Another "old"mans observation

[oketex]

Guys, great comments! Does anyone have an idea as to what is really wrong with this team other than youth? Looking at the lineup last night, all but Cade coming back but if you don't know how to win how is that going to help you win in the future?


I have no ideas and I have been going to Sooner games for 60 yrs and have seen good as well as bad and I am still lost.

Have a great day and God bless!

 

[NormanPride]

The reason we got owned in the second half was that A&M decided to rebound. We couldn't keep up because we have no toughness.

 

[campbest]

+ 1

That goes for all these young players. I think we expect too much too soon.

Agree, this applies for Clark and Neal.

However, for the guys like Pledger, Fitz, etc...any college coach will tell you that you pretty much know what type of player you have toward the end of their sophomore year. The greatest jump in improvement comes between that point and the end of the freshman season.

Capel has to land some impact players in this spring signing period (preferably to help on the glass) b/c I honestly don't think Blair, Pledge and Fitz are going to hit some astronomical ceiling.

 

[bgrch1350]

Guys, great comments! Does anyone have an idea as to what is really wrong with this team other than youth? Looking at the lineup last night, all but Cade coming back but if you don't know how to win how is that going to help you win in the future? Experience means a lot in college these days. Not always the whole team but you can't be loaded w/ young players and expect them to compete at a high level the entire game and do all the little things that help win games. aTm is a perfect example of youth mixed in w/ experience. They have maintained a level of winning b/c they don't bring in guys who are going to bolt after a year or 2 but they continue to have experience on their roster. Your looking at 2 seniors and 2 juniors starting this year for them and you can expect 2 seniors and 2 juniors to be starting for them next year. Unless you can consistently bring in top players every year, then your going to have to change your recruiting technique and you can see that Capel has done that. Your looking at a squad that will be experience the next couple of years.


I have no ideas and I have been going to Sooner games for 60 yrs and have seen good as well as bad and I am still lost.

Have a great day and God bless!

l

 

[bgrch1350]

Agree, this applies for Clark and Neal.

However, for the guys like Pledger, Fitz, etc...any college coach will tell you that you pretty much know what type of player you have toward the end of their sophomore year. The greatest jump in improvement comes between that point and the end of the freshman season.

Capel has to land some impact players in this spring signing period (preferably to help on the glass) b/c I honestly don't think Blair, Pledge and Fitz are going to hit some astronomical ceiling. I don't know if he needs impact players or if he just needs key players. I'm not ready to sell Blair as pg, but I know we at least need a solid pg who can run point...whether he starts or comes off the bench. I don't know what to expect from Pledger and Fitz but I do know that from year 1 to year 2 they improved a lot...I have no doubt that they could improve even more from year 2 to year 3. And I'm not ready to write off Washington either. I could see him making a huge impact next year.

I like the foundation that we have coming back...b/c we have a starter right now at every position. It would be nice if we could get some guys in here that will compete and challenges these players for minutes. Right now thats what we are lacking.

 

[campbest]

I like the foundation that we have coming back...b/c we have a starter right now at every position. It would be nice if we could get some guys in here that will compete and challenges these players for minutes. Right now thats what we are lacking.

The problem I have is just because we have a starter coming back at every position, doesn't mean they should be starting.

Blair is serviceable, but he's going to be a liability if you hope to contend. He does a good job getting assists at times, but his A/TO is still 1.3.

Clark, will improve as he is a freshman, not worried.

Pledger, just don't see a huge jump in improvement coming...unless he breaks out of his shooting funk. He's never going to be an elite defender, does not handle the rock particularly well, cannot run PG, is not a great rebounder for his position. To compound all of that, he's already playing 30+ minutes a game, what more experience does he need? Maybe with the addtion of talent next year Pledge can just concentrate on making shots, do what he does well (at times) and stay away from his weaknesses.

Fitz's biggest problems can't be fixed. He's not going to grow and he will never be a high and explosive jumper. Sure his post moves might get a little better, but we know what he brings to the table at this point.

I just see games like last night, where we put up 42 points in 38 minutes with Cade getting most of those and can't help but be concerned about next year's team.

 

[Section31]

The problem I have is just because we have a starter coming back at every position, doesn't mean they should be starting.

Blair is serviceable, but he's going to be a liability if you hope to contend. He does a good job getting assists at times, but his A/TO is still 1.3.

Clark, will improve as he is a freshman, not worried.

Pledger, just don't see a huge jump in improvement coming...unless he breaks out of his shooting funk. He's never going to be an elite defender, does not handle the rock particularly well, cannot run PG, is not a great rebounder for his position. To compound all of that, he's already playing 30+ minutes a game, what more experience does he need? Maybe with the addtion of talent next year Pledge can just concentrate on making shots, do what he does well (at times) and stay away from his weaknesses.

Fitz's biggest problems can't be fixed. He's not going to grow and he will never be a high and explosive jumper. Sure his post moves might get a little better, but we know what he brings to the table at this point.

I just see games like last night, where we put up 42 points in 38 minutes with Cade getting most of those and can't help but be concerned about next year's team.

All very good points.

