Barkley ripping the Big East

[SuperHoops]

Is it true that Barkley asked Pitino if he knew a lot about Morehead?

 

[campbest]

I said it before the tournament. Every season we hear how fantabulous the Big EastPN is out of the east coast driven media conglomerate in Storrs and most years they disappoint. Next season the hype machination will be put back into full effect and the Big EastPN will drop between 8-10 teams in the tournament and more deserving teams from other major conferences will be left in the NIT for the Big EastPN to advance one or two of those teams into the 2nd weekend of action per the norm.

Fact of the matter about the Big EastPN is that they have had 16 more bids than any other conference since 2000; 18 more than the Big 12. The Big 12, at this moment, has had one fewer sweet 16 rep than the Big EastPN, our lead on them in regional finals will remain unless both of their teams advance and Kansas chokes (which only allows them to tie us), and I am willing to bet based on the brackets and Kansas' road the next two games we take the lead in Final Four appearances on them since 2000.

When it counts: Big 12 basketball > Big EastPN basketball.

Who deserved to get in and over which team?

 

[DenverSooner]

I said it before the tournament. Every season we hear how fantabulous the Big EastPN is out of the east coast driven media conglomerate in Storrs and most years they disappoint. Next season the hype machination will be put back into full effect and the Big EastPN will drop between 8-10 teams in the tournament and more deserving teams from other major conferences will be left in the NIT for the Big EastPN to advance one or two of those teams into the 2nd weekend of action per the norm.

Fact of the matter about the Big EastPN is that they have had 16 more bids than any other conference since 2000; 18 more than the Big 12. The Big 12, at this moment, has had one fewer sweet 16 rep than the Big EastPN, our lead on them in regional finals will remain unless both of their teams advance and Kansas chokes (which only allows them to tie us), and I am willing to bet based on the brackets and Kansas' road the next two games we take the lead in Final Four appearances on them since 2000.

When it counts: Big 12 basketball > Big EastPN basketball.

I agree. I have always thought the Big XII was a better basketball conference. The problem is our fans are so darn insecure we buy into this nonsense that we don't have a good basketball conference.

 

[WTSooner]

I agree. I have always thought the Big XII was a better basketball conference. The problem is our fans are so darn insecure we buy into this nonsense that we don't have a good basketball conference.

Nobody said the Big 12 isn't a good basketball conference.

It's not as good as the Big East though. Some of that is due to the size of that conference, but they have basketball powers up and down the conference. We have KU. They have Syracuse, Georgetown, UCONN, Louisville, Nova. Sure, they have some crap teams too, but their best is better than our best.

 

[DenverSooner]

Nobody said the Big 12 isn't a good basketball conference.

It's not as good as the Big East though. Some of that is due to the size of that conference, but they have basketball powers up and down the conference. We have KU. They have Syracuse, Georgetown, UCONN, Louisville, Nova. Sure, they have some crap teams too, but their best is better than our best.

Not one of those schools is as big a basketball power as KU. The great and all powerfull Uconn was 1-3 against OU and they played at a time when Uconn (and OU) were both strong. I personally think OU matches up well against every school you named except Uconn (and OU dominated them head to head). OSU also matches up well historically with those other programs. Texas is another school that matches up well with those programs.

I would rank the conferences (all time not this year) ACC, Big Ten, Big XII, Big East, SEC, Pac Ten but there is not much difference from one to the next.

 

[suncoastsooner]

Who deserved to get in and over which team?

Colorado deserved to be in the tournament. They were 5-5 against top 25 teams and 6-6 against tournament teams.

Marquette and Villanova did not deserve to be in the tournament (and I don't care that Marquette is in the sweet 16 and having beat another Big EastPN team to get there, it doesn't justify it).

Marquette finished tied for ninth in the Big EastPN (seeded 11th in the conference tournament). They went 3-9 against top 25 teams, and 5-11 against other tournament teams; they played four out of conference games against opponents in the top 150 of the rpi and lost all four match ups (two at home, one on a neutral court). They won one meaningful road game the entire season which was against UConn who was missing two starters in the match up.

Villanova finished tied for ninth (seeded tenth in the Big EastPN tournament). They went 3-8 against top 25 opponents and 7-11 against other tournament teams; Villanova won one meaningful road game the entire season against Syracuse. They closed out their season with five staright losses and seven of their last nine (including losses to 10-23 South Florida and 15-17 Rutgers).

If Marquette was in any other conference in the country with that resume they wouldn't have even sniffed being a bubble team and likely would have had a road game in the first round of the NIT. If Villanova wasn't in the Big EastPN (and simply have the name Villanova) the best case scenario would have been being a bubble team who likely would have hosted a first round NIT match up against a Horizon league opponent.

