Softball

scrybe said:
If you believe Melyssa is in over her head and the Oregon fiasco is all her fault, then, yeah, I guess it's accurate.
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From what I have read the primary problem is theie athletic department's administration. And they were kind of stupid as the could have kept Mike White for maybe $80K more than they are paying Melyssa and they apparently didn't even make a counter offer. But there is/was some mistrust of Melyssa by some players.

I suspect the liberal culture of Oregon and by their standards the change to the apparent regimented and religious culture associated with Melyssa could be but not necessarily is a factor. I know from acticles published earlier some players complained about ML's dress standards and team requirements were too restrictive. However that element may have all transferred.

I just hope the administration stands behind ML and gives her a chance to succeed. I just know she has a long and hard row to hoe before she sees success as the athletic department has greated a very tough environment to recruit top players to join.
 
SoonerSpock said:
From what I have read the primary problem is theie athletic department's administration. And they were kind of stupid as the could have kept Mike White for maybe $80K more than they are paying Melyssa and they apparently didn't even make a counter offer. But there is/was some mistrust of Melyssa by some players.

I suspect the liberal culture of Oregon and by their standards the change to the apparent regimented and religious culture associated with Melyssa could be but not necessarily is a factor. I know from acticles published earlier some players complained about ML's dress standards and team requirements were too restrictive. However that element may have all transferred.

I just hope the administration stands behind ML and gives her a chance to succeed. I just know she has a long and hard row to hoe before she sees success as the athletic department has greated a very tough environment to recruit top players to join.
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Had to get that "liberal" thing in there, huh? lol

I think it probably had more to do with the free-love cult that was so dominant in Oregon in the eighties. Just can't get the cults out of the Oregon woods, and one of them was around Mike White.

I don't know whether Mike White is as good as people think. He is from OU, and he has brought them to the CWS. But, they really have never come close to being a winner. They have never had that complete team that it takes to make it into the finals. Let's see what he can do at Texas. He didn't exactly dominate OSU.

I never have figured Oregon out. They have some of the characteristics of Baylor in that they seem to be willing to do anything to win. But, softball may not be high on their priority list. It's interesting that the only thing they have been really good at is track.
 
sybarite said:
Had to get that "liberal" thing in there, huh? lol

I think it probably had more to do with the free-love cult that was so dominant in Oregon in the eighties. Just can't get the cults out of the Oregon woods, and one of them was around Mike White.

I don't know whether Mike White is as good as people think. He is from OU, and he has brought them to the CWS. But, they really have never come close to being a winner. They have never had that complete team that it takes to make it into the finals. Let's see what he can do at Texas. He didn't exactly dominate OSU.

I never have figured Oregon out. They have some of the characteristics of Baylor in that they seem to be willing to do anything to win. But, softball may not be high on their priority list. It's interesting that the only thing they have been really good at is track.
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Baylor will pay coaches market rates or above while Oregon will not in any sport.
 
sybarite said:
Had to get that "liberal" thing in there, huh? lol

I think it probably had more to do with the free-love cult that was so dominant in Oregon in the eighties. Just can't get the cults out of the Oregon woods, and one of them was around Mike White.

I don't know whether Mike White is as good as people think. He is from OU, and he has brought them to the CWS. But, they really have never come close to being a winner. They have never had that complete team that it takes to make it into the finals. Let's see what he can do at Texas. He didn't exactly dominate OSU.

I never have figured Oregon out. They have some of the characteristics of Baylor in that they seem to be willing to do anything to win. But, softball may not be high on their priority list. It's interesting that the only thing they have been really good at is track.
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Easy to understand Oregon's success in track if you knew the real emphasis they put on its success and their relationship with Nike. As to success in other sports it depends on you definition of success. Their football team played Auburn for the BCS national championship in 2010 and they played Ohio State for the CFP national championship in 2014. They have also won 4 of the last 10 Pac 12 championships which is more than any other Pac 12 school. That is 2 more national championship games than the Sooners have played in the last 10 years.

I agree we will know a lot more about Mike White after 3 or 4 years at Texas going up against Patty head to head. But for certain it is idiocy to attempt to evaluate him on his first 3 game series against OSU playing with a roster of predominantly Connie Clark recruited players when Patty was 14-1 against Connie the last 5 years or to label making the finals of the WCWS as the only benchmark for success.

