Clock Management Was Poor At KSU

[cowboysooner]

KSU has the ball with about 50 seconds left and only up 2 points. Proper strategy would be to defend and stop them and try to then win or tie the game. It is just a one possession game. The only thing you can't do, under any circumstance, is foul. However, we intentionally fouled on the in bounds, as if we were down by multiple possessions. Ludicrous. I don't know if Lon called for this strategy or it was just a stupid play by a kid.

Otherwise, I just thought we didn't play very good defense. The kids just refuse under any circumstance to identify shooters and get out on them. Running at them is entirely useless. You have to be out under them and force them to dribble or pass. Once they are in their shooting motion, they are looking at the back rim and your running at them is a non issue. Plus, once in their motion, you have to stay back to avoid fouling them.

The kids or lon, I don't know which, don't seem to understand that when you are up 7-8 points with less than 5-6 minutes, a team almost can't come back if you limit them to 2 points per possession. the team behind just has to win too many possessions.

I didn't understand why Woodard wasn't in the game very much in the 2d half, but Lon probably had his reasons. He certainly hadn't played with much focus for much of the game.

We could and should have won this one, so, lost opportunity for sure.

 

[oukyle]

We fouled a 65% FT shooter who, in turn, missed the front end of the 1 and 1. We didn't rebound the miss, so that is where the mistake was made. We could have had the ball, down 2, with the ball and 50 seconds to go.

If we get that rebound, we have a chance to go for a quick score, getting a 2 for 1, with a chance to win the game at the end if our defense holds K State.

 

[CoachTalk]

Im with Kyle. 50 secs. they take it down to 17-13 range by the time we rebound or inbound. If you get a stop then yeah it works out great... if not your down 4 with 17-13 secs which usually doesn't work out in your favor.

Must rebound the ball... End of story!

 

[BoulderSooner]

We fouled a 65% FT shooter who, in turn, missed the front end of the 1 and 1. We didn't rebound the miss, so that is where the mistake was made. We could have had the ball, down 2, with the ball and 50 seconds to go.

If we get that rebound, we have a chance to go for a quick score, getting a 2 for 1, with a chance to win the game at the end if our defense holds K State.

this

 

[DenverSooner]

Otherwise, I just thought we didn't play very good defense. The kids just refuse under any circumstance to identify shooters and get out on them. Running at them is entirely useless. You have to be out under them and force them to dribble or pass. Once they are in their shooting motion, they are looking at the back rim and your running at them is a non issue. Plus, once in their motion, you have to stay back to avoid fouling them.

One of the KSU players that hurt OU was a guy that hadn't been a good three point shooter. OU may have actually done what they wanted to do and simply had bad luck due to the player shooting well above his normal percentage.

I don't know that this was the case but I think you have to consider this possibility.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

I agree that fouling when down two with 50 seconds left is pretty damn idiotic. I didn't get to watch the game so I don't know if it was intentional but that isn't smart even if you fould a bad FT shooter. You don't give the opponent a chance to make it a two possession game.

The kids or lon, I don't know which, don't seem to understand that when you are up 7-8 points with less than 5-6 minutes, a team almost can't come back if you limit them to 2 points per possession.

this statement is equally idiotic though

 

[SoonerWarVet]

We fouled a 65% FT shooter who, in turn, missed the front end of the 1 and 1. We didn't rebound the miss, so that is where the mistake was made. We could have had the ball, down 2, with the ball and 50 seconds to go.

If we get that rebound, we have a chance to go for a quick score, getting a 2 for 1, with a chance to win the game at the end if our defense holds K State.

Not that I disagree with fouling, but weren't both teams already in the double bonus by that point in the second half? I seem to remember that he made the first, missed the second.

 

[Kewllane]

Not that I disagree with fouling, but weren't both teams already in the double bonus by that point in the second half? I seem to remember that he made the first, missed the second.

It was a one and one. We didn't get the rebound and had to foul again and that's when they went one for two from the line I believe.

