After having lived in NC for 12 years and being exposed to folks from Duke, this is IMO Capel's problem which I am not sure he can change. Duke folks (for the most part) believe that they can do or fix anything, which is OK but, they also believe if they can't it is not their fault it is someone else who is to blame so why should they change. They seem to have an entitlement feeling from having gone there. I get a lot of this from Capel. I hope he can change things but do not think he will.
Coach Capel
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OU could be top 5 next season. Player development is Capel's bread and butter. Only losing 1 player and having a few others join the team will make for a much better season.
I didn't like Sampson b/c during his tenure, most of his wins were a MIRAGE. The big 8 and big 12 was considered one of the worst leagues...which was true. His wins came from weaker competition. He would then make it to the ncaa tourney to lose in the 1st round year after year...minus a couple.
I also hated the way his game was guard oriented. He would get solid post players and not let his offense run thru them. Thats why Ryan Humpfrey transfered. He has Taj Grey and Bookout and his offense runs thru Everett. I bet if Capel was coaching that team, he wouldn't have lost to Wis-Mil in the 1st round. Capel has proven that when he loses in the tourney...he loses to better teams than us not 11, 12, 13 seeds.
Capel is having to rebuild while K-st, Mizzou, KU, Tex, Baylor and aTm are all in the top 25...and OSU knocking at the door.
And do you not remember what he did the year before and the year before that and the year before that.
I'm putting no stock into this win or any win that may happen this season. This is a rebuilding year. I don't care what our record is at the end of the season...I just know that I will continue to support them thru this...AND PUT MY STOCK IN CAPEL.
I have no doubt that we will be back next season.
NickZepp
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Our offense has become more boring under Capel.
You are responding to an oSu fan. Not that it matters, but just an fyi.
skyvue
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Oh, where to begin in pointing out what's incorrect in the above paragraph?
The wife has dinner ready. It'll have to wait.
I'm going to agree with you...Kelvin was an excellent coach, and that is why one of the historically top programs in the country snapped him up to turn things around. His only blemish is NCAA performance, but overall he did fantastic, not to mention towards the end he would have potentially recruited a team with Scottie Reynolds, Austin Johnson, Taylor Griffin and Austin Johnson. And to be clear, Blake was coming with his brother.
Any fan of OU basketball that hates on Kelvin is ignorant of the facts...I've said it before and I'll say it again, he was the equivalent of a human middle finger to an oSu program and IMHO a media push towards making them "the" basketball program in the state. All Kelvin did was not only keep OU Basketball in the spotlight, but tortured the Sutton's so badly that they turned him in on minor infractions. But the thing that people forget is the KELVIN LEFT OU, he didn't get run off or anything like that...hell, his son stayed in the program, how bad could it of been?
I was a big supporter of Capel, and on some level I still think it is best for the overall stability of the program that he be given an opportunity to turn this thing around this year and next, but to rip Kelvin as a defense to Capel is just pure stupid IMHO as the two are completely unrelated. This is going to be a tough year, pretty sure everyone knew it once two guys that are getting paid to pay professionally left after a year in the program, I think Jeff learned and has moved on...I'm not going to waste my time defending his positives to those that won't listen, but I will defend Kelvin to the death, he kept our program on the map when nobody wanted it to be (except obviously die-hard OU fans).
