Big 12 Preseason Poll

I'd point to OSU as another team that has done nothing to warrant being picked where they are. I know some on here like to act as if Boynton is the second coming and think that they have outperformed us the past two years, but reality says otherwise. I also don't think we have as much turnover as some suggest. We return our three best players, one of whom is one of the best in the league, plus a guy with two years of high level experience who is in all likelihood the best or second best player on the team. We obviously have a lot of new guys, but returning four experienced, known quantities is more than most teams have in college basketball these days. I do agree, though, that our poor conference record the past three seasons probably is a big reason for us being picked this low. Ultimately, the great thing is that none of it matters other than just being a good topic of discussion. The scoreboard will tell us the only thing that matters once the games start.



OSU returns all 5 starters. Not nessacarily good. However they only played with 7 players last year. The only hope is that the increased depth improved the team and maybe they have recruited over Waters and Diazagwa. 6 to 8 seems about right


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OSU returns all 5 starters. Not nessacarily good. However they only played with 7 players last year. The only hope is that the increased depth improved the team and maybe they have recruited over Waters and Diazagwa. 6 to 8 seems about right


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I think OSU has more "4 star" recruits than anyone other than Texas or Kansas in the league now as well.
 
To me, it is easy to see that OSU has a better constructed team than OU does... OU has had nice players but has weird roster setups.... Limited shooters, 7 guys who play the same position, too many people who can't contribute, etc.

OSU has a very well assembled team... Point guards, shooters, rebounders, shot blockers, etc. I think that is why people are high on them.

Honest question: if we had the exact same roster makeup as OSU but had missed the tourney two straight years and had multiple players dismissed from the program, would you be high on our team and praising how we were constructed and how many four-stars we had, or would you be focused on the bottom line, i.e., two straight years missing the dance? It just seems like so many people look for reasons to be bullish on other teams while focusing only on the negatives when it comes to OU.

Back to the main topic of the thread, I just heard a KU beat writer on the radio and his thoughts are consistent with what many of us have said. He thinks the top 3 are fairly clear, views 4 through 9 as a tossup, and sees TCU as the obvious preseason pick to finish in the cellar.
 
I think the key is if OU gets better as the year moves on and not go the other way.
 
To me, it is easy to see that OSU has a better constructed team than OU does...

So a team that made the tourney last season (and won a game), swept oswho last year, has seen the most disappointing players from last year's squad depart (but has retained its three best players) and has a top 20 recruiting class coming in just won't be able to hang with the juggernaut in Stillwater, huh?
 
I think the key is if OU gets better as the year moves on and not go the other way.

I couldn't agree more. We've had three years in a row which November / December was better than January / February...time to put an end to that - and I think we will.
 
I hope we're good enough in November and December that it's hard to improve upon when conference play starts -- but I'm all in on no big drop-off.
 
Everyone keeps saying we return our 3 best players from last year, but Christian James is not coming back
 
Everyone keeps saying we return our 3 best players from last year, but Christian James is not coming back

I was thinking the same thing. The only rationale would be that some project Bieniemy to be a better all-around player in his second year than James would have been if he had another year of eligibility.
 
It would be nice to have James but there are enough guys with the same type skills. Sometimes guys leave a hole that's harder to fill.
 
Everyone keeps saying we return our 3 best players from last year, but Christian James is not coming back

JB was a better player than James from about January 1 on last year. Passing, handles, defense, he was far better than James. Also shot better, albeit he was very selective in the number of attempts. You can probably count on one hand the number of conference games last season in which James really made a significant, positive impact. He had a very good noncon, but faded significantly once league started. Plus, as a fourth year guy, he had reached his ceiling. JB still has tons of time to improve.
 
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JB was a better player than James from about January 1 on last year. Passing, handles, defense, he was far better than James. Also shot better, albeit he was very selective in the number of attempts. You can probably count on one hand the number of conference games last season in which James really made a significant, positive impact. He had a very good noncon, but faded significantly once league started. Plus, as a fourth year guy, he had reached his ceiling. JB still has tons of time to improve.

