Some negative threads for an 11-0 team

[KBaden145]

I look at a lot of these negative posts about a win as just exposing how much some of these people lack an understanding of the game and the path a team (any team, championship level or not) must travel during the season. To expect any team, national title contender or not, to play their best or close to their best every night, regardless of adjusted expectations, is just plain and simple folly. It is an incredibly long season and to get through the first third against this schedule and be playing at the level they are is extraordinary. It deserves nothing but praise. There are some warts hear and there but nothing to really be concerned about. A poor outing or the eventual loss takes nothing away from how good this team is and how much they could potentially improve before the meat of conference play and March get here. So relax and enjoy.


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[jackson_supersooner]

Well said, Sky!

Negative posts are common on every board I have been on over the years. Nothing wrong with that, unless you're one of those posters who seem to search for something negative to say, or you focus on the negatives and ignore the numerous positives.

As a member of this board since it's inception, I have grown accustomed to complaints and negativity after every loss. This is the first time in my memory that an undefeated team has been dissected and put back together again by a handful of posters who seem to delight in identifying this team's weaknesses.

It's not that they don't have any. As I said before, this team is still a work in progress in a number of ways. But when a group of hard working, dedicated kids plow through the non-conference portion of their season undefeated, winning every game except two by 12 points or more, it's hard to find a lot to complain about.

If they're being scrutinized and criticized now, I don't even want to think about what it will be like when they lose.

Exaaaactly. That's what I'm saying. Enjoy what we have going on. Until they lose I don't see any reason to whine. Then we can talk about what they can do to get better. Heck every team can get better even last years Kentucky. But you don't have to make an 11-0 team a miserable run. Make it a fun one. Then dissect later when they lose about how they need to get better.

 

[playmakr]

Human nature. The convincing win over Villanova made a lot of us believe that OU is a national title contender. With that comes higher expectations. Are some of those expectations unreasonable? No doubt. We're not always going to be at our best, especially in the month of December.

That said, when we're up 20 against a solid but not great team in Harvard, and a few minutes later they're in position to make it a one-score game, it's going to invite criticism. A national title contender should not let this happen to them. Fortunately, if we are a national title contender, this won't happen to us two months from now.

I'll admit to partaking in some of the criticism, but it's always constructive...and I'm not shy about all the things I love about this team as well. :woot

This statement just isn't historically, factually accurate.

 

[skyvue]

This statement just isn't historically, factually accurate.

Thank you. I was responding to that very statement last night when my browser crashed and I couldn't remember what thread it was in.

I imagine it would be hard to find very many "national title contenders" who didn't let a large lead dissipate in one or three (or five) games over the course of a season, even against good but not great teams.

 

[WaymanFan]

This statement just isn't historically, factually accurate.

But you failed to highlight my very next sentence...which I stand by. To illustrate my point, let's take a look at last year's Iowa State team. I think a Final Four berth would be a fairly reasonable goal for a dangerous #3 seed who just won their conference tournament. However, I'm guessing there were some ISU fans who were posting questions like this: "Doesn't it concern anybody that we keep falling behind by double-digit scores and having to rally to win? Do elite teams go into double-digit deficits over and over and over and over again?" I'm sure these posters were perceived as "being negative" since the team was winning. The reality was, they had a reason to be concerned because ISU never figured out the cause of falling into those large deficits..and it killed them in the Tourney.

In the cases of those quick comebacks by Hawaii and Harvard, I'm only going to be concerned if 2 months from now, we're still going through this with the likes of TTech, TCU and KSU. I'm hoping this team learns to put "the dagger" in once we get large leads against inferior opponents. That really is what championship caliber teams do.

 

[playmakr]

But you failed to highlight my very next sentence...which I stand by. To illustrate my point, let's take a look at last year's Iowa State team. I think a Final Four berth would be a fairly reasonable goal for a dangerous #3 seed who just won their conference tournament. However, I'm guessing there were some ISU fans who were posting questions like this: "Doesn't it concern anybody that we keep falling behind by double-digit scores and having to rally to win? Do elite teams go into double-digit deficits over and over and over and over again?" I'm sure these posters were perceived as "being negative" since the team was winning. The reality was, they had a reason to be concerned because ISU never figured out the cause of falling into those large deficits..and it killed them in the Tourney.

In the cases of those quick comebacks by Hawaii and Harvard, I'm only going to be concerned if 2 months from now, we're still going through this with the likes of TTech, TCU and KSU. I'm hoping this team learns to put "the dagger" in once we get large leads against inferior opponents. That really is what championship caliber teams do.

So what defines what a national title contender is or isn't? Iowa State was automatically not a contender because they lost during the first weekend? What is the criteria for what is a title contender or not? Only NCAA results? That's a tough criteria.

All I was saying is if you set a criteria of what is a national title contender, and you can use your own criteria, nearly all of those teams will have similar games sprinkled in throughout the year.

 

[opsooner]

I think there is also a lot to the individual on what they read as negative. I often read someone who wants the team to do well but their personality is just one of nervousness and reaction. I think they still love the team but just have quick triggers. Some others take it personally as though their baby has been called ugly.

