Bill Self does not like to follow the rules.

campbest said:
This is a non-issue. Anyone who has experience in recruiting knows this happens all the time.
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May be a non issue but I would be concerned about by the fact ESPN reported it. ESPN didn't report the Kelvingate for a year. It was reported around Okla for a while. When Greg Swaim told Greg Doyel who did a CBSsportsline.com article about it, then ESPN reported and it got legs. I would be concerned about further digging into phone records. Of course if there is no wrong done, then there is nothing to worry about. KU however is one of the last programs that needs to make shortcuts, but the pressure of not getting a top 20 recruit two years straight might cause pressure.
 
I thought making phone calls at the wrong time was going to be a non issue as well. KU BB is on probation and Self made contact in the non-contact period.

Rules are rules, KU would be smart to run from Wall, hell hire his dad that is a legal way to pay the kid.
 
IndySooner said:
Don't take this the wrong way, but how hard is it REALLY to recruit to KU? Great facilities, great support, great tradition, great campus.......

I just think it's tough to call a guy a great recruiter because he gets people to KU.

Now he has a track record, from what he did at Illinois, but the same could be said for Champaign.

Anyway.....
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I don't think it is difficult at all to recruit to Kansas. The program sells itself with history and fan support.
 
BigTime said:
I don't think it is difficult at all to recruit to Kansas. The program sells itself with history and fan support.
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Just because it's not that difficult to recruit at KU doesn't mean that Self isn't a great recruiter. He was a great recruiter at Illinois and Tulsa. You can say that Illinois is easy to recruit to but they struggled to recruit before and after Self.

KU is interesting because it has inherent pluses in terms of history and name recognition but there isn't much talent in the surround areas which means they consistently have to out recruit local teams. They have 2 kids from Kansas on their team and one from Missouri.

I don't think KU recruits itself near as much as UCLA does for Cali kids or UNC/Duke does. However, it is definitely easier to recruit to KU than anywhere in the Big 12 other than maybe UT right now.
 
gracefor24 said:
Just because it's not that difficult to recruit at KU doesn't mean that Self isn't a great recruiter. He was a great recruiter at Illinois and Tulsa. You can say that Illinois is easy to recruit to but they struggled to recruit before and after Self.

KU is interesting because it has inherent pluses in terms of history and name recognition but there isn't much talent in the surround areas which means they consistently have to out recruit local teams. They have 2 kids from Kansas on their team and one from Missouri.

I don't think KU recruits itself near as much as UCLA does for Cali kids or UNC/Duke does. However, it is definitely easier to recruit to KU than anywhere in the Big 12 other than maybe UT right now.
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It will always be easier to recruit to KU over UT. KU is a basketball school. Rick Barnes is just, by far, the best recruiter in the Big 12 right now. Capel has been really showing what he can do as well.

Do you know how many folks UT gets to their midnight madness? How about KU? It is much, much easier to recruit to Kansas.
 
Wayyyyy off topic here.

I keep getting 503 server errors when I click on every thread except this one. Help me. :(
 
BigTime said:
It will always be easier to recruit to KU over UT. KU is a basketball school. Rick Barnes is just, by far, the best recruiter in the Big 12 right now. Capel has been really showing what he can do as well.

Do you know how many folks UT gets to their midnight madness? How about KU? It is much, much easier to recruit to Kansas.
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Actually, BT, it is just as easy to recruit to UT right now. They have the best facilities in the Big 12, have more talent in their state than any other Big 12 school, and just have ridiculous money.

Barnes is a terrific recruiter but UT is an amazing school to recruit for those and many other factors. If you compare what Barnes did at NC State and Self and Illinois they aren't even close in terms of recruiting.
 
Self recruited lot's of really good players that could play with anyone in that country while at Tulsa. That's all I need to know about his ability to recruit.
 
Recruiting wise Self is great, Barnes is great, it appears Capel is on his way to being a great recruiter.
 
buttermaker1 said:
Recruiting wise Self is great, Barnes is great, it appears Capel is on his way to being a great recruiter.
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Barnes in my opinion is a better recruiter than Self and may be one of the top 5 recruiters nationally. Capel does a hell of a job considering.....

In a sidenote, It's was funny here Gottlieb talk about Josh Pastner because they are so similar. Both are son's of AAU/recruiting gurus. Both played PG at Major universities, both have burned bridges at their alma mater, and both can come off as jerks.
 
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DirtyMess said:
Barnes in my opinion is a better recruiter than Self and may be one of the top 5 recruiters nationally. Capel does a hell of a job considering.....
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I would say Barnes and Self are neck and neck in recruiting. Again, Barnes has a huge advantage in resources and in local talent. I will say that I never expected him to recruit as well as he has.

According to Scout, KU has had 3 Top 10 classes since '04 and another that was ranked 12th. KU has signed 8 Five Star, 13 Four Star, and 3 Three Star players since '04.

UT has had 2 Top 10 classes since '04 and will add a 3rd surely with the '10 class. UT has signed 7 Five Star (counted CJ Miles though he never showed up), 11 Four Stars (counted J'Covan Brown though he didn't show up), 6 Three Star, and 1 Two Star.

These include the '09 class in which KU isn't done yet but as you can see they are pretty much equal and if anything a slight edge goes to Self. Again, it is nothing short of amazing what Barnes has built but UT was a sleeping giant and getting into the Big 12 really gave them a chance to step it up in basketball.

OU's '08 class was ranked #20 and '09 class is #7 currently by Scout. So, Capel is definitely making a run.
 
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DirtyMess said:
Barnes in my opinion is a better recruiter than Self and may be one of the top 5 recruiters nationally. Capel does a hell of a job considering.....

In a sidenote, It's was funny here Gottlieb talk about Josh Pastner because they are so similar. Both are son's of AAU/recruiting gurus. Both played PG at Major universities, both have burned bridges at their alma mater, and both can come off as jerks.
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I wouldn't say both played PG at major universities. Pastner was a walk on and Gottlieb was a very good PG. Other than that you are pretty spot on. Though I think Gottlieb is the best CBB analyst out there right now.
 
6th St. > Mass St. > Campus Corner

Easy as 1,2,3.

Gottlieb is the best analyst out there right now.
 
gracefor24 said:
I wouldn't say both played PG at major universities. Pastner was a walk on and Gottlieb was a very good PG. Other than that you are pretty spot on. Though I think Gottlieb is the best CBB analyst out there right now.
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He got in a game or two. Gottlieb knows basketball in a major way. His personality keeps him from being able to relate to any youth. Dude loves to talk though.
 
Dougie has a checkered past he would never get a d-1 job

KU also has a huge recruiting advantage, KU invented the game remember.
 
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DirtyMess said:
He got in a game or two. Gottlieb knows basketball in a major way. His personality keeps him from being able to relate to any youth. Dude loves to talk though.
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I don't get how he can't relate to youth, I would disagree with that completely. I think if you let Gottlieb talk to a group of HS kids they would love him. I think he has no interest in coaching and like you said he loves to talk. He has been raised around the game and you can tell as a PG he really was like a QB in that he knows every position and what they should be doing. The other thing I like is that he is completely honest even if it means ticking someone off. The rest of the analysts outside of Bilas pretty much suck up to every program they cover.
 
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