Tiny Gallon

[sperry]

I don't know about in January or February, but I remember it being reported by several people that TMG just move out of the dorms at Spring Break and never came back to school.

He posted his infamous "draft announcement" on Facebook. We dodged a huge bullet that Twitter wasn't much of a thing back then. That would have gone viral for sure.

 

[schoonerdriver]

He posted his infamous "draft announcement" on Facebook. We dodged a huge bullet that Twitter wasn't much of a thing back then. That would have gone viral for sure.

Probably wouldn't have been able to read most of it anyway.

 

[cvangild]

Glad someone finally pointed this out. It's an honest mistake, but I was tired of seeing it brought up as a contributing factor to the problems of that team.

I usually lurk rather than post, but here is my take on that team and their dynamics. You have three highly regarded guys who were pretty heavily recruited, although some of thr blue bloods were absent during the process, which probably should have raised a few more flags.

In Willie you had a very talented offensive player with a sizable ego and some maturity issues. His ego flared up from time to time his freshman year, but besides the Austin situation, was managed most of the time due to stronger leadership from upperclassmen and the presence of a player (Blake) that was undeniably a superior talent. I always figured that having a player that Willie couldn't realistically claim he was better than kept him in check, which was also needed to get the most out of him. After Blake and the leaders on that team left, I'm guessing Willie expected, and was probably told, that the team was his. IE: He'd be the Alpha of the team.

Enter TMG and Tiny.

In TMG, you had a guy with tremendous individual/1-on-1 talent. Some of the best I've seen around/at OU. Unfortunately, it also turns out he also had a tremendous attitude problem and a chip on his shoulder. Unlike Willie, I don't believe that TMG could be kept in check. Not by coaches or by other players. I know a lot of people characterize him as a bad person, (which I won't do because I don't know him) but I speculated it was more likely that he was just the type of kid that figured it's better to get his and do what he wants rather than allow anyone to tell him what to do. Anyone who got in the way of his thoughts/goals was just holding him down and therefore didn't matter. Despite his talent, it's easy to see that he probably shouldn't have been at OU because his mindset/attitude/stubbornness/lack of effort/whatever you want to call it disrupted the dynamics because he didn't have any intention of bowing down to Willie and was capable of leading other people down the same path as him. When you mix that kind of an attitude with the ability to get others to follow you, then that's a recipe for disaster on a young team.

Which brings me to Tiny. I believe Tiny had a ton of potential and talent. I think the problem with Tiny was that he was a big, imposing kid who looked the part of an alpha, but was really just a beta. Ultimately, I think Tiny was a good kid, but he lacked the maturity and guidance needed to keep him working hard and out of trouble. I'm guessing his history/background with TMG made it easy for him to follow TMG's lead, which hurt himself and the team. I thibk when things started going bad, he just did what he knew to do and went with tge flow. Like others here, I'm certain my not happy about the loan sutuation, but I don't really fault the kid either. Yes, it was wrong but I'm guessing he's not the first or the last to skirt the rules at the advice of someone he looked to for guidance (Oronde.) I think if he could have stuck around, he could have grown as a player and person and contributed to the team in a positive way. I think the voice of TMG and the addition of the investigation were just too much for him to overcome.

In the end, I think Willie was a talented kid who wasn't mature enough or strong enough to handle the leadership role he was handed/given. I don't think he was equipped to handle the challenges TMG introduced and I think the injuries were enough to convince him he shouldn't stick around OU any longer even though it probably would have done him good.

TMG was extremely talented, but couldn't be controlled. He was leaving one way or another and son he didn't care what was happening in the season.

Tiny was also very talented and I think he was a good kid that just got caught up in TMG's stuff. I think if he and Willie could or would have stuck around the program would have recovered and Tiny would have really flourished. But the investigation, regardless of how much he knew, sealed his fate.

On paper, that team was one of the most talented to hit the floor at the LNC, but having a young team with multiple egos, no true leader, and a sense of entitlement due to the program's recent success is too much to overcome.

But according to Gary, that team had great team chemistry!!! He knows more than all of us, so don't question him about it either.

 

[lk2183]

You made a lot of good points.
I think your comment about them being one of the most talented teams on paper is far from true though. Its completely the exact opposite. That freshmen class was terrible. That top 25 class had a bunch of kids that didn't do much their freshmen year in college. TMG wasn't even a top 25 player. Patillo being let go was a huge blow to that team. Just b/c we had 2 5 star players doesn't mean it was a talented team. We had 2 freshman starting and 2 others who gave good minutes. Willie was talented but hurt. Had that team made it another year with the addition of Clark...that would have been on paper one of the better ones. Not with 4 freshmen.

