Steven Pledger: Best OU wing guard since Hollis...

[pnkranger]

I mean this thread primarily to kick off a friendly discussion. Not sniping, but I think the stats, and his progression are going to play in his favor.

Could very well break OU record for most made three pointers in a career, about to pass 1,000 points for his career with 1+ years left, will have one of the top 30 scoring seasons in OU history this year, with a chance to improve next year, top 5 free throw percentage, etc...

Who since Hollis graduated has put up the career numbers Pledge has?

 

[Big Old Booger]

I mean this thread primarily to kick off a friendly discussion. Not sniping, but I think the stats, and his progression are going to play in his favor.

Could very well break OU record for most made three pointers in a career, about to pass 1,000 points for his career with 1+ years left, will have one of the top 30 scoring seasons in OU history this year, with a chance to improve next year, top 5 free throw percentage, etc...

Who since Hollis graduated has put up the career numbers Pledge has?

Well, my first thought is I don't think it's fair to put Pledger in the same class as Hollis because Hollis was so good at so many things. He was a very good scorer, a very good defender and an ample ball handler if not better. Not to mention he was clutch so many times hitting game-tying or game winning shots in big games.

Pledger is a good scorer as he has shown this year. His defense is improved and his ball handling is getting better, but he's not to Hollis level yet. Pledger may be a better 3 point shooter than Hollis, but Hollis was pretty good. Pledger needs a clutch shot and he's had 2 chances this season that he's missed. I'm certain he is going to hit more than one before he's done and will probably hit one this season.

But, I agree he is the best guard at OU since Hollis. Some pretty good players in that group who could have been in the discussion had they stuck around (McKenzie and Alexander) are 2 that come to mind. McKenzie was terrible at defense and was more 1 dimensional.

 

[thebigabd]

Pledger is 40-46 in his career at OU. I bet Price led OU to a little better than that.

With that being said, Pledger is good.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Pledger is 40-46 in his career at OU. I bet Price led OU to a little better than that.

With that being said, Pledger is good.

Best since...

 

[bocabull]

Pledger is doing a great job ... but ... Willie Warren was considerably better.

 

[WTSooner]

Pledger is 40-46 in his career at OU. I bet Price led OU to a little better than that.

With that being said, Pledger is good.

I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is just dumb. And you aren't the first poster to try an directly tie OU's record to how good or not Steven Pledger is.

I suppose Kevin Love sucks because Minnesota is only 12-12 on the year?

I suppose Sam Bradford sucks because the Rams were only 2-14 this year?

I could do this all day long. Some times, good players play on bad teams. It happens. The Lakers would barely make the playoffs right now, and they have one of the game's all time greats on their roster.

 

[TheGimper]

Pledger is doing a great job ... but ... Willie Warren was considerably better.

This.

 

[WTSooner]

Pledger is doing a great job ... but ... Willie Warren was considerably better.

Pledger as of today vs Warren's best stats from either season (meaning, I took his best stat for each category, regardless of season).

PPG:
Pledger - 17.6
Warren - 16.3

FG%:
Pledger - 47.7%
Warren - 47.3%

3FG%:
Pledger - 44.9%
Warren -37.2%

FT%:
Pledger - 89.7%
Warren - 79.5%

Rebounds/game:
Pledger - 4.0
Warren - 3.3

Steals/game:
Pledger - 1.0
Warren - 1.1

Assist to TO Ratio:
Pledger - 1.0/1
Warren - 1.4/1

You were saying?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

i think WW was better all around when healthy but if pledger keeps playing like he has this year, and keeps improving like he has been then it will be no contest

 

[NickZepp]

Warren was more talented but I'm not sure if he was ever better as his career went on at OU. Pledger continues to improve his game, I think if he gets a little better at taking the ball to the hole the sky is really the limit with Pledger.

 

[TheGimper]

Pledger as of today vs Warren's best stats from either season.
You were saying?

To honestly believe that Steven Pledger is better than Willie Warren - if Willie had stayed 4 years at OU (like Pledger will be) and stayed healthy his entire career - is rather ignorant.

 

[WTSooner]

To honestly believe that Steven Pledger is better than Willie Warren - if Willie had stayed 4 years at OU (like Pledger will be) and stayed healthy his entire career - is rather ignorant.

Stats don't lie. Unless you can tell me why they don't tell "the whole story". Stop talking about potential. All we can do is measure on the floor production. And WW had better talent to help him out as well. I can't help it some of you refuse to see just how good of a season Pledger is having. His percentages are fantastic. If the season ended today, I could argue Pledger just had one of the top 2 three point shooting seasons in OU history.

 

[WTSooner]

And for the record, I'm not arguing that Pledger is clearly the winner here. I'm just arguing it's too close to make the comment that Boca made.

 

[garyeb2]

I'm sorry, but this sort of thing is just dumb. And you aren't the first poster to try an directly tie OU's record to how good or not Steven Pledger is.

I suppose Kevin Love sucks because Minnesota is only 12-12 on the year?

I suppose Sam Bradford sucks because the Rams were only 2-14 this year?

