Thoughts after 9 hours of practice

[garyeb2]

There is a big difference in saying Grooms and Arent were signed to be backup players, and saying Grooms and Arent were signed to compete, but will likely be backups. BIG difference.

I think a lot of us tend to be reserved when it comes to JUCO's, b/c a lot of them a) take a year to adjust to D1 basketball, and b) simply don't have the talent to be definitive starters on decent/good D1 teams. I know that may sound harsh, but it's what a lot of us have seen play out in recent years.

Take Arent for example. I like the kid. I liked signing him. But Sam is already reporting that he has a ways to go in terms of adjusting to the speed and physicality of D1 and the Big 12. That probably means, at least to start the year, that he comes off the bench. AND THAT IS FINE. Somebody has to come off the bench. Next season, we'll likely have 3 or so top 100 type kids coming off the bench. That is a good thing.

I don't want to be confusing. So I'll clarify. As far as Grooms and Blair. That cake is baked. Grooms is the starter. Sam will see that too in short time.

Arent is a different deal. For either of them it isn't the speed of the game. They were both outstanding juco's and were "faster" than the juco game. So, that isn't such a big step for them. For Casey it is a strenght issue moreso than I thought it would be. He is getting shoved around after establishing a defensive or rebounding position. That won't render him totally ineffective. He will give solid/productive minutes. But, he won't start in front of Fitz. And I'm dissapointed about that.

 

[garyeb2]

You accomplished very little, except confirm what I implied in my initial response. I never called you a jerk, I said that your actions made you look like one. But if the jerk moniker fits, wear it!

I admitted that I could have been wrong about Pledger. If he blisters the nets this season, will you be man enough to fess up, too? Judging by your track record of criticizing our players instead of looking for the positives they bring to the court, I doubt it.

Is it possible for you to refrain from making broad sweeping statements that are represented as truth. I do not have a track record of being critical of "our" players. I have limited my critique to Blair, Pledger, and Fitz. They were starters on a very bad team. We lost so many games because so many of the opponents were able to take advantage of those three's limitations and weaknesses.

That is my arguement. If you want to dispute that arguement, offer up some edvidence. But, you can not. Can you?

 

[AdaSooner]

I don't recall the discussions about Arent starting over Fitz this season. Maybe I missed that thread.

Keep in mind that Casey wanted to redshirt this year, which likely means that even he didn't think he would be ready to compete at the D-1 level. Problem is, OU doesn't have the luxury of letting a 6' 10 kid with a high motor watch from the bench. We need his size. But more importantly, we need the depth he'll bring to the post.

 

[WTSooner]

Is it possible for you to refrain from making broad sweeping statements that are represented as truth. I do not have a track record of being critical of "our" players. I have limited my critique to Blair, Pledger, and Fitz. They were starters on a very bad team. We lost so many games because so many of the opponents were able to take advantage of those three's limitations and weaknesses.

That is my arguement. If you want to dispute that arguement, offer up some edvidence. But, you can not. Can you?

I would dispute that a couple of ways. Just my opinions, but here is what I see.

1. Coaching. Everybody on this board knows what I think of Jeff Capel as a practice and game day coach. Not much. LK on the other hand is a lot more like Kelvin in that regards. LK should be able to get close to 100% out of most of his players. That is how he coaches. Maximize talents.

2. Last year we had to play small. Our most common starting lineup had Cam starting at the 4. That won't happen this year. Osby may not be huge, but he is a better interior defender and rebounder than Cam. This also allows Cam to move back out to the perimeter where he belongs. Addition by subtraction, kind of.

3. We won't be any worse at the pg spot, and if Grooms beats out Blair, we may be better. I think we'll see significant improvement from Pledger, so we get better at SG. Biggest jump in most players is between frosh/soph seasons, so Cam should be much improved, even if I'm not as high on him as some are. Osby was suppose to be our best player last year. IF that is true, he has to be considered an improvement. And I think Fitz improves from coaching and from having Osby inside with him, and not Cam.

