Why Does Lunardi still have KState as a 1 Seed?

[stoops4pres]

Not really. I think the Big East is much better top to bottom.

I can understand that you believe the Big East is better... But to the extent that you're making it? No way. They aren't better to the point that "it isn't even close"... If that were the case the Big 12 wouldn't be ranked 1st in the RPI.

 

[bestj]

I can understand that you believe the Big East is better... But to the extent that you're making it? No way. They aren't better to the point that "it isn't even close"... If that were the case the Big 12 wouldn't be ranked 1st in the RPI.

how would the big 12 teams far against the big east, 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, etc

i just picked the top 5 in each standings

big east big xii
1.Syacuse 1. Kansas
2.Villanova 2. Kansas St
3.West Virginia 3. Baylor
4.Pittsburgh 4. Texas A&M
5.Marquette 5. Missouri

 

[stoops4pres]

how would the big 12 teams far against the big east, 1 vs 1, 2 vs 2, etc

i just picked the top 5 in each standings

big east big xii
1.Syacuse 1. Kansas
2.Villanova 2. Kansas St
3.West Virginia 3. Baylor
4.Pittsburgh 4. Texas A&M
5.Marquette 5. Missouri

Splitting hairs in most of these matchups. Its close with a lot of these. Here is what I would go with:

1- KU over Syracuse (close)
2-Nova over K-State (close)
3-West Virginia over Baylor
4-Push If I had to pick, I would go with Pitt
5-Push again... This is really tough to pick, but I would probably go with Marquette based on each other's resume. If they matched up in the tourney, I would honestly go with Mizzou. I don't know if Marquette could handle their style of play, as most tourney teams have trouble doing against Anderson.

That's 1-4 in a close matchup in all of them, but you can make a compelling argument that the 4 and 5 spots could go reversed in the Big 12's favor. Either way, from this perspective it does not show that the Big East is better than the Big 12 to the point that "it isn't even close" as another poster said (which was what I refuted). I think its very close when comparing the 2 conferences. Is the Big East better? Right now I would say yes. But its a close call no doubt.

 

[Cheno]

Again, I said "top to bottom" yet we stop at #5. The thing I find most interesting with that top 5 is G'Town isn't in it yet are ranked higher than the #3, #4 & #5 Big 12 teams listed. That speaks volumes.
There's not a team in the Big 12 that if they were in the Big East would have the same number of conference losses. There just isn't. There are very few nights off in the Big East. KU wouldn't walk thru the Big East...they'd have 3 or so losses. The teams not mentioned for the Big 12 you have Texas and OSU left that are really that good and have any chance of post season play. Their isn't even an NIT left in the bunch after that. The Big East you have Louisville, Notre Dame, G'Town, Seton Hall, UCONN, Cincy, etc. It's not even close at the bottom half. UCONN is the 12th place team in the Big East. They make a run for the 4th or 5th spot in the Big 12.

 

[Sawyer]

big east big xii
1.Syacuse 1. Kansas
2.Villanova 2. Kansas St
3.West Virginia 3. Baylor
4.Pittsburgh 4. Texas A&M
5.Marquette 5. Missouri

I don't know a whole lot about Syracuse and am biased on that one, anyway, so I'll abstain from commenting on that game.

But regarding the other four, I think all of the games are extremely close and could go either way. I don't see a major advantage for anyone. 2-4 may be a slight lean for the Big East, but I think it mostly would depend on where the games are played.

Regarding Marquette vs. Mizzou, I'm again biased. I know Mizzou beat them last year in the tournament, and I know Marquette, like Mizzou, lost at least three very important seniors (I think Marquette actually lost more). Looking at their roster, they only have three guys taller than 6-6, and only one of those guys plays more than 5 minutes/game (and the one guy who actually sees real time is only 6-7). Mizzou doesn't have much size, either, but in every game MU has played against smaller teams, they've dominated.

