Baylor next year

[SoonerNorm]

These are the players Baylor will have next year:

Agbuke
Cave
Davis
Fuqua
Higgins
Johnson
Prince
Small
Wright
Cohen- http://espn.go.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/141744
Buckner- http://espn.go.com/high-school/girls-basketball/recruiting/player/_/id/189907

Since they lose Sims and Robertson, I do think they will certainly be beatable next year. But, Prince (who was injured this year) is a nice player and Davis is a star in the making. It will be interesting to see how Wright and Small improve by this fall. They will be good but not as good as this year.

 

[badger]

Since they lose Sims and Robertson

I wonder if Skeletor hisses every time she has to utter "Robertson"

Glad to make her angry last night. We at least fought till the end, even though we probably all know in our heart of hearts that we were not winning at Baylor no matter how close the score got

 

[rocjunkie]

It will be interesting to see just how good they will be with Sims gone. Davis will be really good, I hope our youngsters buckle up and will learn to play forty minutes every game and have more successes next season.

 

[sybarite]

We really don't know what they will have next year. This year, they have had Sims and Davis, and they would have been a second division team without either. The others just haven't stepped up. We've heard about their potential, but replacing Sims won't be easy.

 

[soonerstar]

Norm, I thought Baylor would be beatable this year. They lost 4 starters and we have 4 starters back, one junior and 3 seniors and can not beat them. We should not be losing to them this year.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Norm, I thought Baylor would be beatable this year. They lost 4 starters and we have 4 starters back, one junior and 3 seniors and can not beat them. We should not be losing to them this year.

I could not agree more.

 

[caesarscott]

weren't y'all supposed to win the league this year? Have y'all become the Chicago Cubs? "wait til next year"?

 

[badger]

Have y'all become the Chicago Cubs?

No, unlike the Chicago Cubs, we make the postseason every year.

 

[SoonerNorm]

No, unlike the Chicago Cubs, we make the postseason every year.

:woot

 

[AdaSooner]

I watched most of the Baylor game and came away proud as well as impressed that OU was able to cut into a huge deficit and make a game out of it at the end.

But one thing I noticed that should give everyone a reason for concern next season. Keep in mind that I don't follow OU women's recruiting close enough to know what kind of players Sherri signed in the 2014 class. So, it's certainly possible that she has remedied what I see as a problem.

Here's my takeaway from Saturday's game. Baylor may not have Brittney Griner anymore, but their body-size and bulk was noticeably different than most of the players on OU's roster. Being tall is important in rebounding and scoring inside. But if you don't have a big butt and the size and strength to clear space, you're not going to be nearly as effective against players who possess all of those characteristics.

Baylor has them. Sims' departure will definitely help. But she's not the only Bear player who can be effective inside. I even remarked to my wife, "Baylor has much bigger players body wise than most of the players on our roster."

It all goes back to recruiting. It should be obvious to everyone that other Big 12 teams, particularly Baylor, have left us standing in the wake of their recruiting success the past few years. That's especially true of our post players. If Sherri and her staff have not made a move to correct that problem, you can expect more of the same next year, even with Odyssey Sims gone. Sorry, but that's the way I see it.

 

[sybarite]

Two teams stand alone at the top of women's basketball, and neither is built on bulk. I think there is room for that, and we had it with the Paris twins and Abi. Texas now has freshman with bulk, but she also happens to be an outstanding shooter from anywhere on the court.

It is still about execution. The Big Twelve officials have permitted a style that is beneficial to physical dominance, a style that was to have been curtailed a bit this year. It really hasn't been, especially inside. But, the teams that rely on physical dominance don't necessarily do well when the NCAA tournament rolls around.

I suspect that if Baylor meets UConn again, Jefferson, who may be 130, may give Sims all she wants. I suspect that Azibuke will be dominated inside by a smoother Dolson, and Baylor simply has no answer for Stewart, inside or outside. Kansas, who did beat Baylor, is hardly a bulky team, but they are very agile around the basket, and they have been known to hit some shots.

A&M had some bulky guards that were a problem for OU, but none of them were much of a threat in the pros. The slender DRob is a star because of quickness.

