All-star team

[SoonerNorm]

What you didn't say is that Breanna lost her job as a starter after those first six games. Let's see who they played and how she scored in what kind of game:

Charleston 103-39 21 (exhibition game so I didn't count it)
Texas A&M 81-50 11 (19 minutes)
Wake Forest 96-34 20 (22 minutes)
Marist 81-39 20 (22 minutes)
Purdue 91-57 17 (21 minutes)
Colgate 101-41 12 (21 minutes, field goal % was 60%)

Lost job as starter

Maryland 63-48 13 (she started this game, 31 minutes, bad shooting night)
Penn State 67-52 7 (1 for 3 from the field, 7 rebounds, 2 assists, 2 blocks, not bad)
Oakland 97-25 21 (29 minutes, 13 boards, 2 blks, and 2 steals, very good game)
Hartford 102-45 27 (Second best scoring game, but against Hartford (since when did we start judging our own players' performance by who they played?), 7 boards, 25 minutes, 9-13 from the field, 2-3 BTA, great game)
Stanford 61-35 9 (6 boards, 24 minutes, a so-so game for her)
Oregon 95-51 4 (12 minutes played, not a good game)

Notre Dame 72-73 10 (played 10 minutes, only missed one shot)
Georgetown 75-48 12 (13 boards, played 20 min, went 5 for 9 from the field, good game)
Marquette 85-51 DNP (ankle injury)
Louisville 72-58 DNP (ankle injury)
Syracuse 87-62 20 (add 6 boards in 22 minutes)
Duke 79-49 13 (add 5 boards and 3 blocks, 5 for 7 from the field, 22 minutes)
Cincinnati 67-31 10 (add 7 boards in 22 minutes, good game)
Villanova 76-43 14 (add 6 boards, 3 assists, 3 blocks, and 2 steals in 21 minutes, good game)
St. Johns 71-65 5 (bad game)
Marquette 94-37 10 (add 7 boards, 2 assists, 3 blocks, and 2 steals, 24 minutes, good game)
DePaul 91-44 9 (add 9 boards, 50% shooting, 21 minutes, good game)
Providence 105-49 13 (add 10 boards in 22 minutes, not bad)
Rutgers 65-45 6 (bad shooting night)
Baylor 70-76 0 (only played 7 minutes, not sure why)
Seton Hall 90-30 16 (add 8 boards and 2 blocks, 7-12 from the field, good game)
Pittsburgh 76-36 15 (add 9 boards, 4 assists, 4 blks, and 3 steals, good game)
South Florida 85-51 2 Has she lost all confidence? (Really??? Check that last game)
Notre Dame 87-96 5 (even though she had 6 boards and 5 blocks, not a good game for her)

Big East Tournament

DePaul 94-61 21 (add 6 boards in 26 minutes on 9 of 12 shooting, guess that confidence is back)
Syracuse 64-51 14 (add 7 boards and 2 blocks in 28 minutes, 60% from the field, good game)
Notre Dame 59-61 16 (returned as a starter, 37 minutes, good game)

NCAA Tournament

Idaho 105-37 DNP injury to calf
Vanderbilt 77-44 14 (add 5 boards, 3 blks, and 3 steals, good game)
Maryland 76-50 17 (add 8 boards, 4 blks, and 3 steals, good game)
Kentucky 83-53 21 (8 for 14 from the field, 4 boards, 3 blks, good game)
Notre Dame 83-65 29 Highest scoring game of the year, in the semis.
Louisville 93-60 23 Third highest scoring game in the finals

She was a talent, but she lost her job and went into a season-long funk. (I wouldn't call it a funk when a player is still rebounding, getting steals, blocking shots, and still scoring in double figures pretty regularly). She didn't really come out of it until the tournaments began.

My replies are in red.

 

[35TangoTango]

Meanwhile, back on topic.......

 

[sybarite]

My replies are in red.

You are fighting a losing battle when Breanna and Geno both have talked about how poorly Breanna played during the regular season. She was not really there in the bigger games when they could have used her. She admits that she lost confidence and even had discussed going home, pure frustration. She was really at a low level when the tournament began, but she decided to play her game as best she could. She had to accept herself.

Now, she admits that as does Geno. Since they admit it, and it appears to be a description of what happened with her losing her starting job at one point, it seems somewhat difficult to contradict.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Do the stats lie?

 

[sybarite]

Do the stats lie?

Your interpretation leaves a bit to be desired. Fortunately, Breanna and Geno thought so, too. Thus, they took steps to correct what you perceive as being satisfactory.

 

[sybarite]

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130410/uconn-deitsch/
Norm, try reading this for an understanding of what happened.

 

[BanjoCharley]

Statistics is the art of using numbers to prove anything you want to.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Statistics is the art of using numbers to prove anything you want to.

There's some truth in that. But, so much in sports is evaluated and judged by stats. It is almost impossible for any basketball player to go through an entire season without having some bad games.

 

[sybarite]

There's some truth in that. But, so much in sports is evaluated and judged by stats. It is almost impossible for any basketball player to go through an entire season without having some bad games.