Let me ask you this...don't you think Blair's numbers A/TO would be better if the guys he's passing it do made more shots??? That's OBVIOUSLY a rhetorical question, and I'm one who thinks Blair is limited, but I also think he has a chance to improve and be more than serviceable.

 

[campbest]

All very good points.

Let me ask you this...don't you think Blair's numbers A/TO would be better if the guys he's passing it do made more shots??? That's OBVIOUSLY a rhetorical question, and I'm one who thinks Blair is limited, but I also think he has a chance to improve and be more than serviceable.

Like you said, it is sort of rhetorical.

But to counter that, I would say not necessarily. We lose Cade, so that will cut into his #'s. Furthermore, from the time I have watched OU this year, we are primarily a wing feeding system...meaning most of Fitz's touches are coming from Pledge, Cade and Cam. This is primarily drawn up so our shooters can run off splits...Carl is not a shooter.

This may change next year, but I don't see him drastically improving in this area.

 

[Section31]

Like you said, it is sort of rhetorical.

But to counter that, I would say not necessarily. We lose Cade, so that will cut into his #'s. Furthermore, from the time I have watched OU this year, we are primarily a wing feeding system...meaning most of Fitz's touches are coming from Pledge, Cade and Cam. This is primarily drawn up so our shooters can run off splits...Carl is not a shooter.

This may change next year, but I don't see him drastically improving in this area.

I guess what I mean is, I believe Cam may be much improved next year as a scorer. While we all LOVE Cade, I don't think its a stretch to think Cam has more upside as a scorer. Plus, Osby COULD help that as well. And, I just think Blair may improve as an overall PG.

But, of course, it's all conjecture at this point.

 

[buttermaker1]

I really want to know what you found out about those coach's during their rebuilding seasons?

Who cares Capel hasn't proven he can win without BG. BG isn't coming back to OU. He has failed as OU's coach, time to try someone else. 3 horrible seasons out of 5. Ou is the laughting stock of the big 12 right now.

I have more pride than this.

 

[scrybe]

They also had a 6 minute drought before halftime. Had we been able to score some points during that 6 minute span and the 6 minute span after the halftime, we are in that game at the end.

I will say the shot selection is really bad, and the rebounding is even worse. I just don't know how you can't attribute that to coaching? Most of the time when a sooner player put up a shot, all of our players headed to the other end to play defense. Hardly anybody went for the rebound. I'd like to see how many possessions we had with only 1 shot at the goal.

Does anybody know if a stat exists that would track this? I guess I could get it from soonersports.com.

:ez-laugh: It's a given that no matter what I post, you are standing by waiting to disagree. Sometimes it seems like you've already trashed my post before I even have time to hit the "submit" button. But that's okay.

Anyhow, I don't disagree that the Sooners' rebounding is atrocious, though I'd be surprised if the kids are being coached to not go after rebounds. They have no height at all, so they're normally gonna be outrebounded in any case. It may be that Capel and his staff believe that the only chance they have against good teams like A&M is to hope their shots fall, and when they don't, they need to get down the court and get their defense set as quickly as possible and avoid as many fast-break layups as possible.

I'm sure you'll tell me – and most eloquently – how wrong I am and why.

 

[colston15]

All very good points.

Let me ask you this...don't you think Blair's numbers A/TO would be better if the guys he's passing it do made more shots??? That's OBVIOUSLY a rhetorical question, and I'm one who thinks Blair is limited, but I also think he has a chance to improve and be more than serviceable.

It's my opinion that Carl Blair would look a lot better if we had other player(s) capable of handling the basketball.

Most teams don't rely solely on one guy to handle the ball. Look around the conference, who handles the ball more than Blair?

 

[bgrch1350]

Who cares Capel hasn't proven he can win without BG. BG isn't coming back to OU. He has failed as OU's coach, time to try someone else. 3 horrible seasons out of 5. Ou is the laughting stock of the big 12 right now.

I have more pride than this.

Your pride is bandwagon pride. And if you can't come up w/ a reason why those coach's get passes when they have better talent than us during their down year after coming off a great year then it proves that it is nothing more than bandwagon support.

I'm so tired of hearing Blake Griffin, Blake Griffin. I don't yell Tyler Hansbrough, Derrick Rose, The Butler kid, Noah and Horford, Tyreke Evans, Alec Burke...I've seen coach's not win with great talent. BCG sure the hell didn't win w/ Patterson...you remember him...1st round draft pick. Baylor has the #1 draft pick right now and they might not make the tournament. Get over yourself and your Blake Griffin love...Capel got us there just as much as he did.

 

[bgrch1350]

I also like to point out that Capel took us to the elite 8 w/ Griffin....Barnes couldn't get out of the 2nd round w/ Durant...Remember him...someone who was and still is better than Griffin. They also had a better PG(Augustin) and Better PF(James).

 

[Big Old Booger]

:ez-laugh: It's a given that no matter what I post, you are standing by waiting to disagree. Sometimes it seems like you've already trashed my post before I even have time to hit the "submit" button. But that's okay.