You might be right, but maybe I should have just worded it differently. Sorry for the confusion.

When I said that the team was one of the most talented on paper, I was only talking about looking at the roster of players from day one before we knew what was about to unfold. I certainly was not looking at/talking about the numbers they ended up producing in that first year and I don't know if them being freshmen negates their talent or potential. Based on the evaluations/supposed potential of those players and the evaluations of the players already on the team, I think most people at that time would have said that there was a lot to work with and/or be excited about despite the youth.

As I mentioned, the lack of true leadership really hurt that team and youth played a part in how that season went. However, as recent results have shown, it's not unprecedented for a team of relying on talented, young players to produce at a high level. It just didn't work out that way here. As for Patillo, I would assume that his presence on the TMG/Willie/Tiny team would have made things worse since he couldn't find a way to stick around/work with the Blake/Taylor/Austin team.

In any case, my intent was to point out that if you were comparing the rosters of two Sooner teams without any knowledge of what they would actually end up doing after a season starts, it would probably be tough to find another roster that exceeded the talent/supposed potential of that team. Again, only when you are looking at them both on paper because we all know what the result was. Going into the season, this is what we were looking at:

TMG: McD AA. Consensus 4 star ranked anywhere from 24th in the nation to 46th from all major services.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/tommy-mason-griffin

Willie: McD AA. Consensus 5 star ranked from 10th to 19th in nation from major services.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/willie-warren

Tiny: McD AA. Consensus 5 star ranked from 9th to 11th in nation from major services.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/keith-gallon

Pledger: 3-4 star ranked in top 125. Labeled as sharp shooter.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/steven-pledger

Fitz: 4 star ranked in top 100 in all major services. Below the rim, offensive minded post.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/andrew-fitzgerald

Crocker: 4 star. Top 75 guy. Experienced shooter with some slashing ability.

Cade: 2-3 star. Hustle/glue guy. Streaky shooter.

Wright: 4 star transfer. Limited, but serviceable big.

Willis: 3-4 star. Ranked in 125. Offensive minded string-bean.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/ray-willis

So you have three McDonalds AAs (two of which at the positions generally perceived as the most important on a team) and a mix of guys in role situations (some of whom had already produced at a decent level) who were almost all ranked in the top 125. The rest of the guys on that roster who weren't mentioned above didn't bring much to the table (neither did Willis really) but that's usually the case with most programs.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's tough to think of another Sooner team that had that much talent/potential in key roles on the same roster. At the very least, that team is a fine example of why you don't rely on the talent/potential on paper. Instead, it's smarter to find and sign the right fit, regardless of what the evaluators and other programs say about the player. Thank goodness we seem to have moved beyond that under Kruger.

PS - My apologies for the typos in my previous post. The phone doesn't always lead to the best results when typing something that long.

 

[SilliSooner]

What do you mean, in terms of getting the money to pay off whatever debt was keeping Tiny's transcript from being released?

How about anything legal and not against NCAA rules? Get a second job. Find a way to get a loan, even with horrible terms. Borrow from family. Sell something. Heck, sell one of Tiny's 5 cars. Have a fundraiser (if not against NCAA rules).

Let me get this straight. Did Tiny have five cars while he going to prep school? Even though he was a getting a scholarship that didn't pay everything at Oak Hill did they, the Academy, determine Gallon's parents financial capabilities were sufficient to bring him to their school.

How much was still owed on the tuition? Were Tiny's parents creditworthy or not? How is getting a loan from the bank or small loan company any different financially than the loan Oronde helped the Gallons get?

I have no idea about the financial situation of Tiny's parents but I think it was remiss of Oak Hill Academy to admit him if they felt they have to resorting to financial blackmail (withholding a transcript) in order to collect their balance. That's why we have a student loan program, so schools can't force students to commit crimes in order to graduate.

I don't compare this one bit to the Reggie Bush situation. Tiny's parents weren't cozying up to an agent and trying to enrich themselves with a house. They were just trying to pay off a prep school which may or may have not reneged on their original agreement.

 

[usedtobe1]

I never saw Tiny play in HS even though I refereed HS and AAU ball in the Houston area. I did see TMG. Tiny played at Humble as a freshman and at Atascocita as a sophomore before going to Oak Hill for his last 2 years of HS. He did continue to play AAU ball in the area. The Humble/Atascocita area is up by Lake Houston and isn't a bad area of town.