I have said many things that I thought were either still positive or at least honest but have still drawn rebuke from some others. That's OK with me and it does not make me right or wrong. I can also find comments from some who complain about negative threads who have themselves been criticized from others multiple times for being negative.

We're all different but we're all still OU bball fans. :woot

 

[stormspencer]

I think there is also a lot to the individual on what they read as negative. I often read someone who wants the team to do well but their personality is just one of nervousness and reaction. I think they still love the team but just have quick triggers. Some others take it personally as though their baby has been called ugly.

I have said many things that I thought were either still positive or at least honest but have still drawn rebuke from some others. That's OK with me and it does not make me right or wrong. I can also find comments from some who complain about negative threads who have themselves been criticized from others multiple times for being negative.

We're all different but we're all still OU bball fans. :woot

Yep. I think everyone should be excited, but we still have areas where we want this team to improve. A few on here don't like those areas being highlighted.....especially after wins. So I guess it's a matter of timing, but there will always be a few on here who aren't going to like what you have to say....regardless of the content (positive or negative) or when you say it.

And yes, I've always found it comical regarding posters complaining about other posters complaining.

 

[skyvue]

we still have areas where we want this team to improve. A few on here don't like those areas being highlighted.....especially after wins. So I guess it's a matter of timing

Timing, yes, but also the ratio of negative to positive. When an 11-0 team that's ranked second in the country wins a competitive tourney in Hawaii, and all some see fit to post afterward are lists of negatives? That's understandably going to irritate some other posters.

Praising what the team did right in addition to critiquing what they did wrong would, I feel confident, bring a much different response.

No one thinks the team can't improve. No one. And I don't think there's a poster on this board who wouldn't be fine with us discussing the various areas in which improvements could be made. But if all a fan ever does is point out what the team did/does wrong? Sorry, but that person's in line for the Mr. Bad Vibes award.

 

[MNsooner]

I just can't understand how people can say things like "X player is trash." To me that is disrespectful to our players. If people want to only focus on the negatives that's certainly annoying to read, but I am okay with it. When people talk trash our players who are helping our team having an incredible season that is something else. I really think less of posters who do that or think they may have problems expressing themselves in how they post online.

 

[DenverSooner]

To illustrate my point, let's take a look at last year's Iowa State team. I think a Final Four berth would be a fairly reasonable goal for a dangerous #3 seed who just won their conference tournament. However, I'm guessing there were some ISU fans who were posting questions like this: "Doesn't it concern anybody that we keep falling behind by double-digit scores and having to rally to win? Do elite teams go into double-digit deficits over and over and over and over again?" I'm sure these posters were perceived as "being negative" since the team was winning. The reality was, they had a reason to be concerned because ISU never figured out the cause of falling into those large deficits..and it killed them in the Tourney.

I thought Niang got injured in the post season last season? If I recall that correctly, I don't think your conclusion is accurate. Let me take the best player off any team in the NCAA Tournament and I think it becomes very difficult for that team to make it to the Sweet 16.

 

[DenverSooner]

I have a lot of time on my hands frequent a lot of message boards for different schools. Every one of them is the same: There's your (1) Homers (2) Pessimists (3) Realists and (4) Trolls. This place is no different.

It's just the way message boards are. There's always someone there to ***** about something. No one is ever completely satisfied unless they win a national championship. It is what it is.

Depending on the day, I'm usually either #1 or #2. And I've learned to just not post when I'm #2.

Why is an optimist a homer, sunshine pumper or some other negative word?

I do not always practice this but I truly believe the secret to life is a positive attitude.

 

[MNsooner]

WaymanFan's conclusion also isn't accurate because it is based on a logical fallacy. He is saying that we aren't a championship team because non-championship teams let other teams go on runs against them. That's silly because championship teams do that sometimes too. Every flaw that a good team has you can find on a bad team. That doesn't mean that they are the same. The only question is, do we do the things championship teams do? I think the 11-0 record indicates we do and that we are a contender for a title.

 

[DenverSooner]

I look at a lot of these negative posts about a win as just exposing how much some of these people lack an understanding of the game and the path a team (any team, championship level or not) must travel during the season. To expect any team, national title contender or not, to play their best or close to their best every night, regardless of adjusted expectations, is just plain and simple folly. It is an incredibly long season and to get through the first third against this schedule and be playing at the level they are is extraordinary. It deserves nothing but praise. There are some warts hear and there but nothing to really be concerned about. A poor outing or the eventual loss takes nothing away from how good this team is and how much they could potentially improve before the meat of conference play and March get here. So relax and enjoy.


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Well said.

I think a lot of fans have never competed in sports anywhere close to a high level. When you are competing against appropriate competition it is virtually impossible to go undefeated. In college basketball it hasn't happened since 1976. Yet I feel some of our fans don't just want no losses, they want forty minutes of perfection each game. That is very unrealistic and I actually feel even if they got close to that, some fans would still complain saying well sure it was good but player X missed that one shot.