 

[suncoastsooner]

Nobody said the Big 12 isn't a good basketball conference.

It's not as good as the Big East though. Some of that is due to the size of that conference, but they have basketball powers up and down the conference. We have KU. They have Syracuse, Georgetown, UCONN, Louisville, Nova. Sure, they have some crap teams too, but their best is better than our best.

You should go back and read my posts again... The Big 12 does more with far fewer teams in the tournament than the Big EastPN does. And it isn't just Kansas driving the ship; Oklahoma, Oklahoma State, and Texas have all been to the final four this century as well; you can add Kansas State, Missouri, Baylor, and Texas A&M as programs who have represented our conference in regional finals. Nebraska and Colorado are the only programs in the conference to have not made it to at least the Sweet 16 at least once since the turn of the century. The Big 12 has the best winning percentage in the NCAA tournament of the six "major" conferences since 2000.

 

[campbest]

Colorado deserved to be in the tournament. They were 5-5 against top 25 teams and 6-6 against tournament teams.

Marquette and Villanova did not deserve to be in the tournament (and I don't care that Marquette is in the sweet 16 and having beat another Big EastPN team to get there, it doesn't justify it).

Marquette finished tied for ninth in the Big EastPN (seeded 11th in the conference tournament). They went 3-9 against top 25 teams, and 5-11 against other tournament teams; they played four out of conference games against opponents in the top 150 of the rpi and lost all four match ups (two at home, one on a neutral court). They won one meaningful road game the entire season which was against UConn who was missing two starters in the match up.

Villanova finished tied for ninth (seeded tenth in the Big EastPN tournament). They went 3-8 against top 25 opponents and 7-11 against other tournament teams; Villanova won one meaningful road game the entire season against Syracuse. They closed out their season with five staright losses and seven of their last nine (including losses to 10-23 South Florida and 15-17 Rutgers).

If Marquette was in any other conference in the country with that resume they wouldn't have even sniffed being a bubble team and likely would have had a road game in the first round of the NIT. If Villanova wasn't in the Big EastPN (and simply have the name Villanova) the best case scenario would have been being a bubble team who likely would have hosted a first round NIT match up against a Horizon league opponent.

Don't necessarily disagree with you, I think the Big East is overrated. However, if you put that Marquette team in this year's Big XII they still get a bid because they would have been ahead of CU. I think VT is better than CU. Comparing resume's is great, but there is a true gray area of which team is better. Personally I think Marquette is better than Colorado based on the product on the floor (and I have seen CU play at least six times this year, once in person).

Also, Marquette handily beat Xavier, they were the better team from the tip. Not sure how you can't give them credit after sneaking in a bid and then turning around to beat a #6 and #3. That's impressive.

 

[suncoastsooner]

Don't necessarily disagree with you, I think the Big East is overrated. However, if you put that Marquette team in this year's Big XII they still get a bid because they would have been ahead of CU. I think VT is better than CU. Comparing resume's is great, but there is a true gray area of which team is better. Personally I think Marquette is better than Colorado based on the product on the floor (and I have seen CU play at least six times this year, once in person).

Also, Marquette handily beat Xavier, they were the better team from the tip. Not sure how you can't give them credit after sneaking in a bid and then turning around to beat a #6 and #3. That's impressive.

Stating that Marquette would have finished higher than CU if they were in the Big 12 is far more subjective and opinion oriented than comparing resumes which is actual hard and fast fact on how the teams did perform during the season and not how they might have. I don't see any indication on how Marquette would have finished higher in the Big 12. Colorado went .500 against top 25 opponents, Marquette went .250 against the top 25. Colorado went .500 against tournament teams, Marquette went .313 against tournament teams.

 

[MichSooner]

FSU is winning over Notre Dame.

Ricky P guaranteed Barkely that FSU would not beat Notre Dame. I guess that he does not predict the future very well. The looks he gave Sir Charles were priceless. Not many guys have the nerve to question the sanctity of the Big East conference in basketball.

he did give the big East credit though for having great coaches.

 

[campbest]

Stating that Marquette would have finished higher than CU if they were in the Big 12 is far more subjective and opinion oriented than comparing resumes which is actual hard and fast fact on how the teams did perform during the season and not how they might have. I don't see any indication on how Marquette would have finished higher in the Big 12. Colorado went .500 against top 25 opponents, Marquette went .250 against the top 25. Colorado went .500 against tournament teams, Marquette went .313 against tournament teams.

Top 25 is decided by voters, who as we all are, vote on bias and are imperfect. I think the real teams that should not have been in were USC and UAB, that was a complete joke.

Does ESPN hype up the Big East? Sure, but when the ACC was cruising a while back all you heard about was that conference. It goes in cycles sometimes, and the Big XII probably doesn't get the credit it deserves. Just doesn't help when the middle of your conference has such a mediocre year.