My source for Tiny was a parent of an AAU teammate.... worked where I did. He said Tiny was basically a good kid and wanted to stay at OU, but the loan deal forced him out. He was not a leader and was easily influenced and that TMG was bad for him. He didn't know any details about the loan but doubted if Tiny was in on the "negotiations". He just benefitted from it. He may have even been vaguely aware of it, but didn't think much about it because his stay at Oak Hill was paid for, too.

He really didn't cause any trouble at OU. Skyvue mentioned the suspension but it was just for 1 game when the loan investigation started and they determined an agent wasn't involved. Tiny could have been a really good player for OU especially if had stayed long enough for Kruger and his staff work with him for a year or two. As it was, the only 2 players from OU drafted higher than Tiny in the past 20 years were Blake and Najera (by 8 spots).

I contend it might have been a good thing he didn't cooperate with the NCAA. He may have known more than we think about the coaching staff's involvement (including Capel), and benefits provided to other players (e.g. Willie Warren).

Here's a good bio on him before the NBA draft if you're not familiar with his basketball credentials. I wish he had stayed because by all accounts he has matured a lot since then. http://www.nba.com/draft2010/prospects/tiny-gallon/

 

[luckyc1423]

how good would that team had been under sampson or kruger (assuming willie was healthy)?
Kinda fun to think about....

I believe Kruger and/or sampson installed enough discipline that either this team would have been really really good or everyone would have been kicked off the team

 

[Max Power]

how good would that team had been under sampson or kruger (assuming willie was healthy)?
Kinda fun to think about....

I believe Kruger and/or sampson installed enough discipline that either this team would have been really really good or everyone would have been kicked off the team

Either this, or most of them would have never been here in the first place

 

[bgrch1350]

You might be right, but maybe I should have just worded it differently. Sorry for the confusion.

When I said that the team was one of the most talented on paper, I was only talking about looking at the roster of players from day one before we knew what was about to unfold. I certainly was not looking at/talking about the numbers they ended up producing in that first year and I don't know if them being freshmen negates their talent or potential. Based on the evaluations/supposed potential of those players and the evaluations of the players already on the team, I think most people at that time would have said that there was a lot to work with and/or be excited about despite the youth.

As I mentioned, the lack of true leadership really hurt that team and youth played a part in how that season went. However, as recent results have shown, it's not unprecedented for a team of relying on talented, young players to produce at a high level. It just didn't work out that way here. As for Patillo, I would assume that his presence on the TMG/Willie/Tiny team would have made things worse since he couldn't find a way to stick around/work with the Blake/Taylor/Austin team.

In any case, my intent was to point out that if you were comparing the rosters of two Sooner teams without any knowledge of what they would actually end up doing after a season starts, it would probably be tough to find another roster that exceeded the talent/supposed potential of that team. Again, only when you are looking at them both on paper because we all know what the result was. Going into the season, this is what we were looking at:

TMG: McD AA. Consensus 4 star ranked anywhere from 24th in the nation to 46th from all major services.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/tommy-mason-griffin

Willie: McD AA. Consensus 5 star ranked from 10th to 19th in nation from major services.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/willie-warren

Tiny: McD AA. Consensus 5 star ranked from 9th to 11th in nation from major services.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/keith-gallon

Pledger: 3-4 star ranked in top 125. Labeled as sharp shooter.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/steven-pledger

Fitz: 4 star ranked in top 100 in all major services. Below the rim, offensive minded post.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/andrew-fitzgerald

Crocker: 4 star. Top 75 guy. Experienced shooter with some slashing ability.

Cade: 2-3 star. Hustle/glue guy. Streaky shooter.

Wright: 4 star transfer. Limited, but serviceable big.

Willis: 3-4 star. Ranked in 125. Offensive minded string-bean.
http://www.verbalcommits.com/players/ray-willis

So you have three McDonalds AAs (two of which at the positions generally perceived as the most important on a team) and a mix of guys in role situations (some of whom had already produced at a decent level) who were almost all ranked in the top 125. The rest of the guys on that roster who weren't mentioned above didn't bring much to the table (neither did Willis really) but that's usually the case with most programs.

Maybe I'm wrong, but it's tough to think of another Sooner team that had that much talent/potential in key roles on the same roster. At the very least, that team is a fine example of why you don't rely on the talent/potential on paper. Instead, it's smarter to find and sign the right fit, regardless of what the evaluators and other programs say about the player. Thank goodness we seem to have moved beyond that under Kruger.