The primary thing Baylor has going for them is that they do have a commitment to a style, and you have to step up to deliver your own style. Until the past four years, Baylor had more than they could handle with OU, and I suspect that it will happen again.

 

[AdaSooner]

Syb, I said "a big butt and the size and strength" to clear space are necessary to be an effective rebounder and scorer down low. I'll add another very important ingredient: physical toughness.

Baylor has all of those things, so does WVU. That's why OU has lost to both of those teams twice this season. If I were you, I wouldn't expect that to change until our coaches catch up with the type of players they're recruiting.

As I stated earlier, maybe they have already fixed that problem. If so, please enlighten me on the players OU has coming in next year to compete with the likes of Baylor and WVU. I truly don't have a clue, I'm just going by what I see now.

 

[soonerstar]

Mulkey recruits players that are much more athletic than the ones Coale gets. I am not saying she is a better coach than Coale, but she is head and shoulders above her in recruiting athletic players..

 

[sybarite]

Syb, I said "a big butt and the size and strength" to clear space are necessary to be an effective rebounder and scorer down low. I'll add another very important ingredient: physical toughness.

Baylor has all of those things, so does WVU. That's why OU has lost to both of those teams twice this season. If I were you, I wouldn't expect that to change until our coaches catch up with the type of players they're recruiting.

As I stated earlier, maybe they have already fixed that problem. If so, please enlighten me on the players OU has coming in next year to compete with the likes of Baylor and WVU. I truly don't have a clue, I'm just going by what I see now.

Ada, as I said, UConn and Notre Dame are way ahead of Baylor, and they do not possess the traits that you state. They are solid, but not primarily physical. Until Baylor can beat UConn and ND regularly, their system isn't really all that effective. Curiously, the two Baylor championships did not feature that type of player.

Baylor did not beat OU and has not beaten OU due to the big girls phenomenon. If anything, OU might have beaten Baylor with it. They beat OU with a lot of want to and discipline, a lot of fight. Sims would rather pick a fight than play basketball. But, Griner was never a tough, rather gangly and soft for someone of that size.

OU plays soft right now---right now. That isn't particularly historical. Amanda, Courtney, Ashley, Abi---these were physical dominance. In fact, that's all we had was physical dominance inside. We were beaten by teams that had more fluidity.

This team would be an entirely different team if we had Vegas, Sharane, and Morgan all hitting over forty percent from the three, which they did once upon a time. We have no outside game, and it all falls on some rather thin inside players to try to make up for what is missing outside: movement and shooting.

 

[AdaSooner]

Ada, as I said, UConn and Notre Dame are way ahead of Baylor, and they do not possess the traits that you state. They are solid, but not primarily physical. Until Baylor can beat UConn and ND regularly, their system isn't really all that effective. Curiously, the two Baylor championships did not feature that type of player.

Baylor did not beat OU and has not beaten OU due to the big girls phenomenon. If anything, OU might have beaten Baylor with it. They beat OU with a lot of want to and discipline, a lot of fight. Sims would rather pick a fight than play basketball. But, Griner was never a tough, rather gangly and soft for someone of that size.

OU plays soft right now---right now. That isn't particularly historical. Amanda, Courtney, Ashley, Abi---these were physical dominance. In fact, that's all we had was physical dominance inside. We were beaten by teams that had more fluidity.

This team would be an entirely different team if we had Vegas, Sharane, and Morgan all hitting over forty percent from the three, which they did once upon a time. We have no outside game, and it all falls on some rather thin inside players to try to make up for what is missing outside: movement and shooting.

OU may never beat teams like UCONN, ND, Stanford and Duke on a consistent basis. Those schools simply recruit better players year in and year out. Superior talent usually trumps the things we have been talking about.

Baylor, though, is a team OU has to play at least twice every season. While I'm willing to concede that size and bulk may not be as much of a factor in their success, it's clear that Mulkey is doing a better job of recruiting players and coaching them up to fit her system. I won't go so far as to say that she's a better coach than Sherri Coale, because I don't believe that. But, something is wrong somewhere, and it's not just being lucky enough to bring in a dominant players like Griner. Griner is gone and we still can't beat Baylor.

