ToupeeBill
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Parody or prophecy?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_TtvKWtSQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cb_TtvKWtSQ
(You Better Not) Lose Bill Self
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SoonerBred
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Pretty hilarious! Well done.:lon
SoonerTraveler
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cvangild
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In Self's 14 seasons at KU, he has been a #1 seed 7 times and either a #1 or #2 seed 10 of his 14 seasons...and has only been to TWO FINAL FOURS!!!!
His teams have never been seeded lower than a 4 seed, and that has only been twice. So his teams have had the following seeds: #1 ( 7 times), #2 (3 times), #3 (2 times), #4 (2 times).
Sorry, but to me...that's some serious underachieving!!!!
Since 2000, OU's seeding has been as follows: #1 (1 times), #2 (3 times), #3 (3 times), #4 (1 times), #5 (1 times), #6 (2 times), #10 (1 times) and have made it to the Final Four 2 times and the Elite 8 once! That's pretty efficient!!!
Even Bob Stoops (a lot of people like to compare KU b-ball to OU football) has played in 4 NC's and has made it to one "final four" under the new structure in his 18 seasons or however many he has been at OU.
I'm in no way saying they get rid of him (would be as near as silly as OU firing Stoops), but you can't deny the fact that they haven't done well with all these 1 seeds they have received over the years. Next year is going to be a very interesting season for KU...especially if Graham doesn't come back. I think we might see their string of conference CS's come to an end!!!
His teams have never been seeded lower than a 4 seed, and that has only been twice. So his teams have had the following seeds: #1 ( 7 times), #2 (3 times), #3 (2 times), #4 (2 times).
Sorry, but to me...that's some serious underachieving!!!!
Since 2000, OU's seeding has been as follows: #1 (1 times), #2 (3 times), #3 (3 times), #4 (1 times), #5 (1 times), #6 (2 times), #10 (1 times) and have made it to the Final Four 2 times and the Elite 8 once! That's pretty efficient!!!
Even Bob Stoops (a lot of people like to compare KU b-ball to OU football) has played in 4 NC's and has made it to one "final four" under the new structure in his 18 seasons or however many he has been at OU.
I'm in no way saying they get rid of him (would be as near as silly as OU firing Stoops), but you can't deny the fact that they haven't done well with all these 1 seeds they have received over the years. Next year is going to be a very interesting season for KU...especially if Graham doesn't come back. I think we might see their string of conference CS's come to an end!!!
The question is: "Do Bill Self teams underachieve in March or do his teams overachieve heading in to March?" I don't believe he's coached a player at KU who has played in an NBA All-Star game, so I'm inclined to believe he gets the most out of his players...and that often catches up with you in March. I look at the 5 best "coaching seasons" at OU over the past 40 years or so. The 5 which come to mind are 1984, 1990, 1995, 2000 and 2014. We won a total of 2 NCAA tournament games those 5 years, and one of those was against a #16 seed.
To take it another level, seeded #1 - #4, Billy should have won 22 NCAA tournament games...he won 12. Seeded #3 - #6, Kelvin should have won 9 NCAA tournament games...he won 2. Even though we've had some bad NCAA tournament losses, I never thought of ether Billy or Kelvin as guys who underachieved in March. I always thought of them as getting the most out of their talent; and again, that often catches up with you in March. I just don't think it's any different with Bill Self.
coolm
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Bill gets a few great players and a bunch of good players/great athletes and he focuses on defense and teamwork and his teams play well.
He didnt have the pure basketball skill to get past Oregon's. Their offense has been streaky in every game I have seen them play this season. I think OU's players had more basketball skills than KU's.
He didnt have the pure basketball skill to get past Oregon's. Their offense has been streaky in every game I have seen them play this season. I think OU's players had more basketball skills than KU's.
This^^^
IMO Kansas didn't have a good enough inside game to warrant a 1 seed. They were streaky because they depended on up tempo and 3 point shooting to win games. That's why a lot of teams (including OU) could stay with them for long periods of time only to see KU get hot and win going away.
chuckb
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They were extremely top-heavy & too dependent on their stars. When Graham & Jackson didn't get it done, they were dependent on Mason. They were a really good team but prone to losing to a weaker team because they were so dependent on Mason & Jackson. Oregon's a great team and played a great game. KU probably would win a 7 game series but, of course, that's not how the tournament works.
The other 1 seeds had/have more scoring options and more depth than Kansas. I think KU deserved a 1 seed because of their play this year but, in my mind, they were the one most likely to lose early (though the Elite 8 is absolutely not early) because of their lack of depth.
The other 1 seeds had/have more scoring options and more depth than Kansas. I think KU deserved a 1 seed because of their play this year but, in my mind, they were the one most likely to lose early (though the Elite 8 is absolutely not early) because of their lack of depth.
