Sophomore Class

[steverocks35]

Come on man. I agree with some of what you say Sky but other teams have whoever Manek is guarding attack us over and over again because he’s a bad defender. That’s not a slam, it just is what it is. I said going in to this year that he was our best player too so I’m far from a hater.

He’s also a averaging a career low 4.4 rebounds per game.

 

[skyvue]

Come on man. I agree with some of what you say Sky but other teams have whoever Manek is guarding attack us over and over again because he’s a bad defender. That’s not a slam, it just is what it is. I said going in to this year that he was our best player too so I’m far from a hater.

I'm not saying defense is his strength, but he's not nearly as bad as he gets depicted by the GHE crowd on this board. Of the posts you chose to respond to, you opted for the one that didn't say he was the worst defender in the history of OU basketball?

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an announcer compliment him on his defense over the past couple of seasons, I could enjoy a nice dinner on the town. Had i known we were going to cross over into "worst defender in the history of OU basketball" territory, I'd have kept a list of those comments from TV broadcasters.

 

[steverocks35]

I'm not saying defense is his strength, but he's not nearly as bad as he gets depicted by the GHE crowd on this board. Of the posts you chose to respond to, you opted for the one that didn't say he was the worst defender in the history of OU basketball?

If I had a dollar for every time I've heard an announcer compliment him on his defense over the past couple of seasons, I could enjoy a nice dinner on the town. Had i known we were going to cross over into "worst defender in the history of OU basketball" territory, I'd have kept a list of those comments from TV broadcasters.

Yeah and Fran Fraschilla said our big three going into this year were Reaves, Manek, and, wait for it, Williams. Announcers don’t know much of anything.

 

[skyvue]

Yeah and Fran Fraschilla said our big three going into this year were Reaves, Manek, and, wait for it, Williams. Announcers don’t know much of anything.

And fans do?

Announcers may not be in a position to make predictions about any given team -- that would take serious homework to be that familiar before the season with all of the teams they cover. (And some posters on this board were predicting big things for Williams, too, citing the growth that generally happens for juco transfers between their junior and senior seasons.)

But announcers know what they're watching while calling a game -- especially a former coach like Fraschilla -- and I'd opt for his opinion over a fan's hyperbolic overreaction any time. I've criticized Fraschilla before, but he knows basketball better than most, if not all, of us.

 

[steverocks35]

And fans do?

Announcers may not be in a position to make predictions about any given team -- that would take serious homework to be that familiar before the season with all of the teams they cover. (And some posters on this board were predicting big things for Williams, too, citing the growth that generally happens for juco transfers between their junior and senior seasons.)

But announcers know what they're watching while calling a game -- especially a former coach like Fraschilla -- and I'd opt for his opinion over a fan's hyperbolic overreaction any time. I've criticized Fraschilla before, but he knows basketball better than most, if not all, of us.

Yes I would say that fans who have watched every single OU game for years and know all our players, even the redshirts, inside and out know more than the announcers. Half the time the announcers can’t even get the names right. I laugh at how many plays they get wrong all the time.

In fact, during Fran’s preseason rundown of our team he touted Williams’s great defense. Every person on this board would roll their eyes at that statement. But it’s even worse when it’s an announcer that is even less familiar with the team than Fran.

 

[Stikboy]

You'd prefer your posts go unresponded to by anyone who sees fallacies in your arguments? Sorry, that's not going to happen. Especially when you spew hyperbolic nonsense like "worst defender in the history of OU basketball."

Manek actually gets compliments on his defense pretty often from TV announcers. I tend to note them because of the steady stream of complaints from the Glass-Half-Empty crowd on this board. He's third on the team in rebounds, half a rebound per behind Kuath. He's second on the team in blocks, .3 per game behind Kuath. He leads the team in 3-pt %. He's had a bad three-game stretch, no doubt about it, but as was pointed out above, even in those games, he found ways to contribute. And if you think he's not better now than he was as a freshman, I don't know what to tell you.

No see that's the thing what you call a fallacy is actually the truth. I made a macro-comment relating to the state of OU basketball overall. You then go off on these mini-tangents trying to prove what exactly, I have no idea, for example.."third on the team in rebounds, .3 behind Kuath." What is that supposed to prove to me? That he is a worse rebounder than Kuath, a below average rebounder? I could go on and on.

I don't want posts to go unresponded to. There are alot of posters on this board that bring great insight. But i'm tired of trying to argue the sky is not orange. But, it is a message board, keep doing your thing! Have a wonderful day...Beat Kansas!

 

[Salt City Sooner]

And the only reason we didn't at least take Tech to OT is that Reaves' tying tip-in rimmed out, a shot he makes nine times out of 10. Funny how that works, right? Discounting big wins because they didn't fit some template you have doesn't fly. Mo was taking shots because he was red-hot; if he hadn't been, we can't know if someone else would have stepped up.

