Another kruger collapse

[Max Power]

You say he's done a great job...what wins outside of those 3 is the best?

Those three equal the same amount your boy had his last three years combined

 

[DenverSooner]

Why should the 2010 team have a losing record?

Starting lineup:

W - Tony Crocker SR. (solid 4 year starter in Big XII conference)
SG - WW Soph. (should have been 1st Team All Big XII)
PG - TMG Fr. (one of the best pgs in the conference if not the country)
PF/C - Ryan Wright SR. (top 50 high school player, two years at UCLA, redshirt year at OU and one year of playing under Capel)
PF/C - Tiny Gallon Fr. (Very talented and highly rated freshman)


Bench
Cade Davis W/SG JR. (energy, defense, three point shooting)
Fitzgerald F Fr. (offensive production)
Pledger SG/W Fr. (three point shooting from the bench)
Ray Willis SG/W Soph (not sure, Capel never managed to show us what he could do but did once characterize him as a kid with NBA talent)
Allen C Jr. (redshirt, second year in program, defense, shot block, foul people)

That is not a terribly young team. What that team lacked was a coach and accountability. Capel also was two players short and a scholarship was used on Hardrick. Had Capel properly had a back up pg and a serviceable forward he could have bench TMG and/or Tiny when their attitudes were bad. But Capel F'd up, had no options and lost control of his team. Even with those recruiting mistakes, there is zero reason for that team to have posted a losing record.

 

[jerry]

You say he's done a great job...what wins outside of those 3 is the best?

He has done a great job because he has cleaned up a gigantic mess that Capel created for the program. Kruger is in the right place and Capel is in the right place as a #3 assistant whose biggest responsibility is to cuss opposing fans when they rush the court after Duke loses.

 

[WaymanFan]

Since I like(d) both coaches, let me try some objectivity. First, the 2009-2010 team was far and away the most underachieving OU team of all time. I can't imagine anyone making excuses for that dreadful season. Of course, those who are making excuses for it are probably tired of hearing about Coach Capel getting zero credit for anything that was positive during his time here (Blake Griffin, Elite Eight, Romero Osby, OU finally winning a 1st round toss-up game). Still, call it like it was - a disaster.

Coach Kruger is an obvious upgrade from the previous regime. I can't imagine anyone on this board questioning that. Still, a veteran team lost a 22-point lead with 8 minutes left, then lost to a team not in the RPI top 200, and finally, lost a conference tournament game after having control of the first 30-something minutes of that game. Losing 1 of those 3 would be understandable, but all 3? Sorry, but the head coach has to shoulder a good chunk of that blame.

Now, all we can hope for is a chance to win a couple of NCAA Tournament games to put the stink of the past few weeks behind us.

 

[152219]

Why should the 2010 team have a losing record?

Starting lineup:

W - Tony Crocker SR. (solid 4 year starter in Big XII conference)
SG - WW Soph. (should have been 1st Team All Big XII)
PG - TMG Fr. (one of the best pgs in the conference if not the country)
PF/C - Ryan Wright SR. (top 50 high school player, two years at UCLA, redshirt year at OU and one year of playing under Capel)
PF/C - Tiny Gallon Fr. (Very talented and highly rated freshman)


Bench
Cade Davis W/SG JR. (energy, defense, three point shooting)
Fitzgerald F Fr. (offensive production)
Pledger SG/W Fr. (three point shooting from the bench)
Ray Willis SG/W Soph (not sure, Capel never managed to show us what he could do but did once characterize him as a kid with NBA talent)
Allen C Jr. (redshirt, second year in program, defense, shot block, foul people)

That is not a terribly young team. What that team lacked was a coach and accountability. Capel also was two players short and a scholarship was used on Hardrick. Had Capel properly had a back up pg and a serviceable forward he could have bench TMG and/or Tiny when their attitudes were bad. But Capel F'd up, had no options and lost control of his team. Even with those recruiting mistakes, there is zero reason for that team to have posted a losing record.

WW was hurt almost the entire year. I think he only had 1 or 2 dunks all year which should be enough proof he wasn't healthy. To be honest Crocker had a bad year shooting the ball his senior year and it played a factor in what happened. But the implosion, which I assume was led by TMG wanting to get his and Capel not controlling the team is how that team went from a fringe bubble team to a bad team. Gallon was also immature it appeared but at the end it looked like he was coming around and then the TMZ report dropped

 

[152219]

TMG didn't just leave, he told Capel when Jeff recruited him he was only playing 1 year, which is fine when you know the kid is good enough to go pro after 1 year. TMG was not. The problem, however, Capel didn't recruit anyone else in the event TMG kept his word and then we get D-3 PG Carl Blair who wouldn't start for any other program in the conference.