Is it statistics when they admit the problem?

Stewart's funk started to fade in March thanks to early-morning sessions with Dailey that focused on jump shooting and post moves, with a particular emphasis on form shooting. The coaching staff thought Stewart was too good a shooter to be missing easy looks, so Dailey demanded she not only make shots but make them without hitting the rim. "It was a really frustrating time," said Stewart, who opted for UConn over Duke, Penn State and Syracuse. "Obviously, I had never been in such an up and down period like this. In high school, it was maybe for one game. But when it is game after game, it gets frustrating because I want to play well. And when you are not playing well and trying to figure out why you are not playing well, and then you are getting into your own head, it is an ongoing cycle."

"Young players can sometimes get like and respected confused," Dailey said. "While everyone wants to be liked, when you are on the court you want to be respected for how hard you work and what you are willing to do for the team. I think she felt a responsibility to the older players and that's what bothered her the most. I don't think she cares what the media writes about her or what people say. I think she thought she was letting her team down."


Read More: http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/college-basketball/news/20130410/uconn-deitsch/#ixzz2SCJ2XgnZ

 

[euphguy]

You both fail to realize how ridiculous you look and act. You are two stubborn, old men who are never going to persuade each other, yet you continue to babble on. Ridiculous!

 

[SoonerNorm]

You both fail to realize how ridiculous you look and act. You are two stubborn, old men who are never going to persuade each other, yet you continue to babble on. Ridiculous!

I agree. I have no intention of responding to anything he says in the future.

 

[Soonerbay]

1st Team
Stacy Dales
Courtney Paris
Ashley Paris
Caton Hill
Danielle Robinson

2nd Team
LaNeishea Caufield
Joanne McFarland
Erin Higgins
Amanda Thompson
Aaryn Ellenberg

 

[SoonerNorm]

I have a conflict when it comes to Amanda Thompson. I didn't think she played all that well when she was at the 3 even though she was one of the toughest players on the team. But her last year at the 4 she played very well. It wasn't her fault that she played out of position but, it's hard for me to put her on an all-star team for one really good year plus 3 that were not as good.

 

[Soonerbay]

I want a post player who can grab 10-15 rebounds, play in the motion offense, and step out for the three. Joanna McFarland.
I want a four who can grab 8 rebounds, run in transition, and step out for the three. Caton Hill.
I want a three who can run the court and run the offense as point forward. Stacy Dales.
I want a two who can knock down the three. Ellenberg.
I want a point guard who can break down the defense, run, and guard the point. DRob.

I am likely the only poster to demote CP. To me, she never developed an offensive game beyond 5 ft. To run the offense through her was a mistake, leaving everyone else standing around. Higgins became a "decoy." Welch got benched.

If I could pick one player around whom to build a team, it would still be Stacy Dales. It is worth noting that she and DRob are the only two SC players to really make it in the WNBA.

It's not that CP had not "developed" an offensive game beyond 5 feet. CONTINUED DEVELOPMENT was not part of the process once she arrived at OU. I saw many of her games from elementary through college and she was very diversified prior to OU. Her strength had always been her STRENGTH with rebounding and scoring from PERIMETER misses. I saw her for years tell her guards SHOOT THE BALL...I'VE GOT YOU! She also stepped outside and was very accurate 10 ft. out and was known to hit buzzer 3's as an asterisk to a game. She has Kobe game time attitude on the court and one of the nicest people I've met off the court. She has always had a very high BBIQ (her stats never showed her fouling out...even with four fouls in many games) and the brilliant move she made that I remember best is a close game versus LaJolla Country Day and Candice Wiggins in the state championship game. She took a crystal clear charge and Wiggins fouled out of the game with just a few minutes left. Both had four fouls. She and AP HAD to play some guard in high school; especially their freshman year. They ALWAYS were the press breakers. If you had seen them play their last two years of club ball with West Coast All Stars, you would have seen a team coached to handle the ball, rebound, defend up top, perimeter shooting and post moves REGARDLESS OF YOUR POSITION. That team had CP, AP, Erika Arriaran, Deveneia Hampton and Alexis Gray Lawson beating the east coast teams with Marissa Coleman, Kia Vaughn, Epiphany Prince, etc...regularly. Diversity was their key, but the diversified development and opportunity did not continue in college. I've seen it lately in JMc, which is a good thing. The women's game is continually developing and to be consistently successful, you have to keep up with the growth.

During 2005-2010...OU had enough diversified talent to make it to the FF and win at least once. One has to know what to do with the talent and develop it; including freshmen. Ask Geno. Well, maybe he was asked, but I wouldn't give the competition the answers to the test either!

 

[Soonerbay]

I include AT on my second team because it was not her fault that she was out of position most years. At the same time, the talent, skill and desire was consistently there, but it's not effective if the match-up is incorrect.

 

[Soonercuda]

I include AT on my second team because it was not her fault that she was out of position most years. At the same time, the talent, skill and desire was consistently there, but it's not effective if the match-up is incorrect.

So to play Amanda at the 4 who should we have benched, Courtney or Ashley?