As for development, Doo certainly developed. Kuath has developed. Reaves has developed. Manek, though he's in a funk right now, has developed. Victor has developed in his short time in Norman. So has Hill. Are those last two finished products? No, but it's still early and they've deveoped.

Not to mention 10 missed free throws, but I guess Lon should have schemed those better.

 

[daqman]

Zero excitement. And I love OU basketball. I would say it’s a recruiting problem, and that’s a big part of it, but it’s also development. None of these projects Lon signs ever pan out. But then you have the 3 top 150 guys, and all of them look like they are less confident than when they got here. I wonder how they’d be doing under different coaches? Who knows. OU has the ability to every once in awhile pull off a good to great game and all the pumpers on this board are quick to shame everybody with their indignation, but there’s never any consistency. Don’t get me started on this crap stand around and dribble offense that can’t get a good shot off against an average defense. Sure maybe Buddy and Isaiah et all could run it, but why can’t Lon adjust his schemes to the players he has every year? The only reason OU beat a top 10 team is because a new transfer went completely out of his mind from beyond the arc. Don’t get me started on the defense...

Just because you say you’re ready for a change doesn’t mean you hate Lon...

That's not the only reason. One of WV's best payers decided to leave the team a few days before the trip to Oklahoma. That was not the #9 team in the nation we played. That was the #9 team in the nation minus Tshiebwe.

 

[BoulderSooner]

That's not the only reason. One of WV's best payers decided to leave the team a few days before the trip to Oklahoma. That was not the #9 team in the nation we played. That was the #9 team in the nation minus Tshiebwe.

Rip OU any chance you get very on brand for you

 

[Salt City Sooner]

That's not the only reason. One of WV's best payers decided to leave the team a few days before the trip to Oklahoma. That was not the #9 team in the nation we played. That was the #9 team in the nation minus Tshiebwe.

Yeah, we beat WVU by 4 points & they didn’t have Oscar. Yesterday, we lost @ KU by 4 & didn’t have Manek & Hill, so OBVIOUSLY, we’d have won had those 2 been available, right? RIGHT?

That’s what I thought.

 

[TINY]

Yeah, we beat WVU by 4 points & they didn’t have Oscar. Yesterday, we lost @ KU by 4 & didn’t have Manek & Hill, so OBVIOUSLY, we’d have won had those 2 been available, right? RIGHT?

That’s what I thought.

Let me imagine waqman’s response:

“No because clearly Kansas was overlooking ou without Manek and hill. With them healthy, ku would been more motivated and still would win. Ou sux.”

 

[daqman]

Sorry the truth distresses you so much. Don't fret. You'll get to pump sunshine again soon. Surely we can beat one of the conference bottom feeders in the next 3 games.

 

[thebigabd]

The only ways recruiting will make a huge leap:
1) fans in the stands
2) LK turns to dirty tactics
3) kids & their parents/handlers don’t want $$

You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.

 

[CoachTalk]

You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.

Im not going back to check. But majority of guys you post are wash outs. Its easy to pick hindsight.

 

[thebigabd]

Im not going back to check. But majority of guys you post are wash outs. Its easy to pick hindsight.

I don't recruit players for a living. That's what Lon makes millions of dollars to do. The entire crux of this argument is that LON should know.

It's inexcusable for LON and the staff. That's my position. Don't focus on who I found on the internet. Focus on who Lon didn't find. Focus on the fact that Lon went to Australia for a guy who can't get on the floor, Finland for a guy who couldn't get on the floor, etc when high-level players were in his damn backyard.

Don't make this about me. Don't distract. That's all I ask.

Even from the internet I picked Devonte Bandoo.... Taz Sherman... Daquon Jefferies... Mason Jones.... Alonzo Verge, and others that turned out to be really good players.... I could damn near make an argument that including the washouts I recruit players within 4 hours of campus better than Lon. And yea, some of them have been total trash... But guess what, lets not act like Lon doesn't sign guys like that too.

You hold me accountable for something you don't hold Lon accountable for. Think about how absurd that position is.

 

[CoachTalk]

I don't recruit players for a living. That's what Lon makes millions of dollars to do. The entire crux of this argument is that LON should know.

It's inexcusable for LON and the staff. That's my position. Don't focus on who I found on the internet. Focus on who Lon didn't find. Focus on the fact that Lon went to Australia for a guy who can't get on the floor, Finland for a guy who couldn't get on the floor, etc when high-level players were in his damn backyard.

Don't make this about me. Don't distract. That's all I ask.

Even from the internet I picked Devonte Bandoo.... Taz Sherman... Daquon Jefferies... Mason Jones.... Alonzo Verge, and others that turned out to be really good players.... I could damn near make an argument that including the washouts I recruit players within 4 hours of campus better than Lon. And yea, some of them have been total trash... But guess what, lets not act like Lon doesn't sign guys like that too.

You hold me accountable for something you don't hold Lon accountable for. Think about how absurd that position is.

