Another kruger collapse

[jerry]

And I'm guessing you were against OU hiring an even less unproven coach in Stoops than you were with Capel?

And I understand that Joe C was trying to make a home run hire with a young guy like he did with Stoops and unfortunately it failed.

Joe would probably tell you the same thing. I know he was very frustrated with Jeff at the end and never considered bringing him back. He should have fired him the year before.

 

[152219]

I'm pretty sure a number of folks on this board didn't think Nick Thompson or Tyler Neal were good enough to play at OU, but they were recruited anyway.

Its up to the coach to find the talent available, whoever that may be.

He averaged 34 ppg as a junior at Stringtown and 36 as a sr. How does a player with that amount of scoring not get at least a cursory visit?

As to your point about Kruger not recruiting him, he committed to ISU in September of 2010 and Capel wasn't fired until mid-March 2011 so this recruiting miss is all on Capel.

And there were actually a number of people on this board who were happy with Neal getting a shot at OU. As for Thompson, as I remember it, everyone was scratching their heads about him.

 

[152219]

One day I hope someone can post why OU has had such a difficult time recruiting basketball players from the state of Texas. OU has had a handful but this state has produced a ton of great players in the past 15 years or so and OU has missed on nearly all the best one unlike the Pokes

 

[Big Old Booger]

I'm pretty sure a number of folks on this board didn't think Nick Thompson or Tyler Neal were good enough to play at OU, but they were recruited anyway.

Its up to the coach to find the talent available, whoever that may be.

He averaged 34 ppg as a junior at Stringtown and 36 as a sr. How does a player with that amount of scoring not get at least a cursory visit?

As to your point about Kruger not recruiting him, he committed to ISU in September of 2010 and Capel wasn't fired until mid-March 2011 so this recruiting miss is all on Capel.

Having said all of this about McGee, he was a class B player so I can see why any coach at a major institution would be leary of going after a big fish in a small pond. So, I don't fault Capel for not offering him out of high school, but the big question is did any of the OU staff at least go watch him play just to see if the kid had anything that resembles major college talent? I don't know the answer to this question because I don't follow recruiting.

However, as a kid who grew up going to smaller schools (my elementary school was a rural school that had K-8th grade, no high school; they just won the rural elementary school state title this year :woot) I know the small schools have some talent. Spangler went to Bridge Creek, which was in our conference because they didn't have a high school back then. Minor was from Hammon, Chianti Roberts from OCS, Big Country from Vann, opie at OSU was from Poteau, Royce Jeffries was from Grant (I think), etc. Every year Oklahoma has a good small school player who can play college ball. I just hope the current staff is willing to check into the small schools players to see if someone can play at the major college level because they are out there.

 

[Big Old Booger]

And there were actually a number of people on this board who were happy with Neal getting a shot at OU. As for Thompson, as I remember it, everyone was scratching their heads about him.

I will admit, from everything I was reading on this board about him, 6A POY, good size and good shooter, etc., I thought it was a diamond in the rough. I think Tyler has more talent than hes shown, but if the reports are right that he isn't putting in the extra work then that explains why he's never amounted to anything.

But, I never thought Jason Yannish would amount to anything and he had a huge game vs KU in 96 to help us get the victory. So, Tyler still has time.

 

[152219]

Having said all of this about McGee, he was a class B player so I can see why any coach at a major institution would be leary of going after a big fish in a small pond. So, I don't fault Capel for not offering him out of high school, but the big question is did any of the OU staff at least go watch him play just to see if the kid had anything that resembles major college talent? I don't know the answer to this question because I don't follow recruiting.

However, as a kid who grew up going to smaller schools (my elementary school was a rural school that had K-8th grade, no high school; they just won the rural elementary school state title this year :woot) I know the small schools have some talent. Spangler went to Bridge Creek, which was in our conference because they didn't have a high school back then. Minor was from Hammon, Chianti Roberts from OCS, Big Country from Vann, opie at OSU was from Poteau, Royce Jeffries was from Grant (I think), etc. Every year Oklahoma has a good small school player who can play college ball. I just hope the current staff is willing to check into the small schools players to see if someone can play at the major college level because they are out there.