PS - My apologies for the typos in my previous post. The phone doesn't always lead to the best results when typing something that long.

One thing I look at is UNC that same year. Coached by Roy Williams. The year after winning the championship and they lost quite a bit, didn't make the tournament either. And they had 7 McD AA. 4 in that incoming class.

And TMG may have been a mcd AA but his ranking was in the 40s, not a top 25 player.

Thats why I gave Capel a pass b/c if Roy can only make it to the NIT the following year with 7 mcd AA and with the addition of Deon Thompson, Ginyard, McDonald, and Graves, how was Capel going to do it after losing 5 guys and Willie being hurt most of the year.
Across the board...having 3 mcdonalds all americans and more than one coming from that freshmen class, it really didn't mean much on paper. If you didn't keep those players 3 or 4 years...they really didn't achieve much in college.(outside of the Wall/Cousin) duo.

 

[cvangild]

One thing I look at is UNC that same year. Coached by Roy Williams. The year after winning the championship and they lost quite a bit, didn't make the tournament either. And they had 7 McD AA. 4 in that incoming class.

And TMG may have been a mcd AA but his ranking was in the 40s, not a top 25 player.

Thats why I gave Capel a pass b/c if Roy can only make it to the NIT the following year with 7 mcd AA and with the addition of Deon Thompson, Ginyard, McDonald, and Graves, how was Capel going to do it after losing 5 guys and Willie being hurt most of the year.
Across the board...having 3 mcdonalds all americans and more than one coming from that freshmen class, it really didn't mean much on paper. If you didn't keep those players 3 or 4 years...they really didn't achieve much in college.(outside of the Wall/Cousin) duo.

Dude, you're killing me with the top 25 vs. top 40 player crap. Do you really think you can tell the difference between a player ranked #25 vs. a guy ranked #40 if you hadn't seen it listed on a website??? The answer is NO!!

Anyone knows to make the McD's AA team is veiwed as the pinnacle of HS basketball rankings. They don't throw average players in there from time to time. Someone obviously felt he was a top 25 player, or he wouldn't have been picked for the team. Give it a break!

 

[bgrch1350]

Dude, you're killing me with the top 25 vs. top 40 player crap. Do you really think you can tell the difference between a player ranked #25 vs. a guy ranked #40 if you hadn't seen it listed on a website??? The answer is NO!!

Anyone knows to make the McD's AA team is veiwed as the pinnacle of HS basketball rankings. They don't throw average players in there from time to time. Someone obviously felt he was a top 25 player, or he wouldn't have been picked for the team. Give it a break!

Actually for some of them I can. Rajon Rondo #25 vs Josh Wright #40
Austin Daye #25 vs Senario Hillman #40
Joel Embiid #25 vs Christian Wood #40

 

[okienole3]

Actually for some of them I can. Rajon Rondo #25 vs Josh Wright #40
Austin Daye #25 vs Senario Hillman #40
Joel Embiid #25 vs Christian Wood #40

Evan Turner #49 vs Austin Freeman #15
Klay Thompson #51 vs Willie Warren #10
Kawai Leonard #49 vs Michael Snaer #7

 

[lk2183]

One thing I look at is UNC that same year. Coached by Roy Williams. The year after winning the championship and they lost quite a bit, didn't make the tournament either. And they had 7 McD AA. 4 in that incoming class.

And TMG may have been a mcd AA but his ranking was in the 40s, not a top 25 player.

Thats why I gave Capel a pass b/c if Roy can only make it to the NIT the following year with 7 mcd AA and with the addition of Deon Thompson, Ginyard, McDonald, and Graves, how was Capel going to do it after losing 5 guys and Willie being hurt most of the year.
Across the board...having 3 mcdonalds all americans and more than one coming from that freshmen class, it really didn't mean much on paper. If you didn't keep those players 3 or 4 years...they really didn't achieve much in college.(outside of the Wall/Cousin) duo.

Sure, but my point was that historically we don't usually have that amount of McD AA's on one squad, because we don't pull them in like the blue blood programs (UNC and the like). I think most people would agree that class of kids (entire group, not just OUs) wasn't as deep as some other classes.

As for TMG and his ranking, he may not have been a McD AA in another year, but that doesn't really change the fact that he ended up one. And as Verbal Commits shows, his rankings were consistently in the 20s aside from one, which was in the 40s.