I'm bothered more by your statement that "they beat OU with a lot of want to and discipline, a lot of fight." I said in my follow up post that a lack of toughness is a factor, and you obviously agree with me.

I'm also troubled that you said this team plays soft. I already knew that, of course. I'm just surprised that a diehard women's fan like you would openly admit it. You're an honest man!

If the problem is a lack of toughness and desire, as well as discipline and a willingness to fight [interpreted, compete at a high level], coaching and/or recruiting may be playing a bigger role in our lack of success this season than I first thought.

I agree that Amanda, Courtney, Ashley, Abi were tough, physical players. But none of those four has worn the C&C in the last three years or more. Sherri and her staff need to deal with the present. They can't continue to lean on what they have accomplished in the past. Sooner fans had high expectations for this year's team before the season got underway. This has been a disappointing season by OU's standards. I don't even remember the last time we were at risk of not getting a bid to the NCAA tourney.

 

[SoonerNorm]

OU may never beat teams like UCONN, ND, Stanford and Duke on a consistent basis. Those schools simply recruit better players year in and year out. Superior talent usually trumps the things we have been talking about.

Baylor, though, is a team OU has to play at least twice every season. While I'm willing to concede that size and bulk may not be as much of a factor in their success, it's clear that Mulkey is doing a better job of recruiting players and coaching them up to fit her system. I won't go so far as to say that she's a better coach than Sherri Coale, because I don't believe that. But, something is wrong somewhere, and it's not just being lucky enough to bring in a dominant players like Griner. Griner is gone and we still can't beat Baylor.

I'm bothered more by your statement that "they beat OU with a lot of want to and discipline, a lot of fight." I said in my follow up post that a lack of toughness is a factor, and you obviously agree with me.

I'm also troubled that you said this team plays soft. I already knew that, of course. I'm just surprised that a diehard women's fan like you would openly admit it. You're an honest man!

If the problem is a lack of toughness and desire, as well as discipline and a willingness to fight [interpreted, compete at a high level], coaching and/or recruiting may be playing a bigger role in our lack of success this season than I first thought.

I agree that Amanda, Courtney, Ashley, Abi were tough, physical players. But none of those four has worn the C&C in the last three years or more. Sherri and her staff need to deal with the present. They can't continue to lean on what they have accomplished in the past. Sooner fans had high expectations for this year's team before the season got underway. This has been a disappointing season by OU's standards. I don't even remember the last time we were at risk of not getting a bid to the NCAA tourney.

:woot You hit just about every point some of us have been saying for months.

 

[sybarite]

When recruited, I think these were players that gave the impression that they could get the job done. Griffin was a Parade All-American and Wisconsin POY (twice?). She had the dexterity that we had really needed and lacked with the Paris twins. We were beaten by a center a lot like Griffin one year, but she had help from mid-range and outside.

Ellenberg was a McDonald's All-American who gave every impression, even as a freshman here, that she would become a superstar. For some reason, she just never continued to develop, and may have actually regressed.

Hook was so good that she was recruited as a freshman out of HS. She was the all-around that you want.

Kornet was a WBCA All-American and the MVP of their game. She was also recruited by the schools that you want to be against.

Right now, none of these four are doing quite what was expected. How would you account for that? I think every coach in the country would have wanted these four, and I'm not so sure that they wouldn't like to have them now. But, there has been something missing.

Who knows how good OU might have been had OU had Whitney Hand---before her ACL? She was a superstar as a freshman just waiting to happen. She started as a freshman on a Final Four team and was a key player. She never was the same after that. She came back slower, a bit more uncertain on her shot, and not quite able to move as well.

Then, there is Maddie. I think that Maddie is the superstar (or was about to be) that we have been waiting for. We would have had Maddie, Whitney, Jo, Griffin, Vegas, and Morgan last year with Sharane off the bench. Wow! It just didn't happen. We lost probably our two best players, and we couldn't even get Maddie back this year. If we had had Maddie and Whitney last year, I don't think anyone would be complaining, except that it was difficult to beat UConn in the Finals.