Bridge Creek is now currently 4A. Funny thing is that I remember when Deer Creek north of Edmond was tiny and I think they are now 5A.

I sent you a PM

 

[Stikboy]

Capel  1) Willie Warren, 2) Tony Neysmith, 3) Blake Griffin, 4) Steven Pledger, 5) TMG, 6) Tiny Gallon, 7) Cameron Clark, 8) Calvin Newell, 9) Romero Osby, 10) (The transfer that played with blake griffin only for one spring I cant remember his name)

To date, capel brought in much better talent. I said that he is not a good mentor or x’s and o’s so you had guys transfer or never develop. But he had no problem bringing in raw talent.

Neysmith, seriously? LOL. That list is formulated from 5 years of Capel recruiting. And like I said earlier, there are asterisks next to half of them. Kruger has had one full year to recruit. Hield, Hornbeak, Woodard.. And Kruger is just now getting momentum, also having to overcome the absolute cluster of a program and probation that Capel left. Might Kruger fail in the future? Maybe. But to compare them at this point as recruiters giving Capel the nod in any way is just dumb.

 

[luckyc1423]

Neysmith, seriously? LOL. That list is formulated from 5 years of Capel recruiting. And like I said earlier, there are asterisks next to half of them. Kruger has had one full year to recruit. Hield, Hornbeak, Woodard.. And Kruger is just now getting momentum, also having to overcome the absolute cluster of a program and probation that Capel left. Might Kruger fail in the future? Maybe. But to compare them at this point as recruiters giving Capel the nod in any way is just dumb.

Do we have any high 4 star or 5 star recruits potentially coming in? I dont know I dont follow recruiting as closely as some of you guys.

Capel had 4 top 4 star/5 star guys. This was an exciting time I remember everyone thinking Capel was the man.

I am by no means a capel fan. And I have stated that he is not a good coach.

But I believe he brought in recruits that made everyone excited. He failed to properly mentor TMG, warren, and gallon and that ultimately was capels failure which lead to our program demolish.

 

[WTSooner]

But I believe he brought in recruits that made everyone excited. He failed to properly mentor TMG, warren, and gallon and that ultimately was capels failure which lead to our program demolish.

There is a reason those three kids weren't as highly recruited as most kids that are rated similarly. Not all headcases can be fixed, or "mentored". Especially not when you get two or three of them together at the same time. The only way Capel showed he could bring in that kind of talent was to get damaged goods, or to luck into somebody like Blake Griffin.

OU has won a LOT of bball games over the years without 4 and 5 star recruits, or with only one of them on a roster. LK is going to win that way. That is his M.O. That is how he coaches.

 

[Max Power]

There is a reason those three kids weren't as highly recruited as most kids that are rated similarly. Not all headcases can be fixed, or "mentored". Especially not when you get two or three of them together at the same time. The only way Capel showed he could bring in that kind of talent was to get damaged goods, or to luck into somebody like Blake Griffin.

OU has won a LOT of bball games over the years without 4 and 5 star recruits, or with only one of them on a roster. LK is going to win that way. That is his M.O. That is how he coaches.

Or have a coach help pay their way

 

[luckyc1423]

There is a reason those three kids weren't as highly recruited as most kids that are rated similarly. Not all headcases can be fixed, or "mentored". Especially not when you get two or three of them together at the same time. The only way Capel showed he could bring in that kind of talent was to get damaged goods, or to luck into somebody like Blake Griffin.

OU has won a LOT of bball games over the years without 4 and 5 star recruits, or with only one of them on a roster. LK is going to win that way. That is his M.O. That is how he coaches.

Not highly recruited?
If im not mistaken Texas and Baylor offered TMG,

Connecticut, kansas, and cincy offered WW.