But White has been extremely successful as a head softball coach. Oregon had never won a Pac 12 conference championship in the history of the school until after Mike White became head coach in 2010. In his 9 years at Oregon he never failed to make the NCAA Super Regionals, went to 5 WCWS, won 5 conference championships and had a .796 winning percentage in what it 1 of the 2 toughest conferences in the NCAA. Winning 5 of the last 6 Pac 12 Championships is no easy task. His winning percentage .796 at Oregon is higher than Patty's .789 at OU in a much tougher conference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_White_(softball)

http://www.soonersports.com/SportSe...D=750355&q_season=2013&spids=&conf_school_id=
 
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SoonerSpock said:
Easy to understand Oregon's success in track if you knew the real emphasis they put on its success and their relationship with Nike. As to success in other sports it depends on you definition of success. Their football team played Auburn for the BCS national championship in 2010 and they played Ohio State for the CFP national championship in 2014. They have also won 4 of the last 10 Pac 12 championships which is more than any other Pac 12 school. That is 2 more national championship games than the Sooners have played in the last 10 years.

I agree we will know a lot more about Mike White after 3 or 4 years at Texas going up against Patty head to head. But for certain it is idiocy to attempt to evaluate him on his first 3 game series against OSU playing with a roster of predominantly Connie Clark recruited players when Patty was 14-1 against Connie the last 5 years or to label making the finals of the WCWS as the only benchmark for success.

But White has been extremely successful as a head softball coach. Oregon had never won a Pac 12 conference championship in the history of the school until after Mike White became head coach in 2010. In his 9 years at Oregon he never failed to make the NCAA Super Regionals, went to 5 WCWS, won 5 conference championships and had a .796 winning percentage in what it 1 of the 2 toughest conferences in the NCAA. Winning 5 of the last 6 Pac 12 Championships is no easy task. His winning percentage .796 at Oregon is higher than Patty's .789 at OU in a much tougher conference.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_White_(softball)

http://www.soonersports.com/SportSe...D=750355&q_season=2013&spids=&conf_school_id=
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https://texassports.com/schedule.aspx?schedule=406

Thought you might want to look at the Texas schedule and notice that there is a trend that involves more than just the OSU series. Texas has difficulty scoring runs against good teams. When they do win, it is often a low-scoring game.

Six times, mostly recently, Texas has been held to 0 or 1 run. They have lost all six. Curiously, if they score two or three runs, I don''t think they have ever lost. They did get buried in a couple of slugfests in Tempe, 6-9, and Knoxville, 5-9. But, they are winners if they score two as a rule. But, that isn't easy for them.

I will be curious to see if they can hold down Tech enough to beat them. Tech pitching isn't the type that holds teams hitless, but they do have an offense that can score. I don't know if Texas pitching can hold them.
 
I agree that Texas does not have the offense you would like to see from a power perspective but the are scoring runs when compared to the top teams in the country. The whorns have the #33 scoring offense at 5.95 r/g which compares to #25 OSU at 6.22, #15 Tech at 6.83 and the #2 Sooners at 8.06. It would appear that power is their problem. To date they rank #103 in HR's/game with 0.69 (27 HR's), # 21 Tech 1.29 (45), #14 OSU (50) and #1 OU 1.91 (65).

At Oregon his teams scored were in the top 10 in scoring every year for the last 5 years ranking #10, #7, #4, #9 and #6 nationally. They were ranked in the top 10 in HR's per game 3 of the last 5, same as the Sooners. I am comfortable based on his history that White will make significant improvements in the whorns offense both in runs scored and HR's given time.

His top pitchers are White's not Clarks. He brought junior Elish 1.70 era 90.1 inning with him and recruited freshman O'Leary 0.59 and 70.1. Their team era of 1.58 is ranked #5 nationally.

https://stats.ncaa.org/rankings?sport_code=WSB&division=1

https://stats.ncaa.org/team/703/stats?id=14800&year_stat_category_id=14661
 
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Averages can be deceiving. If you score nine runs against Stephen F. Austin, but can't score more than one in games against OSU, Minnesota, Tennessee, etc., it may average out to be five or six runs per game. But, you just can't score against good teams. Look at their record against better teams. Notice what I said about Texas scoring runs, two or more.

OU, in comparison, has scored one run twice, won one of those (1-0 over Grand Canyon). OU has scored two runs once (won 2-1) over Zona. Lost 1-7 to UCLA and 4-7 to Florida State. Notice that Texas lost when they couldn't score in Austin. OU lost to UCLA in Palm Springs and Florida State in Clearwater, neutral sites in their home states. OU scores against good teams.
 
scrybe said:
If you believe Melyssa is in over her head and the Oregon fiasco is all her fault, then, yeah, I guess it's accurate.
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My take was that the players were PO'd at Oregon and it wouldn't have mattered who the new coach was. But, my view is from 50K feet so what do I know.
 