Also, for what it's worth, here's 6-12:

Texas Louisville
OSU Notre Dame
Colorado Georgetown
Texas Tech South Florida
Oklahoma Seton Hall
Iowa State Cinci
Nebraska UConn

UT/Louisville depends on which UT team shows up. OSU has the edge over Notre Dame at this point due to injury. CU vs. Georgetown is a definite Big East advantage. I'll call USF/TT a push because I don't know enough about either team. Seton Hall probably has an advantage over OU, but they're another team I don't really know a whole lot about. Cinci and UConn are far and away better than our bottom two.

The real advantage the Big East has over the Big 12 IMO is the mid-low portion of their conference. Their best are not significantly better or worse than our best. Same can be said about their worst (St. Johns, Rutgers, Providence and DePaul). But where we have Iowa State and Nebraska, they have teams with a few NBA players who can knock off anyone on any given night.

 

[stoops4pres]

Again, I said "top to bottom" yet we stop at #5. The thing I find most interesting with that top 5 is G'Town isn't in it yet are ranked higher than the #3, #4 & #5 Big 12 teams listed. That speaks volumes.
There's not a team in the Big 12 that if they were in the Big East would have the same number of conference losses. There just isn't. There are very few nights off in the Big East. KU wouldn't walk thru the Big East...they'd have 3 or so losses. The teams not mentioned for the Big 12 you have Texas and OSU left that are really that good and have any chance of post season play. Their isn't even an NIT left in the bunch after that. The Big East you have Louisville, Notre Dame, G'Town, Seton Hall, UCONN, Cincy, etc. It's not even close at the bottom half. UCONN is the 12th place team in the Big East. They make a run for the 4th or 5th spot in the Big 12.

Regardless, the Big East isn't better then the Big 12 to the point where "it isn't even close". That's the point.

Compare the Big East to the SEC... Its not even close. To the Pac 10... Its not even close. Not the Big 12.

 

[Cheno]

Regardless, the Big East isn't better then the Big 12 to the point where "it isn't even close". That's the point.

Compare the Big East to the SEC... Its not even close. To the Pac 10... Its not even close. Not the Big 12.

Fine. Top to bottom thought I don't think it's that close. But whatever.
If the Big East played the Big 12 in a matchup 1-12 I think the Big 12 would be lucky to win 4 games.

 

[sys]

Fine. Top to bottom thought I don't think it's that close. But whatever.
If the Big East played the Big 12 in a matchup 1-12 I think the Big 12 would be lucky to win 4 games.

how many do you think the big 12 would win matched up against their 5-16?

 

[Cheno]

how many do you think the big 12 would win matched up against their 5-16?

A couple....depends on the matchups.
I think UCONN fights for top 5 in the Big 12. They are 12th in the Big East.
Do you disagree?

 

[stoops4pres]

Fine. Top to bottom thought I don't think it's that close. But whatever.
If the Big East played the Big 12 in a matchup 1-12 I think the Big 12 would be lucky to win 4 games.

We'll just agree to disagree.

 

[stoops4pres]

A couple....depends on the matchups.
I think UCONN fights for top 5 in the Big 12. They are 12th in the Big East.
Do you disagree?

I do. UCONN wasn't exactly immune to out of conference opponents... They did lose to an awful Michigan squad. Not to mention, they've had a few bad losses in conference to the point that I wouldn't definitively put them as a Top 5 Big 12 team.

Would they be a few spots higher? With their good wins I would say so. But not Top 5 IMO.

 

[sys]

A couple....depends on the matchups.
I think UCONN fights for top 5 in the Big 12. They are 12th in the Big East.
Do you disagree?

of course i disagree. your argument is entirely subjective. i prefer objective criteria.

 

[Cheno]

I do. UCONN wasn't exactly immune to out of conference opponents... They did lose to an awful Michigan squad.

LOL. I love it when people just randomly pull out games. What does Michigan in the Big 10 have to do with Big 12 vs Big East?
Wouldn't one suspect if looking at non-conference schedule one would bring up the butt kicking that UCONN put on Texas?