According to scout.com

WW was recruited and offered by
Oklahoma, arizona, baylor, cincy, connecticut, kansas, kentucky, oklahoma state, texas

TMG was recruited and offered by
oklahoma, baylor, memphis, oklahoma state, texas, texas A&M

Gallon was recruited and offered by
oklhaoma, arizona, arkansas, california, georgetown, mississippi, mississippi state, tennessee, texas A&M, UNLV (was Kruger there then??), USC

 

[DenverSooner]

Do we have any high 4 star or 5 star recruits potentially coming in? I dont know I dont follow recruiting as closely as some of you guys.

Capel had 4 top 4 star/5 star guys. This was an exciting time I remember everyone thinking Capel was the man.

I am by no means a capel fan. And I have stated that he is not a good coach.

But I believe he brought in recruits that made everyone excited. He failed to properly mentor TMG, warren, and gallon and that ultimately was capels failure which lead to our program demolish.

He did a good job landing some big recruits but he massively screwed up with his other scholarships and retaining those big names. The only good team he had was based on role players from the Sampson era (AJ, T. Griffin, and Crocker) an Oklahoma kid (Cade Davis) and two transfers that he managed to keep because the Griffin Brothers were running the team. When Blake was a freshman he had a respectable team and it was even more based on Sampson's role players. They guy could not and did not build a team.

Tell me what these guys have in common: Ahmed Abdul, Nick Thompson, Orlondo Allen, Juan Pattillo, Carl Blair, Calvin Newell, Ray Willis, Tony Neysmith, Chris Early, Bobby Maze, Kyle Cannon and Kyle Hardrick. These are non-elite recruits that did not work out in the Capel era.

Tell me what these guys have in common: Willie Warren, Keith Clark, Tiny Gallon, TMG and TJ Taylor. These are Top 100 recruits that did not work out in the Capel era. (Note I did not count Scottie Reynolds or Damion James)

Tell me what these guys have in common: Chris Walker, Barry Honore, and CJ Washington. These are guys that stayed but probably didn't belong in the Big XII (no offense to any of them, they are all much better athletes than me).


Who are these guys: Cade Davis, Blake Griffin, Omar Leary, Ryan Wright, Cam Clark, Tony Crocker, Romero Osby and Tyler Neal. These are guys that worked out under Capel in that they stayed the appropriate time and made pretty solid contributions to the basketball team.

8 guys in 5 recruiting classes, compared to 20 guys that either didn't work out or probably didn't belong in the Big XII. Now look closer. Crocker was a Sampson recruit that grew up in Lawton before moving to San Antonio for High School (essentially an Oklahoma kid). Davis, Griffin and Neal were Oklahoma kids. Leary, Osby and Wright only had two years and it is almost impossible for guys like Osby and Wright to transfer twice at a D-I level. One four year player that wasn't from Oklahoma in 5 seasons with Capel as the head coach worked out and that is Cam Clark. One Juco transfer worked out. Wtih respect to Cam I believe he is from just south of the border in Sherman, Texas (about as close to an Oklahoma kid as you can get).

I just don't see how you can argue he was a good recruiter. Sure he brought in some big names but they didn't work out.

Someone explain to me what I am missing about this worthless POS coach, Jeffrey Fenton Capel?

 

[luckyc1423]

He did a good job landing some big recruits but he massively screwed up with his other scholarships and retaining those big names. The only good team he had was based on role players from the Sampson era (AJ, T. Griffin, and Crocker) an Oklahoma kid (Cade Davis) and two transfers that he managed to keep because the Griffin Brothers were running the team. When Blake was a freshman he had a respectable team and it was even more based on Sampson's role players. They guy could not and did not build a team.

Tell me what these guys have in common: Ahmed Abdul, Nick Thompson, Orlondo Allen, Juan Pattillo, Carl Blair, Calvin Newell, Ray Willis, Tony Neysmith, Chris Early, Bobby Maze, Kyle Cannon and Kyle Hardrick. These are non-elite recruits that did not work out in the Capel era.

Tell me what these guys have in common: Willie Warren, Keith Clark, Tiny Gallon, TMG and TJ Taylor. These are Top 100 recruits that did not work out in the Capel era. (Note I did not count Scottie Reynolds or Damion James)

Tell me what these guys have in common: Chris Walker, Barry Honore, and CJ Washington. These are guys that stayed but probably didn't belong in the Big XII (no offense to any of them, they are all much better athletes than me).