Nobody is suggesting we're a great team. We aren't. I just see plenty of opportunities for this to be a solid team that wins a lot of games. And by a lot, upside is probably just enough to make the Dance, maybe a couple more. Capel couldn't put a good defensive unit on the floor even when he had athletes/length at every position. Even with Blake. I think this OU team has a chance to be better defensively than any team Capel put on the floor, save maybe his first team. That alone will result in several more wins.

 

[AdaSooner]

Is it possible for you to refrain from making broad sweeping statements that are represented as truth. I do not have a track record of being critical of "our" players. I have limited my critique to Blair, Pledger, and Fitz. They were starters on a very bad team. We lost so many games because so many of the opponents were able to take advantage of those three's limitations and weaknesses.

That is my arguement. If you want to dispute that arguement, offer up some edvidence. But, you can not. Can you?

More correctly, you have a track record of getting on your soap box when a player fails to meet your expectations, and then beating a dead horse until there is no life left in your argument.

That still doesn't explain why you chose to respond the way you did to someone who has never (at least that I can recall) done anything to deserve your contempt? If my memory fails me, which it often does at my age, kindly point me to what I said or did.

 

[Tony]

Is it possible for you to refrain from making broad sweeping statements that are represented as truth. I do not have a track record of being critical of "our" players. I have limited my critique to Blair, Pledger, and Fitz. They were starters on a very bad team. We lost so many games because so many of the opponents were able to take advantage of those three's limitations and weaknesses.

That is my arguement. If you want to dispute that arguement, offer up some edvidence. But, you can not. Can you?

I cannot!

But speaking as someone who really doesn't care whether or not someone "denigrates" an OU basketball player, the issue is the almost comic snottiness of taking a post that someone has obviously put a lot of time and effort into and talking about how he's too dumb to think straight because of freaking confirmation bias.

 

[garyeb2]

More correctly, you have a track record of getting on your soap box when a player fails to meet your expectations, and then beating a dead horse until there is no life left in your argument.

That still doesn't explain why you chose to respond the way you did to someone who has never (at least that I can recall) done anything to deserve your contempt? If my memory fails me, which it often does at my age, kindly point me to what I said or did.

Only thing that I can figure is that you just took wrong.

 

[garyeb2]

I don't recall the discussions about Arent starting over Fitz this season. Maybe I missed that thread.

Keep in mind that Casey wanted to redshirt this year, which likely means that even he didn't think he would be ready to compete at the D-1 level. Problem is, OU doesn't have the luxury of letting a 6' 10 kid with a high motor watch from the bench. We need his size. But more importantly, we need the depth he'll bring to the post.

Oh, I guess someone needs to check the rule book. Casey has already had that greyshirt year. Doubt that leaves any room for a redshirt year on top of that.

 

[kellensooner]

Oh, I guess someone needs to check the rule book. Casey has already had that greyshirt year. Doubt that leaves any room for a redshirt year on top of that.

Actually you can do both.

 

[AdaSooner]

Actually you can do both.

Of course you can. I have no idea if Arent was a grayshirt? But, I'm reasonably certain a grayshirt simply means that he put his college career on hold by delaying his enrollment.

A redshirt season is an entirely different matter. When a player redshirts, he's using one of the five years the NCAA allows for all student athletes. That is, except in the case of someone like Jason White, who was given a sixth year for the time he lost due to his numerous injuries. A grayshirt doesn't count toward the number of years a player receives within the NCAA's rules.

I do know he wanted to redshirt, but can't recall where I read it. Maybe someone can refresh my memory about the discussion we had when Arent was signed. He was quoted in one of the articles I read that he wanted to sit out his first year at OU to get stronger and work on his game. Coach Kruger later nixed that idea. Anyone remember that article?

 

[garyeb2]

Yes, he was a greyshirt. He enrolled in juco for the spring semester after high school. That allowed him access to the weight room and practice facilities all that 1st spring and summer. He then joined the team the following fall semester.

He did that at the recomendation of his coach. He only weighed 165 lbs coming out of HS. It is a common tactic for late developing kids.

Even though there is no rule to prevent him from redshirting, The 5 yrs to play 4 rule still applies. And the clock starts from time of the 1st enrollment. If he were to redshirt, his clock would run out in the middle of his last season.