The Big East is much, much deeper and better at the top as well IMO.

 

[sys]

LOL. I love it when people just randomly pull out games. What does Michigan in the Big 10 have to do with Big 12 vs Big East?
Wouldn't one suspect if looking at non-conference schedule one would bring up the butt kicking that UCONN put on Texas?

The Big East is much, much deeper and better at the top as well IMO.

lol.

texas destroyed pitt. tied for 6th in the big 12 vs tied for 3rd in the big east.

 

[stoops4pres]

LOL. I love it when people just randomly pull out games. What does Michigan in the Big 10 have to do with Big 12 vs Big East?

Haha what? It has A LOT to do with this discussion about how much tougher UCONN is compared to the Big 12! If UCONN would automatically make a run for the 4th or 5th Big 12 spot that you are making it out to be, wouldn't you think that they wouldn't struggle to bad teams as much this season? Them losing to a bad OOC team in Michigan, along with bad conference losses, shows that it isn't a foregone conclusion that they would be in the top 4 or 5 in the Big 12.

Open your eyes, and you will see those examples being very germane to this topic.

lol.

texas destroyed pitt. tied for 6th in the big 12 vs tied for 3rd in the big east.

Exactly, Cheno.

 

[bestj]

so the topic of this thread....

....um nevermind

 

[Cheno]

lol.
texas destroyed pitt. tied for 6th in the big 12 vs tied for 3rd in the big east.

LOL what? That is exactly the type of argument one should be making. Not what UCONN did vs Michigan. :ez-roll:

Bottom line is if you think 2 thru 12 in the Big 12 beats the Big East you are delusional. K-State showed what kind of team they are today. Nova & WV are much better teams.
The best conference in the country can't have one team just walk thru it like a stroll in the park. The best conference in America has great teams battling to win it all season long. The Big 12 was wrapped up before it was half way over. The Big East is the best conference in the country this year.
The Big East may have 3 teams that are locks for 3 seeds or better in the Big Dance. The Big 12 has one lock.

 

[stoops4pres]

LOL what? That is exactly the type of argument one should be making. Not what UCONN did vs Michigan. :ez-roll:

I would be laughing at myself too if an example (among others) was given that contradicted your argument.

Bottom line is if you think 2 thru 12 in the Big 12 beats the Big East you are delusional.

Who is advocating that? The only bottom line I see in this thread is that you are delusional if you think the Big East is better than the Big 12 so much to the point that "it isn't even close", when in reality the Big East is NOT head and shoulders above the Big 12. If the Big East is so much better then the Big 12 as you believe, why is the Big 12 #1 in the RPI? Why was the Big 12's record +100-2 in non conference home games? These stats (among others) prove that regardless if the Big East is better, it is not "by far" better then you're making it out to be. Give me stats and logic over your subjective reasoning any day.

 

[Cheno]

:ez-laugh: I already said fine and whatever about it not even being close.
It's close in a stat comparison I guess....but really IMO it's not. It's been a ho hum season with the only drama being how the middle of the pack would turn out. The bottom is horrible....there was no competition for #1...so it was basically a bunch of teams jumbled in the middle.

Bottom line is if you combine the Big 12 and the Big East then in the top 5 there is one Big 12 team and 4 Big East teams. Do you argue that?

 

[buttermaker1]

:ez-laugh: I already said fine and whatever about it not even being close.
It's close in a stat comparison I guess....but really IMO it's not. It's been a ho hum season with the only drama being how the middle of the pack would turn out. The bottom is horrible....there was no competition for #1...so it was basically a bunch of teams jumbled in the middle.

Bottom line is if you combine the Big 12 and the Big East then in the top 5 there is one Big 12 team and 4 Big East teams. Do you argue that?

Not sure Cheno would ever cheer for ksu THATS A TRUE BIG 12 FAN FOR YA. Way to be a big 12 fan