 

[stoops4pres]

Nobody said the Big 12 isn't a good basketball conference.

It's not as good as the Big East though. Some of that is due to the size of that conference, but they have basketball powers up and down the conference. We have KU. They have Syracuse, Georgetown, UCONN, Louisville, Nova. Sure, they have some crap teams too, but their best is better than our best.

Agreed, the Big East has better depth. But again, with 4-6 more teams than other BCS leagues like the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Pac 10, etc., that should be expected.

Based on NCAA Tournament performance, the Big 12 is very underrated IMO. I believe it was suncoastsooner that pulled up the research last year, but according to NCAA Tournament results, the Big 12 has arguably been the best conference in the tournament for nearly 10 years (since 2002). The only other conference that can even debate their performance being as good as the Big 12's is the Big East.

 

[5hrenergy]

Yeah, he tried to recover by saying the coaches were excellent but the players not great.

I didn't take this as Barkley tring to recover but as what he thought. I agree with him in that the Big East lacks great players. Outside of Kemba Walker, who Barkley referenced, who is great in that league? It does have great coaches and it is a good league, but it is so overblown how great it is and how they beat up on each other.

 

[SilliSooner]

The city of Richmond, VA has as many teams in the Sweet 16 as the Big East.

 

[Dem Coltz]

Barkley saying the Big East is overrated has been the only thing he's said in 4 days that was right. He doesn't offer any meaningful analysis, doesn't study teams or players, and repeats the same talking points about everybody. I love the guy when he tries but he doesn't work hard enough to deserve this position. It makes me appreciate the guys like Seth Davis who watch tons of bball and research and knows his stuff.

 

[SoonerinNC]

One of the problems is the scheduling. The Big East schools played about 2 games per team against quality competition in the pre-conference schedule. That is probably true of most BCS schools. They don't schedule the VCU's, the George Masons, and other top mid-majors. The schedules are loaded with the Stony Brook and Arkansas-Pine Bluff types.

The Big East was something like 16-11 against solid major conference teams. Texas lost to both UConn and Pitt. They were probably the best team any Big East beat.

So the media determines which conferences get the ratings and they get credit for knocking off teams in their own conference and if the conference is highly rated they don't get much of a penalty for losing to someone from inside the conference.

In 2010-2011 Connecticut knocked off Michigan State, a young Kentucky team early and Texas.

Pitt also beat Texas but lost to Tennessee.

Notre Dame beat Georgia, Wisconsin and Gonzaga but lost to Kentucky.

Marquette lost to Duke, Gonzaga, Wisconsin and Vandy.

It would be a lot clearer if the pre-conference schedules matched up more teams of equal strength. But part of the strategy of getting in the dance is to rack up the wins against the cupcakes. The big conference teams today only have to finish around the middle of the pack.

 

[suncoastsooner]

Agreed, the Big East has better depth. But again, with 4-6 more teams than other BCS leagues like the Big 12, Big 10, ACC, Pac 10, etc., that should be expected.

Based on NCAA Tournament performance, the Big 12 is very underrated IMO. I believe it was suncoastsooner that pulled up the research last year, but according to NCAA Tournament results, the Big 12 has arguably been the best conference in the tournament for nearly 10 years (since 2002). The only other conference that can even debate their performance being as good as the Big 12's is the Big East.

Yeah, It was me. It was the night we were getting our brains bashed in by the Aggies from Stoolwater if I recall correctly. A couple of the posters got into all the ESPN speak about the mighty Big EastPN so I went back and checked up dating back to 2000. I've used those numbers combined with last year's and this year's results so far to compare just the Big 12 and Big EastPN. The Big EastPN and Big 12 were #1, tied for #1, or #2 in every category (total wins, winning percentage, sweet 16 appearances, Regional finals appearances, and Final Fours) except total bids where the Big 12 is third behind the ACC as well as the Big EastPN. The most telling two statistics that in my humble opinion show how under valued our conference is are that we are easily on the top of winning percentage and the only conference who has a heads up winning record against all the other "major" basketball conferences in the tournament.

 

[DenverSooner]

When our own fans don't know these stats and won't champion our own conference we should expect to be second or third tier to the Big East and the ACC.

 

[suncoastsooner]

When our own fans don't know these stats and won't champion our own conference we should expect to be second or third tier to the Big East and the ACC.

This is so very true and been my point on at least three different threads in the last week here. After this tournament I think I might just go back and update all the major conferences as I did originally and show how the Big 12 statistically has been the Big EastPN's rival, and in a lot of ways their superior when it comes to the games that decide the entire ball of wax. Of all six major conferences the Big 12 is probably the most undervalued by far and away.