Really, as abysmal as the 2010 season was, it pales in comparison to the 2011 turd of a team. I could have lived with 2010 had we had a season in 2011 like UNC or UConn, but we didn't. Instead, we were the worst team in the conference, but thank goodness for the 2 divisions so our record was better than ISU.

This is the first time I have read about TMG telling Capel he was a one and done. When did this become common knowledge? Yes settling for Blair was obviously a mistake.

The 2011 team was a lot less talented than the 2010 team but I preferred the 2011 team because it appeared they were at least trying and it appeared Capel was trying to get back some control but that team had so little overall talent that trying hard still resulted in a losing season.

 

[jerry]

This is the first time I have read about TMG telling Capel he was a one and done. When did this become common knowledge? Yes settling for Blair was obviously a mistake.

The 2011 team was a lot less talented than the 2010 team but I preferred the 2011 team because it appeared they were at least trying and it appeared Capel was trying to get back some control but that team had so little overall talent that trying hard still resulted in a losing season.

Among other things like cheating ( he new Gallon was paid) and severe mismanagement of recruiting budget, as well as, a very negative attitude on campus.

One way you can always judge a coach is did they leave the program better than when they got there. Capel fails miserably on this issue and Kruger is a super star in this category. Just look at what Self got at Illinois and where UNLV is today for reference.

 

[Big Old Booger]

This is the first time I have read about TMG telling Capel he was a one and done. When did this become common knowledge? Yes settling for Blair was obviously a mistake.

The 2011 team was a lot less talented than the 2010 team but I preferred the 2011 team because it appeared they were at least trying and it appeared Capel was trying to get back some control but that team had so little overall talent that trying hard still resulted in a losing season.

A few days after TMG announced, Capel admitted in a newspaper article TMG had told him during the recruiting period he was going pro after 1 year. Capel said in the article he would recruit him again if given the chance and knowing how the story ended (the last part is my words).

 

[Big Old Booger]

Among other things like cheating ( he new Gallon was paid) and severe mismanagement of recruiting budget, as well as, a very negative attitude on campus.

One way you can always judge a coach is did they leave the program better than when they got there. Capel fails miserably on this issue and Kruger is a super star in this category. Just look at what Self got at Illinois and where UNLV is today for reference.

Altman inherited a good team at KSU and Donovan inherited a great program at Florida.

 

[WTSooner]

What is our best win outside of our 1 win against KU, ISU, and OSU?

You have a really warped way of looking at things.

Part of being a solid team on the rise is simply beating the teams you should. OU was 6-1 in league games against TCU, TT, WVU, and the one game against UT without Kabongo (since with him they aren't a bottom Big 12 team). We finished FOURTH in the Big 12.....we must have accumulated a decent amount of wins somehow.

 

[152219]

Among other things like cheating ( he new Gallon was paid) and severe mismanagement of recruiting budget, as well as, a very negative attitude on campus.

One way you can always judge a coach is did they leave the program better than when they got there. Capel fails miserably on this issue and Kruger is a super star in this category. Just look at what Self got at Illinois and where UNLV is today for reference.

I would argue that the program Capel left was slightly worse than when he got there. Have to remember, Capel entered with OU going on probation with Sampson's best recruiting class falling apart. But, he did leave it off worse which is a black mark.

And if we are going to talk about the negative attitude on campus, his predecessor didn't have a hugely positive attitude on the campus as well IMIO. And how would I know...because I was on campus from '95-'99 and Kruger has done more to make an effort on the campus than Sampson and Capel combined. And neither Sampson or Capel had a positive attitude with the big boosters as well from what I've been told by the people who fit that bill and are very passionate about OU basketball. Haven't had that type of conversation about Kruger with the people I know yet, but no doubt in my mind that isn't an issue.

And no doubt Kruger has a great history of leaving a program better than where he left it and I expect him to do the same at OU.

I'm still of the opinion that Joe C made a great decision to right the ship by hiring Kruger. The guy is a program fixer from top to bottom.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Since I like(d) both coaches, let me try some objectivity. First, the 2009-2010 team was far and away the most underachieving OU team of all time. I can't imagine anyone making excuses for that dreadful season. Of course, those who are making excuses for it are probably tired of hearing about Coach Capel getting zero credit for anything that was positive during his time here (Blake Griffin, Elite Eight, Romero Osby, OU finally winning a 1st round toss-up game). Still, call it like it was - a disaster.

Coach Kruger is an obvious upgrade from the previous regime. I can't imagine anyone on this board questioning that. Still, a veteran team lost a 22-point lead with 8 minutes left, then lost to a team not in the RPI top 200, and finally, lost a conference tournament game after having control of the first 30-something minutes of that game. Losing 1 of those 3 would be understandable, but all 3? Sorry, but the head coach has to shoulder a good chunk of that blame.