Casey wanting to redshirt is breaking news. I doubt that an article, comment, or quote can be produced verifying that assertion. Casey certainly knew his eligibility status as did Kruger.

 

[Sam]

Casey wanting to redshirt is breaking news. I doubt that an article, comment, or quote can be produced verifying that assertion. Casey certainly knew his eligibility status as did Kruger.

http://oklahoma.247sports.com/Board/86/6-10-Casey-Arent-Considing-Signing-with-OU--1990492

The OU Coaching staff was able to convince him that he did not need to redshirt, because the real issue for Arent was that he didn't feel he could get his degree in two years. The OU Coaches assured him that he could finish out his education even a year after his playing days and thus Arent is not against playing next year.

 

[AdaSooner]

Yes, he was a greyshirt. He enrolled in juco for the spring semester after high school. That allowed him access to the weight room and practice facilities all that 1st spring and summer. He then joined the team the following fall semester.

He did that at the recomendation of his coach. He only weighed 165 lbs coming out of HS. It is a common tactic for late developing kids.

Even though there is no rule to prevent him from redshirting, The 5 yrs to play 4 rule still applies. And the clock starts from time of the 1st enrollment. If he were to redshirt, his clock would run out in the middle of his last season.

Casey wanting to redshirt is breaking news. I doubt that an article, comment, or quote can be produced verifying that assertion. Casey certainly knew his eligibility status as did Kruger.

Are you calling me a liar? I read somewhere that he wanted to redshirt in the beginning, but thought better of it after talking to Kruger. I don't have to prove anything to you!

What is your deal? Do you have to work hard at being a total ass, or does it come naturally? One more word out of you and I will come out of retirement and ban you myself! Permanently!!!

 

[AdaSooner]

http://oklahoma.247sports.com/Board/86/6-10-Casey-Arent-Considing-Signing-with-OU--1990492

The OU Coaching staff was able to convince him that he did not need to redshirt, because the real issue for Arent was that he didn't feel he could get his degree in two years. The OU Coaches assured him that he could finish out his education even a year after his playing days and thus Arent is not against playing next year.

Thanks, Sam! I knew I read that somewhere, just couldn't recall the source.

 

[skyvue]

I've been taking part in online communities since the early 1990s, and one phenomenon that I've seen repeatedly (but have never seen anyone give a name to -- perhaps I should try to come up with something) is the member/participant/poster who eventually manages to rile up virtually every member of the community, at which point he either feigns innocence and insists he's merely misunderstood (no matter how many other posters have told him he's crossed a line -- numbers don't matter to this guy) or he becomes belligerent and defensive.

But somehow virtually every thread, every conversation he (in my experience, it's always a guy) participates in eventually come around to being about him. And not in a good way. But the poster in question doesn't seem to care that he's reviled or resented or disrespected, as long as he gets attention.

I really need to come up with a name for this kind of poster, because they crop up in virtually every online community at one time or another.

I'm reminded of a guy I knew in college. His name was Robert, and he lived in my dorm in Cate Center. I don't know what his issue was, but he refused to bathe. He really did stink to high heaven. And though he was genuinely well-liked, his stench was, of course, off-putting, and eventually people turned on him. Guys in the dorm even left signs on the door to his room, saying "Robert, take a bath. You stink."

Mean, I know, but understandable and even defensible, believe me. The guy was rank, and everyone had given him the benefit of the doubt for the longest time.

But you know, I think in some weird way, he enjoyed the attention he got for being offensive to be around. It was like he had no confidence that people would like him for who he was, so in some perverse way, being dirty and smelly was his thing, his hook, the thing he was known for, and if the attention he got was negative, at least it was attention.

Funny, I hadn't thought of that guy in years. I wonder what made me think of him.

 

[garyeb2]

Are you calling me a liar? I read somewhere that he wanted to redshirt in the beginning, but thought better of it after talking to Kruger. I don't have to prove anything to you!

What is your deal? Do you have to work hard at being a total ass, or does it come naturally? One more word out of you and I will come out of retirement and ban you myself! Permanently!!!