Who are these guys: Cade Davis, Blake Griffin, Omar Leary, Ryan Wright, Cam Clark, Tony Crocker, Romero Osby and Tyler Neal. These are guys that worked out under Capel in that they stayed the appropriate time and made pretty solid contributions to the basketball team.

8 guys in 5 recruiting classes, compared to 20 guys that either didn't work out or probably didn't belong in the Big XII. Now look closer. Crocker was a Sampson recruit that grew up in Lawton before moving to San Antonio for High School (essentially an Oklahoma kid). Davis, Griffin and Neal were Oklahoma kids. Leary, Osby and Wright only had two years and it is almost impossible for guys like Osby and Wright to transfer twice at a D-I level. One four year player that wasn't from Oklahoma in 5 seasons with Capel as the head coach worked out and that is Cam Clark. One Juco transfer worked out. Wtih respect to Cam I believe he is from just south of the border in Sherman, Texas (about as close to an Oklahoma kid as you can get).

I just don't see how you can argue he was a good recruiter. Sure he brought in some big names but they didn't work out.

Someone explain to me what I am missing about this worthless POS coach, Jeffrey Fenton Capel?

I think I have said something along these lines like 4 times in this thread. capel is not a good coach but i beleive he brought in the talent to win.


If kruger had gallon, tmg, and willie warren I strongly believe he would have been highly successfull with them.
In fact, I think one of the three probably would have stayed another year under him.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I think I have said something along these lines like 4 times in this thread. capel is not a good coach but i beleive he brought in the talent to win.


If kruger had gallon, tmg, and willie warren I strongly believe he would have been highly successfull with them.
In fact, I think one of the three probably would have stayed another year under him.

No, he didn't bring in the talent to win. Read and re-read Denver's post until you understand it, please.

 

[luckyc1423]

No, he didn't bring in the talent to win. Read and re-read Denver's post until you understand it, please.

I have read it plenty of times. A THOUSAND RECRUITS WOULD NOT WORK OUT BECAUSE HE CAN NOT COACH.

however those same thousand recruits might be great under a guy like kruger. So naming off the guys that did not work out under capels tenure is stupid seeing how he was the one coaching. If kruger was coaching them I am pretty sure things would have been different

 

[Big Old Booger]

I have read it plenty of times. A THOUSAND RECRUITS WOULD NOT WORK OUT BECAUSE HE CAN NOT COACH.

however those same thousand recruits might be great under a guy like kruger. So naming off the guys that did not work out under capels tenure is stupid seeing how he was the one coaching. If kruger was coaching them I am pretty sure things would have been different

Yes, for one, Kruger wouldn't have recruited most of those guys.

Blake Griffin, Cade Davis and Tyler Neal as those were local guys, and maybe not Neal because we needed depth when he was offered due to our numbers.

Other than that, no 90% of those guys were recruited by Kruger. He wouldn't have paid Tiny to get him here and he wouldn't have put up with TMG and WW's crap either.

 

[luckyc1423]

Funny how people change their mind. once again I point out capel could recruit HE JUST COULDT COACH THOSE RECRUITS.

Just because its convenient to bash him (im no capel fan) doesnt mean he didnt have any good qualities.

To prove my point I dug up some of DenverSooner's old posts agreeing that he could recruit. He agrees he brought in the best talent (now he distorts this with how well they played in their career at OU. But if you take into account capel could not coach, they of course they wouldnt have done well. It would have been totally different under kruger.)

Heck OU is getting so much talent Tony Crocker is beginning to be looked at as a role player (no offense to Tony because I still think he is a big time talent).
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=566&highlight=capel+recruit&page=2

Sampson did an outstanding job of recruting after the LNC was renovated.
Now with that said, Capel has done a better job of recruiting. This latest edition is about as good as OU has ever signed.http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=566&highlight=capel+recruit&page=2

What I like about this class is I think Capel got exactly what he needed. Blake and Taylor are gone next year. So OU really doesn't know what they will have up front. Now OU has 6 big bodies and only needs two of them to produce and 1 to give real minutes off the bench.

