Sophomore Class

[daqman]

I see what you're saying, and agree to some extent.

But would you agree also that the lack of development, especially since Henson and Hill left, has been pretty evident?

It feels, to me, that a lot more players come in and show a lot of promise their Freshman year, then never seem to make the strides they need to become a really dependable basketball player.

I mean take out Hield, Cousins, and Spangler, and the lack of development becomes even MORE evident. However, I don't put a lot of stock into anything before them, but that 2016 team really should've been a launching point for OU to really make the gains in recruiting and become the really respectable program we all feel it can be. That just hasn't seemed to happen.

But really you can go down the list of players, starting with those Freshman and Sophomores on that 2016 team, and the development just hasn't been there

And now we're 5 season passed that. It feels like at least a few should have been developed or be developing more.

Excellent post. When you put it that way, it really exposes how abysmal Kruger's recruiting/development of players has been.
Just like his conference record/road conference record the last few years.

 

[skyvue]

tied for third with 3 other teams.

When the Sooners end up with, say, the sixth seed in the Big 12 (but tie for a higher spot in the conference standings), many posters insist we finished sixth, period. Any mention of the tie gets mocked.

But when we earn the third seed in the Big 12 tourney (ahead of teams we keep hearing have left us in their dust, like Tech, WVA and texas), suddenly the fact that we were tied in the standings is all that matters; those same posters refuse to give the team credit for earning the higher seed.

You'd almost think some posters are inclined always to take a negative view of the team. But surely not.

 

[AdaSooner]

I see what you're saying, and agree to some extent.

But would you agree also that the lack of development, especially since Henson and Hill left, has been pretty evident?

It feels, to me, that a lot more players come in and show a lot of promise their Freshman year, then never seem to make the strides they need to become a really dependable basketball player.

I mean take out Hield, Cousins, and Spangler, and the lack of development becomes even MORE evident. However, I don't put a lot of stock into anything before them, but that 2016 team really should've been a launching point for OU to really make the gains in recruiting and become the really respectable program we all feel it can be. That just hasn't seemed to happen.

But really you can go down the list of players, starting with those Freshman and Sophomores on that 2016 team, and the development just hasn't been there

And now we're 5 season passed that. It feels like at least a few should have been developed or be developing more.

I may have had more to say regarding the lack of player development than anyone on this board. It was a common theme with me two years ago. Like you, I was very unhappy that we blew our chance to take advantage of a Final Four run.

I couldn’t agree more that the decline in developing players and in recruiting began not long after Henson and Hill’s departure. I decided to give it a rest last season when recruiting (another favorite topic of mine) seemed to be getting better.

I have also seen signs that players like Kur, Harmon, Victor and Hill are improving. Not fast enough for impatient fans like me, but improving nevertheless.

That said, I’m not going to allow myself to get all bent out of shape when we lose to a team as good as Baylor. It was obvious our players were overmatched, but they didn’t give up. If we get thumped by teams we should beat, or if our players throw up their hands and quit on Lon, I’ll be back on my soapbox again. For now, I’m going to cheer them on and do my best to enjoy the ride.

 

[Price is Right]

I have no problem with us getting beat handily by a great Baylor team fellas.. some of you have implied my question/initial post in regards to development is tied specifically to one game. But cmon guys??? Throw the Baylor game out if that helps. Are we all saying we are happy with the player development going on? Even if we had won that game. The point is guys don't seem to be improving as much as I would've hoped or thought over the past few years.. I've loved this team through plenty of good as well as bad but when I see guys year after year who don't seem to reach their potential it opens the door for questions as to why. A question no one has really taken a stab at answering yet either. I was truly hoping some basketball minds on here could give some insight into their opinions why.

 

[Soonerinkc]

This thread is all too typical of the reaction we have seen before following a loss by an undeniable margin. It’s not like a 15 point beat down by the #2 ranked team in the country was unexpected. I actually thought it would be worse, and I’ll bet most of you did too.

Does that mean I’m happy when we lose, or that I’m 100% onboard with the direction of our basketball program? Of course not. I wanted to believe the current class of players would be better. The recruits we signed received a lot of praise, and to be honest I might have contributed to the hype. Now we know, our seven foot center and our sharp shooter from the wing are among a growing list of projects who aren’t ready to contribute this season.