Anyhow, I don't disagree that the Sooners' rebounding is atrocious, though I'd be surprised if the kids are being coached to not go after rebounds. They have no height at all, so they're normally gonna be outrebounded in any case. It may be that Capel and his staff believe that the only chance they have against good teams like A&M is to hope their shots fall, and when they don't, they need to get down the court and get their defense set as quickly as possible and avoid as many fast-break layups as possible.

I'm sure you'll tell me – and most eloquently – how wrong I am and why.

I apologize if I've ever come across as attacking you or your opinion. That is not my intent. I do comment on your posts like I do many others by other posters. Just because we disagree doesn't mean you are an idiot or anything of the sort and if I come across that way then I am truly sorry.

As for rebounding, we worked on rebounding drills every day back when I played (junior high and high school level). It was a physical...we always had somebody getting a bloody lip or nose, but it instilled in us the importance of putting a body on somebody and pushing them out.

I don't believe the coaches instruct the team to head back downcourt to setup the defense especially when you play as much man-to-man as we do. I think part of it is we are not physical enough and that comes from Capel's style and I think some of these guys don't want to mix it up and put a body on someone. IMO, that goes back to Capel because he has to stress to them the importance of 2nd and 3rd chance points because nobody shoots 100%. I like Honore and Washington and both are good rebounders. I know both have limitations, but one of them should be on the floor as much as possible just to hit the glass. Look at the OSU game, how many follow shots did Honore get? 3 or 4 I think.

Tubbs and Sampson routinely had small teams, but their players knew the importance of rebounding.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I also like to point out that Capel took us to the elite 8 w/ Griffin....Barnes couldn't get out of the 2nd round w/ Durant...Remember him...someone who was and still is better than Griffin. They also had a better PG(Augustin) and Better PF(James).

You can't draw any conclusions from that. Just like we can't conclude that Sampson was a better coach than Lute Olsen just because we beat Arizona in 99 in the first round and advanced to the Sweet 16.

The year Texas had Durant, they played their best basketball in late February and were on the downhill slide by the time March came around. They were lucky to beat Baylor in OKC and Baylor was nothing that year (we swept them).

Sometimes teams peak too early. In 1989, we had 2 first round draft picks as well as Skeeter Henry and a bevy of young talent and lost in the Sweet 16 to Virginia and a lesser team. Was Virginia better than us? No, we just lost the game because we had already peaked. Had East Tennessee State beaten us in round 1, did that mean ETSU's coach was better than Tubbs? No.

 

[DenverSooner]

A&M decided to play? And we missed our first eight (wide open) shots of the second half. As I type this Tyler Neal is bricking another open three.

But yeah, it was Capel's fault.

Is a coach never responsible for performance? Was John Blake not responsible for the poor performance of the OU football team in 1998 just as Bob Stoops was responsbile for the substantially better performance in 1999?

I think Capel should get one more year but some of you guys are amazing that you see nothing wrong with his performance. How is it alright to blame Tyler Neal but not Jeff Capel?

 

[colston15]

Is a coach never responsible for performance? Was John Blake not responsible for the poor performance of the OU football team in 1998 just as Bob Stoops was responsbile for the substantially better performance in 1999?

I think Capel should get one more year but some of you guys are amazing that you see nothing wrong with his performance. How is it alright to blame Tyler Neal but not Jeff Capel?

Blaming Capel for Neal missing open shots would be like blaming Stoops for receivers dropping passes.

I'd blame Capel if we didn't get any open shots.

Ultimately, the blame does revert back to Capel because we don't have guys that make open shots with any regularity.

But yes, I do blame the shooter for missing the shots, not the coach. I know, wild.

 

[bgrch1350]

You can't draw any conclusions from that. Just like we can't conclude that Sampson was a better coach than Lute Olsen just because we beat Arizona in 99 in the first round and advanced to the Sweet 16.

The year Texas had Durant, they played their best basketball in late February and were on the downhill slide by the time March came around. They were lucky to beat Baylor in OKC and Baylor was nothing that year (we swept them).

Sometimes teams peak too early. In 1989, we had 2 first round draft picks as well as Skeeter Henry and a bevy of young talent and lost in the Sweet 16 to Virginia and a lesser team. Was Virginia better than us? No, we just lost the game because we had already peaked. Had East Tennessee State beaten us in round 1, did that mean ETSU's coach was better than Tubbs? No.

The point is...All the credit goes to Blake and none to Capel even though he went as far as they could in the tournament. And everyone says Blake is this once in a lifetime player...well Durant was better than Blake in college and out of college. So I look at our coach and see that he got it done w/ a great player...while Barnes couldn't get out of the 2nd round w/ a great player. I'm not saying that Capel is better than Barnes...but I am saying that Capel got it done w/ a great player while Barnes didn't.

And the truth of the matter is...Even though we struggled early last year...The ending could have been a different story(no doubt it would have been) if Warren wasn't hurt for most of the big 12. I think we would have had a winning record.

 

[Section31]

well Durant was better than Blake in college and out of college.

I'm not sure the first part of this statement is ENTIRELY true and it would make for nice debate. The second part is a work in progress. KD certainly didn't set the ENTIRE NBA, it's coaches, fans, players and media on it's ear like BG has in his rookie season...but, KD is, at this point, the superior player...