James ceiling might be lower, but last year James was better than Jamal. James was 1st in ppg, 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in apg.
 
James ceiling might be lower, but last year James was better than Jamal. James was 1st in ppg, 2nd in rpg, and 3rd in apg.

Jamal was first in assists, first in steals, first in three-point shooting percentage. One can find stats to support either player.

I appreciate all Christian did as a Sooner, but personally, if given a choice between having Bieniemy or James on the team this season, I would choose Jamal.
 
Ok lets break it down then

PPG

James 14.6
Bieneiemy 4.9

Blocks per game

James 0.2
Bieniemy 0.2

Steals per Game

James 1.2
Bieniemy 1.4

Assits per game

James 1.9
Bieniemy 3.5

Rebounds per game

James 6.2
Bieniemy 2.4

Free Throws Made/attempt/%per game

James 2.4/3.1/76.6
Bieniemy 0.4/.06/63.6

3 Pointers

James 2.0/5.9/34.7
Bieniemy 0.8/2.0/40.3

Field Goals

James 5.1/12.3/41.1
Bieniemy 1.9/4.7/39.1

MGP
James 33.1
Bieneiemy 25.3

So if Bieniemy was better why was Lon letting James shoot more and play more? Does he not know who's better?
 
Jamal was first in assists, first in steals, first in three-point shooting percentage. One can find stats to support either player.

I appreciate all Christian did as a Sooner, but personally, if given a choice between having Bieniemy or James on the team this season, I would choose Jamal.

This season probably but I think James was OU’s 2nd best player last year.
 
So if Bieniemy was better why was Lon letting James shoot more and play more? Does he not know who's better?

Anyone who knows Lon knows that he doesn't restrict players when it comes to shooting. James shot more not because Lon "let" him shoot more. He shot more because JB focused on running the offense and facilitating for others. Personally, I wish he would have shot more often, but as a freshman, he obviously was more concerned with making good decisions and getting others involved. Plus, James was a shooting guard. I think it is pretty common for a shooting guard to take more shots than a point guard. To suggest that that means the shooting guard is automatically the better player seems overly simplistic. I also think just using stats to evaluate this isn't the best gauge, but if you want to go that route, I would suggest you focus on CJ's numbers from January 1 on, because it is from that date forward that I think JB became the better overall player. James was great in November and most of December, but took a huge step back after that. JB kept getting better, including in ways that don't show up in a box score.

In any event, I certainly never intended this to become a debate about CJ when I posted that we return our three best players. Even if you disagree with that, my overall point is that while we do have tons of new players this season, we will have four very good starters (including Reaves) with a significant amount of experience.
 
I'd be pissed if we didn't finish higher than 8th. Lon would have no excuses.
 
I'd be pissed if we didn't finish higher than 8th. Lon would have no excuses.

I'm right there with you on that first part.

Second part? Don't think Lon is or ever has been an "excuse" guy.
 
So if Bieniemy was better why was Lon letting James shoot more and play more? Does he not know who's better?

That's a little fallacious. Bienemy was a true freshman, James was a senior with a lot of run under his belt. By your rationale, Stephen Pledger was "better" than Buddy Hield because he shot and scored more when he was a senior during the 2012-13 season (Pledger's senior/Buddy's Freshman)

That being said, I generally agree with you that people are tending to undervalue CJ's contribution. You can't easily replace that much experience. And frankly, I think OU's overall lack of experience is a big reason why I don't think the #8 preseason projection is all that unfair.
 
That's a little fallacious. Bienemy was a true freshman, James was a senior with a lot of run under his belt. By your rationale, Stephen Pledger was "better" than Buddy Hield because he shot and scored more when he was a senior during the 2012-13 season (Pledger's senior/Buddy's Freshman)

That being said, I generally agree with you that people are tending to undervalue CJ's contribution. You can't easily replace that much experience. And frankly, I think OU's overall lack of experience is a big reason why I don't think the #8 preseason projection is all that unfair.

In 2012-2013 pledger was better than buddy absolutely. Buddy got better from there. And what happens if Jamal develops like others not named buddy? So yes most are discrediting what Christian James meant to last years team
 
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