Team Makeup vs Theory

A couple things come to mind at this point, but one point sticks out:

This is a great problem to have. Pledger is (or at least seems to be) a natural scorer, and has shown signs of having what it takes to become an above average defender. Crocker is a senior with the ability to go off on the offensive end, all while locking it down on the defensive end, and hopefully teaching the young pups how to do the same.
 
The other thing is that experienced guys tend to communicate better on defense and know the schemes better. Even if you aren't directly seeing it in a stats line they will make you a better team. This may end up being how RW keeps his minutes. Croc frankly isn't even at risk of losing his minutes. I still think that right now he is our second best player.
 
Croc frankly isn't even at risk of losing his minutes. I still think that right now he is our second best player.


I agree. And the fact that Capel is considering playing him at the 4 spot in certain situations speaks to both sides of the argument. Crock is a player that needs to be on the floor, and we've got a lot of supplementary firepower that need minutes.

As I said, this is a good problem to have!
 
OK, fair enough. To be honest, I sit in that arena game after game and never really noticed this outstanding defensive presence everyone is talking about. Strikes me, as a label that gets put on some players. Sort of like the age old he/she has a great personality. In other words, really a decent person but not that great looking.

I could be way wrong. It will give me something to specifically watch, which is interesting since I started the discussion to learn more.

This seems like a graceful enough place to exit the discussion so we don't degenerate into the ways of other boards
 
Look for who is doing a good job on help side and isn't missing assignments and you will see Crocker.
 
MO- I agree with you to a degree. "He's a great defender" tends to be overused. However, some of the things he brings aren't tangible (i.e. team attitude and confidence when he's on the floor) or blatantly obvious unless you're really looking AND listening to calls, rotations, etc.

Plus, I watched him shut down Manny Harris with my own eyes, and that was pretty darn convincing!
 
To truly appreciate Tony, you have to watch him on the defensve end.
 
Decent enough discussion. Thanks

Not sure how I missed this discussion, but I'm kinda late to the party.

mo...I'll try to answer your original question as best as I can without getting into the Crocker debate. You are right that it only makes sense for the discussion to trend that way, but I have started threads before hoping for one thing only to wind up very frustrated.

First of all, the question about the 2 and 3 being interchangeable...I think I'm in the minority here, but I don't think that they are. I think in a vacuum you could say that, but in reality they are different positions. If you are just drawing up plays, then yes, you could say they are basically the same position...the number 2 and the number 3 would do a lot of the same things on a dry erase board. But a far as I can tell, there are two main factors that keep them from being the same position.

Before I mention those, keep in mind that this is all in the context of a starting lineup...with the way small-ball has taken hold at every level of basketball, this doesn't apply to situational lineups. Anyway, the first reason I think they are different is because of defense. Most teams have at least one perimeter player with good size/length, and invariably that guy plays the 3. So to matchup, you have to have a rangy guy who can defend them. Just as an example, the White-Price-Ere backcourt couldn't have gotten away with playing another guy in the 6'2" or under range alongside Hollis and Quannas. You have to be able to match up. And sometimes, that is the only reason one guy plays the 3 while another guy plays the 2...just size.

The other reason is connected to that one a little bit, but generally speaking, the 3 is a less creative offensive position. You just aren't gonna see many guys in college who play the three and get assists or whatever. They are usually a more prototypical "wing" while the guy you have play the 2 is more of a "guard." I hope the distinction I'm making here is coming across. Part of the reason for this is a consequence of the size required to play the position. The taller a guy is, the less common it is for you to find one who has a really strong handle. But the part I think we overlook to often is that you can only have so many guys out on the court who play "on the ball." Just look at WW as an example. He did a good job last year for us playing off the ball (in this case it was because Blake got so many touches). But you probably didn't have those flashes of his potential when he was off the ball, more than likely it was when he was making plays off the dribble.

So besides the need to match up physically with opposing lineups, and besides the general differences in the taller players, there is also a basic balance in a lineup of players...just like you don't expect everyone on the team to be able to play the high post and low post, you can't expect all perimeter players to play like point guards. I hope that made sense.

In the lineup you proposed, I'm guessing that Pledger would actually play the 3. He has better size than Willie, and plays off the ball almost exclusively. Honestly, I think this could be a solid lineup at times, but I also agree with most of the other posters that Crock is still playing close to 30 minutes a game this year.
 
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