Its not about you. You dont give him credit for the ones that do pan out. So all I do is ask the same.

Coach Cal and Coach K miss as well and they are paying for 5 stars.

 

[thebigabd]

Its not about you. You dont give him credit for the ones that do pan out. So all I do is ask the same.

Coach Cal and Coach K miss as well and they are paying for 5 stars.

Of course I do... Lon does an excellent job recruiting high school kids in Oklahoma. It's the mainstay of the program. It's the backbone. Any recruiting strategy should start with that.

Brady Manek, Trae Young, Kristian Doolittle, etc. And then guys from the area like Harmon, Hield. Lots of super-stars in that group. I know I am leaving players out. But OU has done an incredible job with local talent.

My strategy has ALWAYS called for a combination of the best local high school talent from Oklahoma, Texas, etc in combination with the best juco talent to fill gaps, add talent, etc.

That's why I always say Lon went to Australia or Finland for some random dude when he had someone right here.... The "rest" of his recruiting strategy doesn't match what he does well. All he has to do is diligently recruit local jucos in combination with his ability to recruit local high school talent and OU will be rocking and rolling.

Missing is one thing... not even trying is another.

 

[BCSooners]

You forgot option #4..... OU hires a coach who knows how to recruit to Oklahoma. Of course we sign good players, because we are OU, but top to bottom roster management has been poor.

Case and point...

Class of 2019.

OU goes to Australia and signs Anyang Garang. In Big 12 play this year Anyang has the following stats: 0 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, and 0 minutes. He can't get on the floor.

2.5 hours from Norman was Taz Sherman, at Collin County CC. OU did not offer this player and he went to WVU. In Big 12 play this year Taz has the following stats:

Texas: 17 points
OSU: 20 points
OU: 19 points
ISU: 10 points
KU: 2 points (14 minutes)

Averaging 14 a game against Big 12 competition.

If you scout well enough to identify a good player 2 hours from your campus, instead of signing someone who can't play from Australia, OU is a significantly better team RIGHT NOW.

1 major impact player is the difference between losing a close game to Texas Tech, a close game to Kansas, etc and losing. You got 0 from Garang. We may have gotten from 15 from Taz.

It's not defensible.

Look at this 2019 recruiting class:
Issanza - Can't get on the floor
Garang - Can't get on the floor
Merritt - Couldn't get on the floor and transferred
Harmon - Good player
Alondes - Good player
Victor - Good player

At some point the administration at OU will realize OU's recruiting problem.... I honestly can't believe more of you don't recognize it either. I know you guys would rather defend Lon than agree with me, but it's just so obvious. It's right there. I don't know why you can't see it. But eventually someone will, and OU will bring in someone who understands, and OU will become mor relevant in the Big 12 again.

If he would’ve had Sherman over Gibson then OU loses that game. Also OU’s best player is a transfer. This isn’t 2005, juco isn’t the same since prep school & grant waivers started happening. Also getting mad that the 11-13th players don’t get on the floor is laughable.

And another thing I’ve beat to death is Juco kids 90% of the time come with baggage, which LK won’t put up with.

 

[thebigabd]

If he would’ve had Sherman over Gibson then OU loses that game. Also OU’s best player is a transfer. This isn’t 2005, juco isn’t the same since prep school & grant waivers started happening. Also getting mad that the 11-13th players don’t get on the floor is laughable.

And another thing I’ve beat to death is Juco kids 90% of the time come with baggage, which LK won’t put up with.

Sherman came in the same class as Anyang Garang. Not Gibson... We went to Australia to recruit a guy who can't play and didn't offer a kid next door who is doing well. He has no known baggage.... This is not a defensible position.

Also, Gibson has followed up that game with a 5 point game and a 3 point game, much closer to his season average.

 

[Sooner04]

Of course I do... Lon does an excellent job recruiting high school kids in Oklahoma. It's the mainstay of the program. It's the backbone. Any recruiting strategy should start with that.

Brady Manek, Trae Young, Kristian Doolittle, etc. And then guys from the area like Harmon, Hield. Lots of super-stars in that group. I know I am leaving players out. But OU has done an incredible job with local talent.

My strategy has ALWAYS called for a combination of the best local high school talent from Oklahoma, Texas, etc in combination with the best juco talent to fill gaps, add talent, etc.

That's why I always say Lon went to Australia or Finland for some random dude when he had someone right here.... The "rest" of his recruiting strategy doesn't match what he does well. All he has to do is diligently recruit local jucos in combination with his ability to recruit local high school talent and OU will be rocking and rolling.

Missing is one thing... not even trying is another.

Good post.

One note of caution: a lot of times, with JUCOs, you're discrediting the fact that they might not be able to qualify for enrollment at the University of Oklahoma. Not always, but some.

I think Lon has done a very poor job of raising the talent level here following the Final Four. I don't think we're deep enough.