There are also reasons to be optimistic. This team is not totally void of talent. I think it could be argued that some of our best players are underclassmen. One thing seems to be certain, our second unit plays better defense than our first unit. They bring a special brand of energy, hustle and determination to the floor we don’t always see with our starters. I’m encouraged by what I see.

I guess what I’m trying to say is that it could be worse. And, that’s certainly possible on Saturday when we play the Jayhawks in Lawrence. If we lose our next three games to TCU, OSU and K-State, that may be the time to start thinking about throwing in the towel.

I’m not there yet!

pretty much agree....I like LK...sure he's a great guy. I actually worked in Manhattan while he coached there and his kids went to the school I worked at. His wife is a great lady and was not precocious at all, she vol at the school all the time.

With that said...I also am ready for a change. OU once held the nation's longest post-season streak...we CAN be a top 30 every year program...getting top 15 every now and then.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Ada....who was the outside sharp shooter that we have?

 

[AdaSooner]

Ada....who was the outside sharp shooter that we have?

Anyang Garang. Remember what we were told about his ability to shoot from three? I can’t recall who posted it, but more than one source claimed he could really shoot from the perimeter.

Maybe he can. We just haven’t seen it yet.

 

[BoulderSooner]

When the Sooners end up with, say, the sixth seed in the Big 12 (but tie for a higher spot in the conference standings), many posters insist we finished sixth, period. Any mention of the tie gets mocked.

But when we earn the third seed in the Big 12 tourney (ahead of teams we keep hearing have left us in their dust, like Tech, WVA and texas), suddenly the fact that we were tied in the standings is all that matters; those same posters refuse to give the team credit for earning the higher seed.

You'd almost think some posters are inclined always to take a negative view of the team. But surely not.

Ding ding ding we have a winner.

 

[BoulderSooner]

tied for third with 3 other teams.

I'm not usually doom and gloom. I'm just tired of the normalizing of being average.

Let's be honest....we have been lucky getting into the tourney several times. We got in with a 7-11 conference record. The year before that it was 8-10. If we want to be honest, it isn't far fetched to say we should have missed the tourney 3 years in a row.

And yes, we were 3rd last year. what about before that?

7
9
9

Trae young aint walking through that door again. We've fallen far enough that even legit nba in state talent won't pick us.

Kruger did what he was supposed to. It is time to move on. the program is stale

OU wasn’t “lucky” to make the dance any of those years. OU was solidly in.

 

[NYC-Fool]

I get that people have different definitions or expectations for what a respectable program should look like... I think OU has been a respectable program for years under Lon.

Thats said, I can’t remember the last time I was truly excited about basketball season. Think about how excited football fans are for a potential run next year... when was the last time we felt that about hoops?

Maybe that feeling is just me, but when recruiting continues to trend lower, player development wanes, and fans start to justify that a 3rd place finish is good enough.... these aren’t great indicators, and it seems to me that it’s time for a change. I love Lon, but the program feels stale and needs new blood.

 

[BCSooners]

The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$

 

[AdaSooner]

The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$

In other words, we’re screwed!

 

[CoachTalk]

The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$

Which we all know none of that is going to happen.

But.

You have 2 more top 150 guards coming in. Bijan was there before he got “passed” bc of his summer missed.

 

[Stikboy]

Zero excitement. And I love OU basketball. I would say it’s a recruiting problem, and that’s a big part of it, but it’s also development. None of these projects Lon signs ever pan out. But then you have the 3 top 150 guys, and all of them look like they are less confident than when they got here. I wonder how they’d be doing under different coaches? Who knows. OU has the ability to every once in awhile pull off a good to great game and all the pumpers on this board are quick to shame everybody with their indignation, but there’s never any consistency. Don’t get me started on this crap stand around and dribble offense that can’t get a good shot off against an average defense. Sure maybe Buddy and Isaiah et all could run it, but why can’t Lon adjust his schemes to the players he has every year? The only reason OU beat a top 10 team is because a new transfer went completely out of his mind from beyond the arc. Don’t get me started on the defense...

Just because you say you’re ready for a change doesn’t mean you hate Lon...