Now, all we can hope for is a chance to win a couple of NCAA Tournament games to put the stink of the past few weeks behind us.

I will admit, beating St Joes in the first round was awesome, but the 30 point loss to Louisville 2 days later completely removed any positives earned by beating St Joes. That was embarrassing, especially when you consider we had the best player on the court.

 

[152219]

I will admit, beating St Joes in the first round was awesome, but the 30 point loss to Louisville 2 days later completely removed any positives earned by beating St Joes. That was embarrassing, especially when you consider we had the best player on the court.

Yes it was. OU's guards couldn't handle their pressure. To be honest, if this year's team played Louisville I would expect a blowout as well because this year's guards would throw the ball away just like that team's did.

 

[152219]

Since I like(d) both coaches, let me try some objectivity. First, the 2009-2010 team was far and away the most underachieving OU team of all time. I can't imagine anyone making excuses for that dreadful season. Of course, those who are making excuses for it are probably tired of hearing about Coach Capel getting zero credit for anything that was positive during his time here (Blake Griffin, Elite Eight, Romero Osby, OU finally winning a 1st round toss-up game). Still, call it like it was - a disaster.

Coach Kruger is an obvious upgrade from the previous regime. I can't imagine anyone on this board questioning that. Still, a veteran team lost a 22-point lead with 8 minutes left, then lost to a team not in the RPI top 200, and finally, lost a conference tournament game after having control of the first 30-something minutes of that game. Losing 1 of those 3 would be understandable, but all 3? Sorry, but the head coach has to shoulder a good chunk of that blame.

Now, all we can hope for is a chance to win a couple of NCAA Tournament games to put the stink of the past few weeks behind us.

My thoughts exactly. Like I said in either this thread or another yesterday that the Capel bashers and supporters spin the story/argument for their own good, whereas in most cases it is somewhere in the middle.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Yes it was. OU's guards couldn't handle their pressure. To be honest, if this year's team played Louisville I would expect a blowout as well because this year's guards would throw the ball away just like that team's did.

I watched Louisville vs Notre Dame and I wasn't impressed with Louisville. The biggest problem for us would be their pressure but I'm confident LK would find a way to overcome it. I doubt we could beat them, but we wouldn't lose by 30, IMO.

 

[152219]

I watched Louisville vs Notre Dame and I wasn't impressed with Louisville. The biggest problem for us would be their pressure but I'm confident LK would find a way to overcome it. I doubt we could beat them, but we wouldn't lose by 30, IMO.

Loyisville's pressure is constant and better than anything Texas threw out at OU. Louisville beats this year's team easily by double digits IMO

 

[152219]

And I would venture to guess you would have never guessed OU would be down to TCU by 25 points in the second half last week as well

 

[luckyc1423]

Ok, I may be wrong, but I dont think anyone is saying Kruger is the best coach in the world. But he is perfect for our situation.

Is he a national championship type coach....no....He doesnt recruit enough talent. However he is the perfect coach to get us turned around and back into the top 25 at some point.

I think Capel has some good qualities as well. In my opinion he was a heck of a recruiter. He could bring in talent.
However alot of highly talented guys think they are the sh%t and need to be coached and mentored and this is were capel struggles. He is not a good mentor or a X's and O's guy but he could bring in talent.

So if you could mix Capel and Krugers best qualities you would have one heck of a coach.

Now, do I think we should keep kruger for 10 years? My opinion is no because I will never feel confident that he can bring us to the level I would like to be at. However he is perfect for now and for our situation now to get us turned around.

 

[WTSooner]

If you can't see that LK is building this program back up, similar to the way Sampson did it, than I don't know what to say.

He stabilized the roster. He's bringing in talented young kids. The roster is balanced. There hasn't been a bunch of turnover year to year. We've seem improvement year to year. Although it didn't seem so late in the season, it's obvious LK has focused on improving the defense.

I have no doubts we are headed in the right direction. Those that think we can go from what Capel left us, to the penthouse, in 2-3 seasons are nuts. Took Billy awhile to get OU to the level he did, and it took Kelvin a while to get it to his peak.

 

[Stikboy]

Capel being able to bring in talent is one of the biggest misnomers I've ever heard. Yeah, he could bring in talent, like Nick Thompson? Omar Leary? Carl Blair? The highly rated guys he did bring in were backed off of by major programs. See Warren, TMG, Gallon.... And we all know Blake came because of Taylor. Name one player without OU ties, with good character, etc who Capel beat out any other at least decent named programs for. Now, if becoming pals with top recruits only to finish in fifth or sixth place for them qualifies as being a great recruiter, then heck yeah he's just fantastic!