 

[garyeb2]

The TV announcers explained it pretty well. The play happened right in front of Kruger. When the refs went to the replay to see who last touched the ball, (Cousins or the K St. player) Kruger was sure that the call was going to be reversed and go our way. They said he spent the time he had drawing up an offensive play.

When the call didn't go our way, we went out to defend the inbounds play without current instructions from Kruger. Hornbeak probably made a mistake by fouling. He wasn't told to foul.

 

[AdaSooner]

The TV announcers explained it pretty well. The play happened right in front of Kruger. When the refs went to the replay to see who last touched the ball, (Cousins or the K St. player) Kruger was sure that the call was going to be reversed and go our way. They said he spent the time he had drawing up an offensive play.

When the call didn't go our way, we went out to defend the inbounds play without current instructions from Kruger. Hornbeak probably made a mistake by fouling. He wasn't told to foul.

Exactly! The announcers also said that Kruger wasn't happy when Je'lon committed that foul.

I'm sure everyone knows that we could hash and rehash the last minute or two of that game until the cows come home and not change a thing. Bottom line: OU failed to make the plays to come away with a win and K-State capitalized on our mistakes and missed shots. Our failure to rebound the missed free throw couldn't have come at a worse time. Three point shooting was also a key to our loss; namely, the nine we missed in the second half and the shots KSU knocked down when it counted the most.

 

[StatGeek]

The end of the game was obviously crucial but I thought our failure to get some breathing room when Spradling, Foster & Gibson went to the bench for a prolonged period really hurt us.

 

[snydrosooner]

I have never been one for slowing the game down, but after the last game a thaught came to mind.

OK If I remember correctly OU had the ball with a 6 point lead with just over 3 minutes remaining. Why would OU not take the air out of the ball for every time they had it and throw up a long shot at the end of the shot clock. ( We did take some time off but just not enough) Basically Kansas State had to score not OU. If ou did this for 3 times, that would halfed the time without counting time for KState to have the ball. This would put all the pressure on KState to score.

I remember Tramel, I think, talking when OU lost to Texas last year that if OU would have left the shot clock run down and taken the shot clock penalty every time, then Texas would not have had enough time to catch up. Made me think of this at KState.

 

[campbest]

Down 2 with 50 seconds is really a toss-up on what to do, if you can get a guy who isn't a great FT shooter to the line, you do it. Otherwise play defense and let it roll.

As previously mentioned, OU got KSU to miss the front-end, have to grab that board.

 

[WTSooner]

Down 2 with 50 seconds is really a toss-up on what to do, if you can get a guy who isn't a great FT shooter to the line, you do it. Otherwise play defense and let it roll.

As previously mentioned, OU got KSU to miss the front-end, have to grab that board.

That was my line of thinking too.

Don't foul a good FT shooter but if somebody in the 50-60% range gets the ball, I think fouling is probably the best option. It worked out, we just didn't get the board.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Down 2 with 50 seconds is really a toss-up on what to do, if you can get a guy who isn't a great FT shooter to the line, you do it. Otherwise play defense and let it roll.

As previously mentioned, OU got KSU to miss the front-end, have to grab that board.

i completely disagree but oh well.
I just feel it is really not smart to allow the other team a chance to make it a two possession game. If you play good defense you will get the ball back with 20+ seconds left to set up a game tying two or game winning shot

 

[SoonerBounce13]

It worked out,

obviously not

 

[Kewllane]

I have never been one for slowing the game down, but after the last game a thaught came to mind.

OK If I remember correctly OU had the ball with a 6 point lead with just over 3 minutes remaining. Why would OU not take the air out of the ball for every time they had it and throw up a long shot at the end of the shot clock. ( We did take some time off but just not enough) Basically Kansas State had to score not OU. If ou did this for 3 times, that would halfed the time without counting time for KState to have the ball. This would put all the pressure on KState to score.