 

[AdaSooner]

Which we all know none of that is going to happen.

But.

You have 2 more top 150 guards coming in. Bijan was there before he got “passed” bc of his summer missed.

Coach, I’m excited about Bijan. O’Garro may be a good get as well. But I remember when the standard was Top 100, and so do you. Have our coaches lowered the bar on the caliber of player they’re recruiting now?

OU has signed a few good players over the years who were just outside the Top 100, so I’m fine with that. Top 150 is another story entirely. Maybe that’s why we end up with more than our share of projects.

 

[skyvue]

The only reason OU beat a top 10 team is because a new transfer went completely out of his mind from beyond the arc.

And the only reason we didn't at least take Tech to OT is that Reaves' tying tip-in rimmed out, a shot he makes nine times out of 10. Funny how that works, right? Discounting big wins because they didn't fit some template you have doesn't fly. Mo was taking shots because he was red-hot; if he hadn't been, we can't know if someone else would have stepped up.

As for development, Doo certainly developed. Kuath has developed. Reaves has developed. Manek, though he's in a funk right now, has developed. Victor has developed in his short time in Norman. So has Hill. Are those last two finished products? No, but it's still early and they've deveoped.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Some of this. Is like the only reason a running back has good games is because he brakes a few long runs. Type of logic.


Lol

 

[Stikboy]

And the only reason we didn't at least take Tech to OT is that Reaves' tying tip-in rimmed out, a shot he makes nine times out of 10. Funny how that works, right? Discounting big wins because they didn't fit some template you have doesn't fly. Mo was taking shots because he was red-hot; if he hadn't been, we can't know if someone else would have stepped up.

As for development, Doo certainly developed. Kuath has developed. Reaves has developed. Manek, though he's in a funk right now, has developed. Victor has developed in his short time in Norman. So has Hill. Are those last two finished products? No, but it's still early and they've deveoped.

Got it. So, you think Kuath, Victor, and Hill have developed... Winner!

Manek the worst defender in the history of OU basketball. He is the least physical in the history of OU basketball. If he's not hitting 3s he's not much of a help. He has shown an inside offensive game(rarely) so that potential is there. But... Other than that, he seems to have developed into disappearing in OU's biggest games. It's his 4th year... he is what he is.

I'll tell you what's "funny how that works". You and a handful of others literally pouncing on every little negative thing a board member says. It would be one thing if the team was really good and it was just a bunch of hard to please negative nellies nitpicking. But it's not even close. OU is an average best Big 12 team and everyone can see but you. And it just seems to infuriate you and a few others who love to pounce on those who call it like it is.

You can spew and skew stats, argue till you're blue in face, but it doesn't change the overall fact of where OU is. Baylor, Texas Tech, Texas(this year) are proving that having a very good to great team is possible, even coming from a lesser overall program than OU. But here we are, winning JUST ENOUGH.... Well sorry, I'm tired of just enough. OU can do better. They have done much better in the past and could do it again.

 

[sanguinetti]

stikboy, basically as a Sooner hoops guy over Sooner football guy since the late 70's...i agree with you...

"He is the least physical in the history of OU basketball. If he's not hitting 3s he's not much of a help."

Brady DID get at least 2 really important O boards on the same possession against WVU.

really strong play.

i think we lose badly at AFH as usual and get on with it.

pretty good team, nothing great. lot easier to go down than up, these days. covid or no.

 

[skyvue]

I'll tell you what's "funny how that works". You and a handful of others literally pouncing on every little negative thing a board member says.

You'd prefer your posts go unresponded to by anyone who sees fallacies in your arguments? Sorry, that's not going to happen. Especially when you spew hyperbolic nonsense like "worst defender in the history of OU basketball."

Manek actually gets compliments on his defense pretty often from TV announcers. I tend to note them because of the steady stream of complaints from the Glass-Half-Empty crowd on this board. He's third on the team in rebounds, half a rebound per behind Kuath. He's second on the team in blocks, .3 per game behind Kuath. He leads the team in 3-pt %. He's had a bad three-game stretch, no doubt about it, but as was pointed out above, even in those games, he found ways to contribute. And if you think he's not better now than he was as a freshman, I don't know what to tell you.