To add insult to injury

[blankenship4]

Lets just quit arguing about the future cause no one can predict it and just enjoy the rest of this season.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

LOL

Isn't this the 2nd bad season?

Sandwiched between two seasons that were pretty good. Like I said, I'm all for you guys gloating, and Ford is definately a step up from Sean Sutton...I just don't find him to be a very honorable person in how he handles himself or his kids. Ultimately though, its his business, I'm just glad we have the guy we have.

 

[Soonermarty]

I'll say OU wins 4 straight and goes dancing. May as well got nothing to lose

 

[Sam]

I'll say OU wins 4 straight and goes dancing. May as well got nothing to lose

I am going to Celtic Pride James Anderson, then Dennis Clemente, then Ekpe Udoh. For the championship it will have to be Collins, Aldrich, Henry and the good Morris twin, plus Bill Self's wig just for good luck.

 

[HoHum]

I think a big difference between OU and OSU is that OSU's bringing in a couple of JUCO's to help bridge the gap next year, while OU was forced to rely on all freshman.

We'll see though. I think they'll finish about the same next year, 8-8 or 9-7 or so. And maybe the same the year after that. It will be two or three seasons, I think before they can really start challenging for the top two or three spots in conference.

 

[oSuJeff97]

OU was 30-6 last year, largely due to the fact that we had senior leadership and a great player in Blake Griffin. If you can't see the similarities, I don't know what to tell you.

Ok... I'll try.

For starters, Blake Griffin was by far the best player in college basketball and the #1 overall player taken in the NBA draft.

James Anderson is a great player, but he's nowhere near that level of talent.

So the "great player" comparison clearly tilts toward OU.

In terms of "senior leadership", OU's starting point guard and power forward were seniors last year. In fact, the four non-BG starters included two seniors, a junior and a freshman.

OSU has only one senior this year. The "non-Anderson" starters are as balanced as you can get - freshman, sophomore, junior, senior.

Losing Anderson and Muenlo will certainly be an adjustment... just like losing Eaton and Harris were.

But as Dignon pointed out, we will still have a nice core of upper-classmen next year, and we'll be deeper and more athletic at every position.

I'm not about to predict that OSU will make the tournament next year, because I haven't seen that team play yet... but I'm fairly confident that we won't crash-and-burn to 4-12 in the conference.

We'll see though. I think they'll finish about the same next year, 8-8 or 9-7 or so. And maybe the same the year after that.

I think we'll challenge for the Big 12 title the year after next. That year the Penn/Gulley/Shaw class will be juniors, and it will be the first season with 100% Travis Ford recruits.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

I think we'll challenge for the Big 12 title the year after next. That year the Penn/Gulley/Shaw class will be juniors, and it will be the first season with 100% Travis Ford recruits.

LOL.

You are in a bit of a tight spot, becuase the more recognition that Anderson gets for being a great player, the more it tears down positions that you have taken in the past to tear Capel down.

oSu may or may not be better next year and contend for B12 championships the year after that. But in the here and now, Ford has been winning primarily with guys that weren't his recruits.

 

[oSuJeff97]

You are in a bit of a tight spot, becuase the more recognition that Anderson gets for being a great player, the more it tears down positions that you have taken in the past to tear Capel down.

Just because you repeat this ad naseum doesn't make it any more true.

I've never "torn down" Capel.

I've questioned whether or not his early-career success was too heavily dependent upon a once-in-a-generation player. Do you honestly think the results of this season do anything to de-legitimize this question?

And let me just repeat this for you for about the 100th time:

I've never faulted any coach for needing talent to win. Every single coach from Travis Ford to Jeff Capel to Bill Self needs talent to win games.

Here's the subtle part of the discussion that you seem to have a rough time grasping:

Blake Griffin was FAR outside the norm of basketball talent that resides in Norman, OK. He was the consensus best player in the country and the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft. That's rare even for a place like Kansas. It's extraoridnarliy rare for OU.

Now let's look at James Anderson:

He is the Big 12 POY and a likely NBA first-round pick. He's a great player, but is he as far-and-above the norm at OSU as Griffin is at OU? Not at all.

In the past 15 years, OSU has had five other players that were more or less on par with James Anderson: Joey Graham, Tony Allen, Desmond Mason, Bryant Reeves, Byron Houston.

All five of those guys were conference POY-calibur players and first-round NBA draft picks, just like Anderson.

None of them were the consensus #1 player in the country and first pick in the NBA draft, like Griffin.

 

[MVPx2]

I have said more than once that I have been impressed with how hard Ford's kids play for him. But that doesn't mean he's not capable of bringing in players who for one reason or another, simply don't mesh well as a team. All it takes is one or two player who can't (or won't) buy into what he's selling and team chemistry suffers. It's easy to say, well, just send them packin' or sit them on the bench to teach them a lesson. But an injury or two, combined with a player who doesn't pan out the way you hoped can change those plans in a hurry.

You just described Matt Pilgrim at the beginning of the season. He was not getting the PT he thought he deserved, and his attitude suffered because of it. His attitude starts getting to other members of the team, so he stops dressing out for games and getting minimal PT when he does dress out. Ford tells him "it's either my way or the highway" and suddenly Pilgrim is starting and is a big contributor to what this team has accomplished.

What you said could happen DID happen to OSU, and OU as well. We lost our starting PG for the year to an injury (Penn, OU had Willie) and a guy who had his own agenda and let his poor attitude affect his game and how he was as a teammate (Pilgrim, whoever OU had that was doing this). OSU was able to persevere through these trials, OU was not.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

Just because you repeat this ad naseum doesn't make it any more true.