I am not implying that Texas is a comparable team to OU. I think Texas probably finishes 3rd in the conference behind the two Oklahoma schools. But they as you said have quality pitching and as I concurred earlier their offense is lacking especially from a power perspective.

Beats me what you point is when you compare a good, not great offensive team to the top offensive team in the country. Yes the whorns have had difficulty scoring against quality pitching but they have scored 4-11 runs 7 times against teams ranked in the top 20.

My only point is their is a strong basis to believe that Mike White will develop a high quality softball team at Texas just like he did at Oregon and he did build an outstanding program at Oregon. That cannot be disputed. I also think he will win some conference championships in time.
 
SoonerSpock said:
I am not implying that Texas is a comparable team to OU. I think Texas probably finishes 3rd in the conference behind the two Oklahoma schools. But they as you said have quality pitching and as I concurred earlier their offense is lacking especially from a power perspective.

Beats me what you point is when you compare a good, not great offensive team to the top offensive team in the country. Yes the whorns have had difficulty scoring against quality pitching but they have scored 4-11 runs 7 times against teams ranked in the top 20.

My only point is their is a strong basis to believe that Mike White will develop a high quality softball team at Texas just like he did at Oregon and he did build an outstanding program at Oregon. That cannot be disputed. I also think he will win some conference championships in time.
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I don't disagree with most of your statements here. I've stated repeatedly that I believe White is a good/great coach, especially when it comes to knowing/recruiting/teaching pitchers. And, like you, I hope he will build a quality program at UT; if he succeeds it will not only be good for Texas, but also for OU and the entire conference.

I believe it's a stretch, however, to believe that he will win some (as in any number higher than one) Big 12 titles – unless you're referring to the likelihood that he will still be the UT coach long after Patty has retired.
 
scrybe said:
I don't disagree with most of your statements here. I've stated repeatedly that I believe White is a good/great coach, especially when it comes to knowing/recruiting/teaching pitchers. And, like you, I hope he will build a quality program at UT; if he succeeds it will not only be good for Texas, but also for OU and the entire conference.

I believe it's a stretch, however, to believe that he will win some (as in any number higher than one) Big 12 titles – unless you're referring to the likelihood that he will still be the UT coach long after Patty has retired.
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To each his own. As I have previous stated I don't see MW being on par with Patty. But a coach that takes a team that has never won a conference championship in its history and take them to 5 conference champions in 6 years against Arizona, Arizona State, Washington and UCLA is more than capable of winning 2-3 Big 12 championship a decade against OU, OSU, Tech and Baylor. I expect we will know a lot more in 3-5 years.

In fact 2020 with Romero, Clifton, Knighten, Rogers, Lundberg and Aviu gone a lot of offense and defense will be missing 59% of their HR's, 52% of their runs and 49% of their RBI's YTD. Very doubtful the freshman class can replicate those numbers so we might see things a little differently a little sooner than some here anticipate.
 
I don't think we have any more reason for concern than I did a few years ago when I looked up and saw freshmen starting at third, second, first, and outfield with Romero, Clifton, Knighten, and Aviu. The only one that I had faith in was Romero who had a big reputation and a sister who was proven. I sure was counting on good years from Self and Miller to overcome the weaknesses of these freshmen---four or five of them. Who had ever even heard of Clifton?
 
sybarite said:
I don't think we have any more reason for concern than I did a few years ago when I looked up and saw freshmen starting at third, second, first, and outfield with Romero, Clifton, Knighten, and Aviu. The only one that I had faith in was Romero who had a big reputation and a sister who was proven. I sure was counting on good years from Self and Miller to overcome the weaknesses of these freshmen---four or five of them. Who had ever even heard of Clifton?
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Perhaps not unless you consider the production of Clifton, Knighten, Romero and Aviu as freshmen the norm offensively and defensively. I certainly don't. On paper I definitely don't see Donihoo and Pogue replacing Clifton and Romero Riley Boone replacing Aviu perhaps. It could happen but I think it is not likely. Of course I hope I am wrong.