I remember Tramel, I think, talking when OU lost to Texas last year that if OU would have left the shot clock run down and taken the shot clock penalty every time, then Texas would not have had enough time to catch up. Made me think of this at KState.

That's one thing that I feel happens to OU more than any team I've ever watched. Any time they have a lead at a crucial point, the opposing team almost always hits a 3. ALWAYS. I mean right before the half, we're up 4 with under a minute to go, and K-State does what? Hits a 3. I mean the minute he shot it, I knew it was going in. No one EVER misses those shots against OU for some reason. Same at the end of the game. Up 5 or 6 with 3 minutes to go, and sure enough, they hit another 3. And this isn't the only game this happens. It happens almost every game for OU. I know it probably happens to most teams and I'm just being sensitive as an OU fan, but it really is incredible. Either one of those misses and OU has a chance to extend the lead or waste clock and not let them get any closer. It really is unbelievable to me. And I know people will say it's on the defense, but college kids miss wide open 3's all the time, except when it is almost literally the only thing that can keep them in the game late against OU. Even happened against ISU this passed weekend. They were done and down like 10 with a minute and a half to go or something. Maybe even less time. So if they miss a 3 we have an easy win. But what happens? They make it and it gets a little interesting. I just want a win that I don't have to be worried about until the final buzzer! Is that too much to ask for?!? LOL But in all seriousness I know that's just how this team is going to be the rest of the year. No easy wins. And that's fine. Just want the W. That's all that really matters in the end. Just needed to vent about this because it's so annoying.

 

[cowboysooner]

Well we all have a right to an opinion and a right to express it on a message board. But, I for one am happy Lon didn't call for the foul to be taken. I would have questioned his ability to coach.

Anything can work out. But, fouling in that situation would be like have a 3d down situation in football where a team is ahead and has 20 yards for a first down, and you intentionally jump off sides because you have been playing better defense on 3d down when they have a shorter distance to go. It makes sense only to the disoriented or confused.

Your behind, it is a one possession game and they have the ball and there is 50 seconds left and a 35 second shot clock. Very simply, you defend your rear off and do everything in your power to keep it a one possession game and get the ball back. You only start fouling when the game time is inadequate relative to the deficit to catch up figuring normal possessions.

Coaches and kids can follow any strategy they want, and it might on occasion work. But, if you foul in that situation by design, I won't and don't think you know what you are doing. JMO

 

[WTSooner]

Well we all have a right to an opinion and a right to express it on a message board. But, I for one am happy Lon didn't call for the foul to be taken. I would have questioned his ability to coach.

Anything can work out. But, fouling in that situation would be like have a 3d down situation in football where a team is ahead and has 20 yards for a first down, and you intentionally jump off sides because you have been playing better defense on 3d down when they have a shorter distance to go. It makes sense only to the disoriented or confused.

Your behind, it is a one possession game and they have the ball and there is 50 seconds left and a 35 second shot clock. Very simply, you defend your rear off and do everything in your power to keep it a one possession game and get the ball back. You only start fouling when the game time is inadequate relative to the deficit to catch up figuring normal possessions.

Coaches and kids can follow any strategy they want, and it might on occasion work. But, if you foul in that situation by design, I won't and don't think you know what you are doing. JMO

Yet it happens ALL the time in college ball. It's about playing the percentages. And putting a 50% FT shooter at the line, in some cases, is a more efficient option then letting a team run their offense, when they've scored it pretty efficiently on you all night.

If OU was a good defensive team, that would change things. But we are not.

 

[campbest]

Not saying it's a cut and dry foul or no foul. If a 45% shooter catches the ball with 50 seconds left and would have to shoot the front end, you absolutely foul him. Now, I doubt many opposing coaches are going to put their own shooter in a position to go to the line if he is terrible.

I would rather have confidence in my defense to get one stop, but sometimes as a coach you aren't afforded that luxury if you can't guard (which we have shown a tendency to do).