Rather than say it is amazing OU could build a 20 point lead, they focus on OU losing the 20 point lead. Rather than saying it is amazing that OU could let Hawaii back in the game but still win on tHawaii's home court (or essentially a home court) when nothing would fall and the calls were going Hawaii's way, they focus on the fact that the game was close or OU almost lost.

Championship teams or good teams don't not face adversity, they win more often than not in the face of adversity.

 

[stormspencer]

I just can't understand how people can say things like "X player is trash." To me that is disrespectful to our players. If people want to only focus on the negatives that's certainly annoying to read, but I am okay with it. When people talk trash our players who are helping our team having an incredible season that is something else. I really think less of posters who do that or think they may have problems expressing themselves in how they post online.

Totally agree....there is no place for ad hominem attacks on the players. These young adults work hard on their game and in the classroom amidst a busy schedule of demands. We all need to realize that when mistakes are made on the court, the players aren't out there "trying to screw up", but in a game this fast with these athletes, errors are going to be made at times.

Still, I don't see anything wrong with pointing out that a player needs to improve or get better in a certain area either. And I think it's ok to acknowledge that player X didn't play well or had a poor game, yet this seems to really upset certain folks on this board. In the end, it's probably more about delivery or constructively critiquing a player without it getting personal.

 

[WaymanFan]

WaymanFan's conclusion also isn't accurate because it is based on a logical fallacy. He is saying that we aren't a championship team because non-championship teams let other teams go on runs against them. That's silly because championship teams do that sometimes too. Every flaw that a good team has you can find on a bad team. That doesn't mean that they are the same. The only question is, do we do the things championship teams do? I think the 11-0 record indicates we do and that we are a contender for a title.

I still think we're a championship-caliber team. If we're still squandering large leads against inferior opponents two months from now, my opinion will change. I think you read what someone highlighted rather than my entire post. Anyway, it is my belief that we'll get that straightened out. I certainly don't have a gloom & doom track record as a poster. I've already arranged the on-call schedule at work for me not to be on-call for the last two weeks of March...because I intend to travel to the Sweet 16 and Final Four games. That said, last year's ISU team is still fresh on my mind. That team simply could not figure out how to not get themselves into a huge hole game after game after game...and it caught up with them...quickly.

 

[WaymanFan]

I thought Niang got injured in the post season last season? If I recall that correctly, I don't think your conclusion is accurate. Let me take the best player off any team in the NCAA Tournament and I think it becomes very difficult for that team to make it to the Sweet 16.

Are you sure? I was under the impression that whoever ISU rolled out in March to beat OU and Kansas in the conference tournament was the same team who lost in Round One of the Dance. If there were any injuries during those 5 days in between, I didn't know about them. Regardless, they were not going to win 6 games, or 4 for that matter because they never figured out how to not avoid a double-digit deficit in the first half of games. I don't now why they couldn't figure it out...perhaps they were more streaky than elite.

 

[usedtobe1]

I thought Niang got injured in the post season last season? If I recall that correctly, I don't think your conclusion is accurate. Let me take the best player off any team in the NCAA Tournament and I think it becomes very difficult for that team to make it to the Sweet 16.

Are you sure? I was under the impression that whoever ISU rolled out in March to beat OU and Kansas in the conference tournament was the same team who lost in Round One of the Dance. If there were any injuries during those 5 days in between, I didn't know about them. Regardless, they were not going to win 6 games, or 4 for that matter because they never figured out how to not avoid a double-digit deficit in the first half of games. I don't now why they couldn't figure it out...perhaps they were more streaky than elite.

Denver was off by a year. Niang was hurt in 2014 but ISU still made the Sweet 16 without him. Last year the Clones choked down the stretch and got beat by 14 seed UAB in the first round 60-59 by getting outscored 9-4 down the stretch. They had the lead 55-51 with a couple of minutes to go and lost it. It happens. They were healthy.

Sometimes I think it's better to lose early in the Big 12 tournament so a team has fresh legs for the NCAA.

 

[ousooners1baby]

Maybe we should implement a mandatory, positive intro, before each post. That way no feelings are hurt before posting the dumb ideas or thoughts you have about our team. Example:

(Title)Man, Cousins made some awesome passes against Hawaii!

Message: However, I thought his shot selection was very suspect while our lead was dwindling.

Would that work? Seriously, what has this board turned into? Where is the real drama? This is an undefeated team that is really fun to watch. However, they are not perfect nor should they be. But thats where the fans come in.

 

[opsooner]

I just can't understand how people can say things like "X player is trash." To me that is disrespectful to our players. If people want to only focus on the negatives that's certainly annoying to read, but I am okay with it. When people talk trash our players who are helping our team having an incredible season that is something else. I really think less of posters who do that or think they may have problems expressing themselves in how they post online.

I think all (hopefully) will agree that you shouldn't be calling a player "trash". However, I suspect that really rarely happens over the thousands and thousands of posts that come through. I tend to see more negative people say emotional things over one or two plays and generalize that the player "has regressed" or "he can't hit a FT" or something else that is emotion-based and not based on anything close to fact.