 

[keysersose]

Bay. I am aware from your numerous posts over the years that you think that SC did not develop (continue to develop) CP during her time at OU. I cannot speak to the background that you describe. I can say that she did not block out as a freshman and she did not block out as a senior. You seem to suggest that she might have played a McFarland-type post game (moving in and out in the motion offense). But SC made the decision after her freshman year (when we ran the 4-1 motion and ran the table in the B12) to go to a "motion-skewed" offense that to me looked like a triangle. The goal was to get the ball to CP in the low post. Brown and Moore could not make the entry pass, the offense stalled, and mid season SC benched Welsch and the two point guards and inserted Plumley at the point and Thompson at the 3 (Rush was 4). Things got a bit better, but the offenses never was in synch until Hand arrived to provide outside balance. Recall that we ended up with two point guards on the court with Plumley and Robinson. This all seemed to me to be a mistake. There were six seniors in CPs sophomore year who could run the motion in their sleep. Now, Welch is on the bench and Higgins is standing on the perimeter as a "decoy" (SC's description). Meanwhile, CP is putting up 5 footers, missing, getting her own rebound, and scoring. Result: two points, one rebound, and a 50% shooting average. This fed the chase for double-doubles, a meaningless statistic and record that sometimes had CP on the court chasing the 10th point or rebound at the end of the game when we were safely ahead and AO was rotting on the bench. This is how it has seemed to me.

 

[Soonerbay]

Bay. I am aware from your numerous posts over the years that you think that SC did not develop (continue to develop) CP during her time at OU. I cannot speak to the background that you describe. I can say that she did not block out as a freshman and she did not block out as a senior. You seem to suggest that she might have played a McFarland-type post game (moving in and out in the motion offense). But SC made the decision after her freshman year (when we ran the 4-1 motion and ran the table in the B12) to go to a "motion-skewed" offense that to me looked like a triangle. The goal was to get the ball to CP in the low post. Brown and Moore could not make the entry pass, the offense stalled, and mid season SC benched Welsch and the two point guards and inserted Plumley at the point and Thompson at the 3 (Rush was 4). Things got a bit better, but the offenses never was in synch until Hand arrived to provide outside balance. Recall that we ended up with two point guards on the court with Plumley and Robinson. This all seemed to me to be a mistake. There were six seniors in CPs sophomore year who could run the motion in their sleep. Now, Welch is on the bench and Higgins is standing on the perimeter as a "decoy" (SC's description). Meanwhile, CP is putting up 5 footers, missing, getting her own rebound, and scoring. Result: two points, one rebound, and a 50% shooting average. This fed the chase for double-doubles, a meaningless statistic and record that sometimes had CP on the court chasing the 10th point or rebound at the end of the game when we were safely ahead and AO was rotting on the bench. This is how it has seemed to me.

Exactly. Was CP the coach too? Just saying...recruit with plan, purpose and strategy. The games should be played the same; each game. It's about match-ups. And thank goodness CP was able to get the rebound and put back after getting a crazy bounce pass at her ankles, have at least 3 defenders foul her and she scores anyway. Did CP need development beyond high school? Absolutely. It showed her freshman, sophomore, junior and senior year. Maybe it was not included in her scholarship.

AO's lack of opportunity still baffles me today. You don't recruit MD's AA's and have them ride pine, unless it's grades or behavior detrimental to the team. AP is another case, although she was given opportunity sporadically, did a great job backing up CP (rather than using AO). If it was about conditioning...CP would not have been playing. In my opinion...developing post has been basically non-existent and recruiting has no rhyme or reason. But if you've read my post, you already know my opinion.

 

[Soonerbay]

So to play Amanda at the 4 who should we have benched, Courtney or Ashley?

Amanda was sort of a tweener when it comes to size; more of a 3, but she was physical! I'm not one that believes every game requires certain positions. It requires certain skills and a game plan. An effective, strategic game plan that includes plans to adjust. There were games where all three played at the same time and were quite successful...when the match-ups made sense.

 

[keysersose]

Exactly. Was CP the coach too? Just saying...recruit with plan, purpose and strategy. The games should be played the same; each game. It's about match-ups. And thank goodness CP was able to get the rebound and put back after getting a crazy bounce pass at her ankles, have at least 3 defenders foul her and she scores anyway. Did CP need development beyond high school? Absolutely. It showed her freshman, sophomore, junior and senior year. Maybe it was not included in her scholarship.

AO's lack of opportunity still baffles me today. You don't recruit MD's AA's and have them ride pine, unless it's grades or behavior detrimental to the team. AP is another case, although she was given opportunity sporadically, did a great job backing up CP (rather than using AO). If it was about conditioning...CP would not have been playing. In my opinion...developing post has been basically non-existent and recruiting has no rhyme or reason. But if you've read my post, you already know my opinion.

AO was quoted someplace as saying that SC offered to redshirt her but she declined. She later wished that she had red-shirted. In any event, both she and AP got in shape, lost weight, and improved dramatically in their senior seasons. Why this was not undertaken in their freshman seasons is the question I have.