More importantly, Capel signed a top notch point as well as pure shooting guard. Combine that with the plethera of talent he has on the wings already and OU is loaded in the back court.


Many times in the past I have felt like OU went for what they needed but really had to take the best available players. Capel seems to know exactly what he wants and then he gets it. That is not to say if you told him he could have any 5 guys these 5 are necessarily the 5 he would have taken. Rather, he seems to target several at each position that are top 100 guys and then go get one of them. Outside of Michigan in the early 90s no one gets to take the 5 best players from high school (They really were not the 5 best but they were awfully good).
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1234&highlight=capel+recruit

OU went to the final four twice in the last twenty years with zero McD AA. When Hollis led the team OU only had a few top 100 recruits (some of the juco guys were pretty highly regarded in high school, particularly McGhee). Hollis was a top 75-100 guy. Capel is going to have an entire roster of Top 100 recruits. Neither Tubbs or Sampson could recruit like this.
I hope Jeff stays at OU for his career because when he combines his recruiting with another 10 years of coaching experience he is going to be one of the very best if not clearly the best coach. Young coaches like Bill Self are almost 10 years older than Jeff Capel. I just cannot imagine how good Jeff Capel is going to be. Just imagine in 10 or 15 years when he gets all the calls and has conference championships, NCAA runs and possibly even National championships to mention when he is recruiting.

I truly believe Capel has the potential at this point in his career to be one of the all time winningest coaches in the history of collge basketball (assuming of course he wants to work until his 70s like Knight, Smith, Sutton and some of the other legends have done). When Capel is 50 (which is still pretty young) he will have 20+ years of experience as a D-1 coach. By 70 he will have 40+ years. If he averages 25 wins a season (obviously a high standard but based on what he has done that is not outrageous), he will have over 1,000 wins. With the money guys make now, the greats may not want to coach as long but it is not like Knight, Sutton or Smith needed the money at the end of their careers.
http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3314&highlight=capel+recruit&page=2

 

[WTSooner]

Yeah lucky, fans get excited and say things that aren't really true, or likely to happen. Getting excited about the recruitment of those guys, at the time, is a lot different then trying to prove, as of today, that they were still good recruits. We have time on our side now, and we can look back. You can blame coaching or whatever you want, but if that is all that those kids were missing, they'd be doing better than they are right now. Instead, WW is playing overseas with a TON of other Sooners that were much less hyped, and I couldn't tell you what Tiny or TMG were doing. I'm sure Tiny is out polishing one of his three cars, or something.

 

[luckyc1423]

Yeah lucky, fans get excited and say things that aren't really true, or likely to happen. Getting excited about the recruitment of those guys, at the time, is a lot different then trying to prove, as of today, that they were still good recruits. We have time on our side now, and we can look back. You can blame coaching or whatever you want, but if that is all that those kids were missing, they'd be doing better than they are right now. Instead, WW is playing overseas with a TON of other Sooners that were much less hyped, and I couldn't tell you what Tiny or TMG were doing. I'm sure Tiny is out polishing one of his three cars, or something.

I never said guys like tmg or ww were nba type players. But what I am saying is that they could have been extremely accomplished under the right coach. They were extremely talented for the college level.

And as far as things go of people saying things they don't mean because they are excited the same goes for people saying things that aren't true when they are pissed off.

I am just as mad as the next person towards capel, however I'm not blind sided saying he had no recruiting qualities.

 

[Max Power]

Yeah lucky, fans get excited and say things that aren't really true, or likely to happen. Getting excited about the recruitment of those guys, at the time, is a lot different then trying to prove, as of today, that they were still good recruits. We have time on our side now, and we can look back. You can blame coaching or whatever you want, but if that is all that those kids were missing, they'd be doing better than they are right now. Instead, WW is playing overseas with a TON of other Sooners that were much less hyped, and I couldn't tell you what Tiny or TMG were doing. I'm sure Tiny is out polishing one of his three cars, or something.

last i heard tmg was in europe