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=211780583
 
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SoonerSpock said:
Perhaps not unless you consider the production of Clifton, Knighten, Romero and Aviu as freshmen the norm offensively and defensively. I certainly don't. On paper I definitely don't see Donihoo and Pogue replacing Clifton and Romero Riley Boone replacing Aviu perhaps. It could happen but I think it is not likely. Of course I hope I am wrong.

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=211780583
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Hey Spock,

I think you are correct on Clifton, Knighten, Romero, and Aviu. They have been a special class. I am not sure that I have ever seen a Frosh class like that one. They are all special and were from Day 1. CC has been a mainstay from the beginning and is quite the leader. Syd is a natural talent, Shea when she is health is one of the best clutch hitters ever at OU and Fali is the biggest gamer ever. I am not sure that she would not be my choice at the plate with the game on the line and she is playing OF like Willie Mays right now.

All of that being said I think Grace Lyons will be special at SS and Grace Green is quickly becoming Shea's replacement at 1B and she can flat hit. Those two are the reason the offense is so much more explosive this year. I believe Hansen will be special at C from Day 1, something OU hasn't had in a while. Again, related to your comments above, I can't imagine that OU will be able to replace Syd and CC without a significant drop off.

Now what Patty is going to do with like 8 pitchers, I have no idea how you keep everyone happy. I have little doubt that breaking in for innings with Juarez, Lopez, and Saile will almost be impossible. Think about it, you have Conrad, Vestal, McAdoo, Nelson-Thiede, and Rains next year. Pitching will be the key next year.
 
From Eric Bailey...

Looking ahead: Baylor visits Norman for a three-game conference series. Game times are 6:30 p.m. Friday, 7 Saturday and noon Sunday.

Looking back: The Sooners have won 22 consecutive games after sweeping host Utah in a Sunday doubleheader 11-2 and 13-3.

Notable: The Sooners are still ranked No. 2 in all major polls. … This is the only full Big 12 series played in Norman. The Iowa State series was moved to Norman last year because of weather and OU will go to Ames in 2019 and 2020. The Bedlam series only has one game in Norman (the others are in Stillwater and Oklahoma City). … OU leads the nation in batting average (.378), slugging percentage (.682) and home runs per game (1.91).
Click to expand...
 
I'm on record stating my belief that the 2016 freshman class at OU was the best freshman class in the history of not only Oklahoma softball, but ALL of college softball.

But the fact that (1) the freshmen of 2016 will be gone after this season and (2) OU can continue to roll are not mutually exclusive.

Patty's recruits traditionally outperform recruits of other D1 teams, even when those teams' recruits are more highly rated. The Oklahoma coach has proven over and over that she's not only a great recruiter, but may also be the best judge of talent in all of softball. The point Speedy made about the two Graces is one example of Patty's extraordinary ability to evaluate high school players.

My advice to those who worry that we'll see a huge drop-off after Syd, Caleigh, Shay, Fale, et al, are gone? Find yourselves a good hiding place, then sit back and watch. If MW and his UT program overtakes Patty's Sooners as the premier program in the Big 12 in the next 2-3 years, I'll be ready to admit that he's an even better coach than I thought he was.
 
Speedy17 said:
Hey Spock,

Now what Patty is going to do with like 8 pitchers, I have no idea how you keep everyone happy. I have little doubt that breaking in for innings with Juarez, Lopez, and Saile will almost be impossible. Think about it, you have Conrad, Vestal, McAdoo, Nelson-Thiede, and Rains next year. Pitching will be the key next year.
Click to expand...

I definitely think you are right that pitching will be our strength and if I were guessing 1 or 2 pitchers will leave. Perhaps not all before the 2020 season but I think Parker Conrad sr. could leave after the 2019 season unless she just wants to graduate and move on with her life.

The 3 new freshman pitchers and redshirt Vestal were all ranked in the top 100 nationally so Icould see 1 possible transfer for more circle time like Melanie Olmos did this year perhaps even after fall ball. However "G", Saile and Lopez graduate after the 2020 season and OU has only 1 pitcher committed in the 2020 class. I cannot see more than 3 starters, 1 closer and a reserve on the staff. And after 2020 the staff will be back down to 5 pitchers in Vestal Jr., McAdoo soph., Nelson-Thiede soph., Rains soph. and Knight fr.

http://www.soonersports.com/ViewArticle.dbml?DB_OEM_ID=31000&ATCLID=211780583

https://247sports.com/college/oklahoma/Board/75/Contents/Oklahoma-softball-recruits-2020-47513178/
 
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