I could do this all day long. Some times, good players play on bad teams. It happens. The Lakers would barely make the playoffs right now, and they have one of the game's all time greats on their roster.

Really and truely, I'm more concerned about getting my onions in at the right time than I am in other people's opinions on Pledger. But, I do find it frustrating that so many people ignore rational thought processes when making an arguement

You and other want to continually recite statistics as somehow representing proof of some opinion. Here is the problem. Statistics from losing efforts can range from skewed to virtually meaningless. Statistics from a competitive competition could and can be relavant.

Just purely for examples sake. In the St loius game, half of Pledger's points came after the game was decided. After the defensive pressure backed off. After the subs came in. In the OSU game, more than half of Blair's 20 came after the game slipped out of reach. And some people wanted to make a big deal out of it.

Losing game stats are more likely to be a misrepresentation of a players contribution than not. Stats have to be considered in the context in which they were earned. Failure to tie the stats to the context in which they were earned is a shallow analysis of statictical data.

Since so many of Pledger's stats were compiled in losing efforts, it is quite reasonable to veiw those conclusions drawn from those stats with a healthy degree of skeptcism. And of course, the same can be said of player's stats accumulated in lopsided wins.

 

[WTSooner]

Losing game stats are more likely to be a misrepresentation of a players contribution than not. Stats have to be considered in the context in which they were earned. Failure to tie the stats to the context in which they were earned is a shallow analysis of statictical data.

I don't completely disagree with you, but Pledger has done PLENTY this season when games were still close. Mizzou didn't "put their scrubs in" last night. I'm not trying to evaluate Pledger based on a single play, or a couple of minutes of playing time (like you did earlier today). I'm not even trying to only use OOC or conference games. I'm looking at his entire season. What more can I look at? You can't totally dismiss stats b/c they are all contrary to the opinion you are trying to make.

 

[TheGimper]

Stats don't lie. Unless you can tell me why they don't tell "the whole story". Stop talking about potential. All we can do is measure on the floor production. And WW had better talent to help him out as well. I can't help it some of you refuse to see just how good of a season Pledger is having. His percentages are fantastic. If the season ended today, I could argue Pledger just had one of the top 2 three point shooting seasons in OU history.

Which is why Pledger started over an injured Willie Warren during his freshman season here.

Don't get me wrong, I love Pledger and he is having a fantastic season. But if Willie were still here there would be no way he would ever lose his starting job to Pledger. Willie tore it up in the D-League. And that's harder competition then Pledger has been facing.

 

[garyeb2]

I don't completely disagree with you, but Pledger has done PLENTY this season when games were still close. Mizzou didn't "put their scrubs in" last night. I'm not trying to evaluate Pledger based on a single play, or a couple of minutes of playing time (like you did earlier today). I'm not even trying to only use OOC or conference games. I'm looking at his entire season. What more can I look at? You can't totally dismiss stats b/c they are all contrary to the opinion you are trying to make.

I think that I just said "view with a skeptical eye", not dimiss. I'm not the one that uses pure stats as proof of my opinion. It is others that do that. I'm just saying that when someone comes up (Pledger averages 17.8 per game,therefore, he is a great player) that makes no sense to me. Some guy that average 15 or even 12 could be a much better player. It all depends on the context those points were scored.

 

[DenverSooner]

Which is why Pledger started over an injured Willie Warren during his freshman season here.

Don't get me wrong, I love Pledger and he is having a fantastic season. But if Willie were still here there would be no way he would ever lose his starting job to Pledger. Willie tore it up in the D-League. And that's harder competition then Pledger has been facing.

They would both start if they were both currently at OU.

 

[TheGimper]

They would both start if they were both currently at OU.

I knew someone would say this. Yes, Pledge would start over Cam at the 3. But that wasn't my point. In this hypothetical scenario, it's about battling for the 2 spot. Which, if Willie had stayed it would have remained his.

 

[stoops4pres]

Well, my first thought is I don't think it's fair to put Pledger in the same class as Hollis because Hollis was so good at so many things. He was a very good scorer, a very good defender and an ample ball handler if not better. Not to mention he was clutch so many times hitting game-tying or game winning shots in big games.

Pretty accurate analysis of Hollis' career. He also stepped up big for us his sophomore year when he took over the PG role after JR Raymond's dismissal.

It's not a knock on Pledger that his overall game isn't on Hollis' level... Hollis was a remarkable college player that ended up winning conference player of the year over former greats like TJ Ford and Hinrich/Collison. No OU guard has been on his level since.

But, I agree he is the best guard at OU since Hollis. Some pretty good players in that group who could have been in the discussion had they stuck around (McKenzie and Alexander) are 2 that come to mind. McKenzie was terrible at defense and was more 1 dimensional.

Bringing back some bad memories with them transferring haha... I really would've liked to see how both players would've turned out had they stayed, and for different reasons. I really liked the grit Alexander displayed on the court; he was a fantastic rebounder for his size. And McKenzie was an awesome shooter that had the tools to be a very effective player at both guard spots.

I also think Terrell Everett deserves mention as well.