I understand that people like to say anything that pops into their head and not be challenged. People like you seem to just hate. I really didn't call you a liar. I just assumed that you misremembered.

So, let me get this straight. Your arguement was that he wanted to redshirt so as to have more time to increase his strength and improve his skills. And your evidence is that he was concerned about school work. That is pretty typical around here.

So, you really have the power to permanently ban me from from a basketball message board. You must be a really important guy.

From my perspective, I think you need to get you a short skirt and try out for the pom squad. It seeems that all you want to be is a yell leader for the "team".

I write the check. I buy the tickets. I go to the games. And I have my opinions. This message board is nothing to me other than a short term diversion following the coaching change. So, if you want to play Mr Big Boy while displaying the emotional maturity and stability of a 16 yr old, go ahead.

 

[garyeb2]

I've been taking part in online communities since the early 1990s, and one phenomenon that I've seen repeatedly (but have never seen anyone give a name to -- perhaps I should try to come up with something) is the member/participant/poster who eventually manages to rile up virtually every member of the community, at which point he either feigns innocence and insists he's merely misunderstood (no matter how many other posters have told him he's crossed a line -- numbers don't matter to this guy) or he becomes belligerent and defensive.

But somehow virtually every thread, every conversation he (in my experience, it's always a guy) participates in eventually come around to being about him. And not in a good way. But the poster in question doesn't seem to care that he's reviled or resented or disrespected, as long as he gets attention.

I really need to come up with a name for this kind of poster, because they crop up in virtually every online community at one time or another.


And before I sign off, I just have to break rule number one just this once. Posting on this board and becoming the target of some pseudo
I'm reminded of a guy I knew in college. His name was Robert, and he lived in my dorm in Cate Center. I don't know what his issue was, but he refused to bathe. He really did stink to high heaven. And though he was genuinely well-liked, his stench was, of course, off-putting, and eventually people turned on him. Guys in the dorm even left signs on the door to his room, saying "Robert, take a bath. You stink."

Mean, I know, but understandable and even defensible, believe me. The guy was rank, and everyone had given him the benefit of the doubt for the longest time.

But you know, I think in some weird way, he enjoyed the attention he got for being offensive to be around. It was like he had no confidence that people would like him for who he was, so in some perverse way, being dirty and smelly was his thing, his hook, the thing he was known for, and if the attention he got was negative, at least it was attention.

Funny, I hadn't thought of that guy in years. I wonder what made me think of him.

Before signing off, I have to break rule number one just this once. Posting on this board and then becoming the target of some pseudo intellectual pinhead is comical beyond belief. I know that you are a basketball dullard like many of the others. And I also know that you have them convinced otherwise. I wouldn't want to mess that up for you.

 

[Tony]

I'm trying to wrap my head around someone actually thinking that AdaSooner "just hates."

 

[skyvue]

Before signing off, I have to break rule number one just this once. Posting on this board and then becoming the target of some pseudo intellectual pinhead is comical beyond belief. I know that you are a basketball dullard like many of the others. And I also know that you have them convinced otherwise. I wouldn't want to mess that up for you.

Actually, I don't think you'll find a single poster here who thinks i know that much about basketball. I've never pretended to. I enjoy the game and I'm a huge OU fan, but I've never purported to be strong on X's and O's or to have been a talented player myself -- quite the opposite, in fact. Heck, I got cut from my eighth grade team after three or four practices. I'm a lousy athlete, and I couldn't coach a team of first-graders.

Sorry to burst that bubble for you.

As for the pseudo intellectual swipe -- I graduated from OU with a decent grade point average, so I guess that makes me reasonably well-educated, but I'm no genius, and I never pretended to be.

So, what else you got?

I'm not an admin on this board (which is probably for the best), but I have been an admin on other boards and an active participant in many other online communities, and based on my previous experiences, I'm guessing your time's winding down here. Enjoy the spotlight while it lasts, because I suspect you'll soon be looking for attention elsewhere.

 

[skyvue]

I'm trying to wrap my head around someone actually thinking that AdaSooner "just hates."

No kidding. Could he be further off the mark?