Soonerinkc
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lol, that was good...put it on my FB...lots of ku friends.
ducks played very athletic..ku just relied on Mason. I def compare ku bball to OU fball...at least fan wise. If OU isn't in the top 5 playing a major bowl every year folks get testy...(yes even I have high expectations).
The "problem" with ku...is men's bball is about all they have. Honestly look at OU's sports...
#1 men/womens gym
#10 baseball
#11 softball (won the title 3 times)
#20ish women's bball (usually ranked)
Final 4 men's bball last yr (not even mentioning this yr..:facepalm)
I believe tennis in both m/w is ranked..or has been.
Wrestling, track..
OU is football no doubt...but all the other "major" sports are very good as well
ducks played very athletic..ku just relied on Mason. I def compare ku bball to OU fball...at least fan wise. If OU isn't in the top 5 playing a major bowl every year folks get testy...(yes even I have high expectations).
The "problem" with ku...is men's bball is about all they have. Honestly look at OU's sports...
#1 men/womens gym
#10 baseball
#11 softball (won the title 3 times)
#20ish women's bball (usually ranked)
Final 4 men's bball last yr (not even mentioning this yr..:facepalm)
I believe tennis in both m/w is ranked..or has been.
Wrestling, track..
OU is football no doubt...but all the other "major" sports are very good as well
To be fair regarding the NBA talent... that's about to change... think Wiggins, Macklemore and def Embid all have all star potential. But I would agree with your premise that his teams probably overachieve in the big 12.
McLemore has been in the NBA for 4 years and he's averaging 7 ppg this year. Buddy is now starting over him. He's never gonna play in an all star game.
Let's also get out of here with the overachieving stuff.
Since Self has been there they've had:
Wayne Simien
J.R. Giddens
Sasha Kaun
Darnell Jackson
Brandon Rush
Mario chalmers
Julian Wright
Darrell Arthur
Cole Aldridge
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris
Xavier Henry
Jeff Withey
Thomas Robinson
Josh Selb
Ben McLemore
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid
Kelly Oubre
That's 20 guys who have played in the NBA. No stars in that group outside of Wiggins and Embiid, but a lot of really talented guys who have had made it to the highest level. And that's not even counting the tons of solid college players who just weren't NBA guys, like Tyshawn Taylor and Perry Ellis. The only programs who have produced more NBA talent over that period are your Dukes and Kentuckys.
Since Self has been there they've had:
Wayne Simien
J.R. Giddens
Sasha Kaun
Darnell Jackson
Brandon Rush
Mario chalmers
Julian Wright
Darrell Arthur
Cole Aldridge
Markieff Morris
Marcus Morris
Xavier Henry
Jeff Withey
Thomas Robinson
Josh Selb
Ben McLemore
Andrew Wiggins
Joel Embiid
Kelly Oubre
That's 20 guys who have played in the NBA. No stars in that group outside of Wiggins and Embiid, but a lot of really talented guys who have had made it to the highest level. And that's not even counting the tons of solid college players who just weren't NBA guys, like Tyshawn Taylor and Perry Ellis. The only programs who have produced more NBA talent over that period are your Dukes and Kentuckys.
To be honest didn't look up stats on him, do yeah, you're right about McLemore. But Wiggins and Embid seem to be on their way...
John Calipari has won the exact same number of National Championships as Bill Self with talent, far, far, exceeding what is listed above. I'll stand by my statement that Bill Self is an outstanding head coach who gets the most out of his players.
sooner 1234
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Big difference in big 12 play vs the big dance .
Kansas isn't going to get every single call in the NCAAs.
Kansas isn't going to get every single call in the NCAAs.
The 3-point shot has changed college basketball, it's the great equalizer. It's also created a game with no post players.
I always laugh when a team wins, the talking heads always said the winning team played great defense.
More often than not, the losing team had the same shots they normally had, they just missed them.
If a team is 4 of 22 from 3-point range, they seldom win in the NCAA Tournament.
I always laugh when a team wins, the talking heads always said the winning team played great defense.
More often than not, the losing team had the same shots they normally had, they just missed them.
If a team is 4 of 22 from 3-point range, they seldom win in the NCAA Tournament.
coolm
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thats just not true either. I can't stand the guy but he IS a good coach.
I went to the OU-UMass game in '92 played in Springfield, MA. That was the pre-Marcus Camby days, and they still wiped the floor with us. I'd hate to think of what that outcome would have been if mid-major UMass had a good coach. Most coaches dream to make the Final Four. Calipari has done it with three different schools, and only one plays in a power conference. What has UMass done since he left after '96?
He's a great recruiter, but he's not a good program builder or in-game recruiter. His platoon system is one of the most idiotic decisions I've ever seen.
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