I've never "torn down" Capel.

I've questioned whether or not his early-career success was too heavily dependent upon a once-in-a-generation player. Do you honestly think the results of this season do anything to de-legitimize this question?

And let me just repeat this for you for about the 100th time:

I've never faulted any coach for needing talent to win. Every single coach from Travis Ford to Jeff Capel to Bill Self needs talent to win games.

Here's the subtle part of the discussion that you seem to have a rough time grasping:

Blake Griffin was FAR outside the norm of basketball talent that resides in Norman, OK. He was the consensus best player in the country and the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft. That's rare even for a place like Kansas. It's extraoridnarliy rare for OU.
Now let's look at James Anderson:

He is the Big 12 POY and a likely NBA first-round pick. He's a great player, but is he as far-and-above the norm at OSU as Griffin is at OU? Not at all.

In the past 15 years, OSU has had five other players that were more or less on par with James Anderson: Joey Graham, Tony Allen, Desmond Mason, Bryant Reeves, Byron Houston.

All five of those guys were conference POY-calibur players and first-round NBA draft picks, just like Anderson.

None of them were the consensus #1 player in the country and first pick in the NBA draft, like Griffin.

See, here is the fundamental "distinction" that you are missing:

CAPEL RECRUITED GRIFFIN TO OU. GRIFFIN WAS CAPEL'S GUY AND CAPEL COACHED HIM THROUGHOUT HIS COLLEGE CAREER.

You keep talking about Blake being all-world and once in a generation talent...he wasn't thought of being that BEFORE he got to OU. Griffin himself gives Capel much of the credit for his development between when he got to campus and when he left. Blake wasn't even projected to be in the top 5-6 players after his freshman season. The saddest thing is that this line of thinking has caught on with a few OU "fans" on here. In comparison, Ford can't even say that he has recruited his best players to oSu, yet some in this thread have him competing for B12 Championships once he get's 100% of his own recruits.

 

[oSuJeff97]

See, here is the fundamental "distinction" that you are missing:

CAPEL RECRUITED GRIFFIN TO OU. GRIFFIN WAS CAPEL'S GUY AND CAPEL COACHED HIM THROUGHOUT HIS COLLEGE CAREER.

That's irrelevant. I don't care that Capel recruited and coached him.

I give Capel all the credit in the world for getting Blake there and coaching him up, but the fact remains that he had the sheer talent and ability to be the #1 overall pick in the draft.

Why didn't Capel just coach up the guys on this year's team? Could it be that they just didn't have the raw talent of Blake?

And to that point, when do you think will be the next time an OU player will be the #1 overall pick in the NBA draft? Next year? The year after that? 10 years from now?

And will that level of talent be required for Capel to be successful at OU?

I don't know the end-game answer to that question, but this year certainly makes that question more resounding, doesn't it?

You keep talking about Blake being all-world and once in a generation talent...he wasn't thought of being that BEFORE he got to OU.

He most certainly was. Had the NBA not changed their draft rules, he most likely would have gone directly to the NBA out of high school.

Griffin himself gives Capel much of the credit for his development between when he got to campus and when he left.

So Capel was responsible for him being a 6 foot 9 athletic freak who can jump out of the gym? Come on. I don't doubt that Capel's coaching helped him improve, but Blake's raw talent was evident in high school.

Blake wasn't even projected to be in the top 5-6 players after his freshman season.

He was projected as a lottery pick. That's pretty rare company.

In comparison, Ford can't even say that he has recruited his best players to oSu, yet some in this thread have him competing for B12 Championships once he get's 100% of his own recruits.

LOL. I don't know if you noticed, but this is Ford's second season at OSU. His first recruting class are all freshmen. Of course they aren't going to be the best players on the team this year.

And I will stand by my statement that OSU will be challenging for the Big 12 title in two years. Maybe we could do a cool avatar bet on that.

 

[Mr.B!!!]

[Facepalm]



LOL. I don't know if you noticed, but this is Ford's second season at OSU. His first recruting class are all freshmen. Of course they aren't going to be the best players on the team this year.

Amazing, OU's best players besides Warren are FRESHMAN as well.

 

[propoke]

Amazing, OU's best players besides Warren are FRESHMAN as well.

On a 4-12 team??? Is that supposed to be a good thing?

 

[SoonerfanTU]

Amazing, OU's best players besides Warren are FRESHMAN as well.

Way to throw Crocker and Davis under the bus.

 

[Dignon003]

Sandwiched between two seasons that were pretty good. Like I said, I'm all for you guys gloating, and Ford is definately a step up from Sean Sutton...I just don't find him to be a very honorable person in how he handles himself or his kids. Ultimately though, its his business, I'm just glad we have the guy we have.

I'm glad you have the guy you have too.

 

[stoops4pres]

We will win a whole bunch of games and go dancing again.

Bold statement IMO. Losing Anderson (and Obi) is bigger then you realize.

Ok. State will be NIT bound next year IMO.

 

[Cheno]

Personally, I think Ford is doing a fantastic job and has OSU playing hard and heading in the right direction. OSU fans have a lot to be excited about. With the right matchups I could see them as a Sweet 16 team.

 

[FaithfulSooner]

They won't make the sweet 16. BOOMER SOONER BABY!!!

 

[stoops4pres]

With the right matchups I could see them as a Sweet 16 team.

I agree.

 

[Sooner Quick]

Amazing, OU's best players besides Warren are FRESHMAN as well.

Most talented? Maybe. Best players this year would goto Crocker and Davis with TMG coming on late.