. That would only hurt the ability for people to come spur of the moment who didn't have tickets.

 

[BoulderSooner]

I think reduction in capacity makes sense in terms of environment. My concern is that the reduction would just cap season tickets where they are now to the same no-shows. That would only hurt the ability for people to come spur of the moment who didn't have tickets.

that is 100% what it would do

 

[Max Power]

I think reduction in capacity makes sense in terms of environment. My concern is that the reduction would just cap season tickets where they are now to the same no-shows. That would only hurt the ability for people to come spur of the moment who didn't have tickets.

I don't know why people think otherwise. OU is NOT going to stop selling the donors and the corporations those high dollar tickets that go unused. They won't give up that revenue. There will still be anywhere from 3-5 thousand unused tickets most games, with less total seats in the arena.

 

[Sooner04]

What do you suggest then, Max? Do you not think the opportunity to own a suite upstairs will prevent the purchase of seats down low? With the money made from suite sales, might there be a bone thrown to the fan and a reduction made in the price to be donated per seat purchased?

I hope they make it easier to come up day of the game and buy a cheap SRO ticket. Make it a buck, or even five, but sell the hell out of them. First TV timeout, any seat open is a seat for you....regardless of location.