We haven't had the best of luck. We have a center coming in that may be the center that we need. But, we may have just lost her for a year. We don't know yet. But, this is curious. We lose four players, three of whom are starters, and we may actually have reason to be pleased that we will be better.

Grit has been a problem. But, I'm not sure that you can always instill that. I think Sherri thought she had enough. We're not in the position that we have the luxury of injuries or of mistakes. We are not Duke or Stanford or Notre Dame. We are not in a highly-advanced state that draws people to love us. We need to have a break instead of a torn ACL. Even when we had Courtney, we had an entire set of guards who had been pretty good---all of whom came down with ACLs. This doesn't happen much in men's basketball, but it can be a destroyer to women's basketball. An ACL injury has taken more than one team down.

 

[AdaSooner]

No doubt about it, Syb. OU has been plagued with injuries, many of them season-ending that have dealt the team a severe blow in meeting our expectations. I understand that perfectly and agree that things could have been better if everyone had stayed healthy.

That still doesn't explain the absence of heart, and the mental and physical toughness we have come to expect from OU women's basketball. If our assistant coaches are responsible for finding and evaluating recruits, is it possible that one or two, or all for that matter, may not be doing a good job in that area?

I followed OU women's basketball as close as anyone when LaNeisha Caufield was on our roster and Bo Overton was an assistant coach. The reason should be obvious, they are both from Ada. My wife and I even had season tickets back then.

Bo was said to be a good recruiter. Has there been anyone on our staff that has matched what he brought to the table? If the assistants aren't good at finding the best player available to fit Sherri's style, or they don't know how to gauge the intangibles like heart, hustle, mental and physical toughness and a half dozen more I could list, maybe it's time to bring in someone who can?

 

[sybarite]

It's funny. A few months ago, we were all cheering last year's team because it had that heart, that toughness. The difference is one player. The consensus was that last year was Sherri's best coaching job because she had lost two key players, the best on her team, and had gone to the Sweet Sixteen.

I spent the entire summer and Fall furious that we didn't have that same type of heart or leadership on the football team. We had had years in which we had three of the top four draft choices from OU, and we hadn't done much with it. We were the perennial 10-2 team that didn't have the guts to win the big one.

Suddenly, we win three football games, after looking horrible earlier in the year, and we have some rather surprising difficulties on the women's team, and we're questioning what has to be one of the top five coaches in the game.

I don't know how you can be certain about the intangibles when you recruit. If I were to look at Morgan as a character study, from what I know, I would think we have that covered. I don't see a problem child on this team, and that is usually what causes the problem. You have someone that causes dissent. I think that is what you tend to screen for. Can you even tell if someone will have that fire?

My favorite basketball player of recent years was Quannas because he was that type. If you have that type of mentality, it can be the Drill Sergeant to your team. Quannas always left me thinking that he could take any player on the court in a street fight, and it really did take an injury to take that team down.

I think DRob had a little of that. Stacey Dales had it. I think that Maria Villeneueva and Dionnah had it. I thought that Morgan had it, but it just wasn't taking. I really think that is Maddie--the type that would love it if Sims took a swing at her.

Yet, this could happen yet. We took out the ACC champions a couple of years ago to get to the Sweet Sixteen because we had one thing develop at the right time--Jo. This season isn't over yet. I have always thought this team could---if they just would---go to at least the Elite Eight. It is there. Vegas was that type of shooter, as was Morgan. Sharane hit over 45% in conference play last year. Kornet is supposedly a shooter. Kay Kay supposedly can rebound. I never would have thought that Maria/Dionnah team could have won the Big Twelve tournament. They did.
Let's let rigor mortis set in before we bury this corpse.

 

[got mulk??]

I'm not a believer in size giving you and edge down low with the exception of BG which that kind of player doesn't come around often. Talent and positioning can make you a force in the paint, just like Nina who is 5'11"!! She has a knack of always knowing where the ball is and gravitating towards it.

Recruiting is key but more important is being able to coach those talents and get them to believing in the greater good of a "team". You have to be able to corral those players and give them a reality check. Kim knows how to get the best out of her players and that's where Sherri falls behind.