skyvue
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We averaged more than three wins a season against ranked opponents during Sampson's tenure in Norman. Here's the year-by-year breakdown:
1995
#11 ISU, #9 MU, #1 KU, #18 OSU
1996
#3 (we played only three ranked teams that season)
1997
#23 UT, #15 CU, #18 CU
1998
(we played just two games against ranked opponents that season, both losses to KU)
1999
#19 Ark, #22 OSU, #12 Ariz, #24 UNC-Charlotte
2000
#17 UT, #13 OSU, #13 UT
2001
#25 Ark, #20 UT, #9 KU, #20 UT
2002
#2 Maryland, #18 Mizzou, #9 OSU, #1 KU, #22 Xavier, #7 Arizona
2003
#14 Mich. St., #3 UConn, #16 OSU, #6 KU
2004
#5 Mich. St., #16 Purdue, #18 Texas Tech
2005
#12 UConn, #15 UT, #9 OSU, #8 KU
2006
#4 UT (played just three games against ranked teams)
1995
#11 ISU, #9 MU, #1 KU, #18 OSU
1996
#3 (we played only three ranked teams that season)
1997
#23 UT, #15 CU, #18 CU
1998
(we played just two games against ranked opponents that season, both losses to KU)
1999
#19 Ark, #22 OSU, #12 Ariz, #24 UNC-Charlotte
2000
#17 UT, #13 OSU, #13 UT
2001
#25 Ark, #20 UT, #9 KU, #20 UT
2002
#2 Maryland, #18 Mizzou, #9 OSU, #1 KU, #22 Xavier, #7 Arizona
2003
#14 Mich. St., #3 UConn, #16 OSU, #6 KU
2004
#5 Mich. St., #16 Purdue, #18 Texas Tech
2005
#12 UConn, #15 UT, #9 OSU, #8 KU
2006
#4 UT (played just three games against ranked teams)
year roundwelost seed opponent seed
95 1st 4 Manhattan 13 Minor
96 1st 10 Temple 7 Minor, Erdmann
97 1st 11 Stanford 6 Erdmann, Brewer, Najera
98 1st 10 Indiana 7 Brewer, Najera, Humphrey
99 E8 13 MSU 1 Najera, Humphrey
00 2nd 3 Purdue 6 Najera, Price
01 1st 4 Ind st 13 Price, Mcgee
02 F4 2 Ind 5 Price, Mcgee, Ere
03 E8 1 S'Cuse 3 Price, Ere, Bookout
04 Did not make the Tourney Bookout, Alexander, Lavender
05 2nd 3 Utah 6 Gray, Bookout, Everett
06 1st 6 Wis-Mil 11 Gray, Bookout, Everett
Indiana
07 2nd 7 UCLA 2
08 1st 8 Ark 9 Gordon, White
I'm not saying Sampson isn't a good coach. He just wasn't the coach for me. He got us to the tournament and got us winning records. But year after year our teams underachieved when it mattered.
People say Capel only won b/c of Griffin...Well at least he went as far as he could in the tournament with him. B/c I see teams that were better that couldn't get passed the 1st round.
and in 2004 when Sampson didn't make it...The comparison to that team and last years team is very close. Lavender/TMG, Detrick/Crocker, Alexander/Warren, Bookout/Gallon, Brown/Fitz, Mckenzie/Pledger, Foust/Davis, Gilbert/Wright.
skyvue
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Perhaps not, but you did say our regular-season success under Sampson was a "mirage" because we didn't beat good teams. I've exposed that for the mischaracterization it was.
Also, not all our early-round losses in the tourney were big upsets. Several were to higher-ranked teams, and several others were to teams who were only two or three seeds below us. In Sampson's 11 trips to the NCAA, we suffered only three losses to a team that was more three seeds worse than we were.
To hear the Sampson haters tell it, you'd think we lost to a #16 seed ten years out of eleven.
Seymore Cox
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I like Coach Capel and Coach Sampson a lot. I wish Capel would start using ins interpersonal skills to his advantage in motivating kids. But I want to see him at OU.
Not that it matters to the anti-Sampson crowd, but he was no longer coaching the IU team in '08 NCAA tourney. And the '04 team did at least make the NIT, so your comparison falls on deaf ears. And.. I think it's a shame that people think Kelvin's teams just held the ball and played good D. The Final 4 and Elite 8 teams scored at will. The 05 Co-B12 team put some points up and played a very fan-friendly game with Taj, Terrell, Drew, Bookout, and McKenzie. YouTube the OSU highlights from that team if you want to see "slowdown basketball".
What Kelvin did (and this is the biggest key to his success) was play to the strength of his personnel, whatever that might have been. If he only had 1-2 scorers (Minor, Erdmann), he ran clock and tried to get shots for those players. If he had 4-5 (Ace, Ebi, Hollis, Quannis, JD), he let them play. And score or not, all of his teams played good D and had a chance to win on nights when the shots weren't falling.
Say what you want about the phone calls, and maybe it was time for him to leave when he did, but the man knew how to win games. I'd take some Heart, Hustle, and Hardwood over the product we are watching now any day of the week.
What Kelvin did (and this is the biggest key to his success) was play to the strength of his personnel, whatever that might have been. If he only had 1-2 scorers (Minor, Erdmann), he ran clock and tried to get shots for those players. If he had 4-5 (Ace, Ebi, Hollis, Quannis, JD), he let them play. And score or not, all of his teams played good D and had a chance to win on nights when the shots weren't falling.
Say what you want about the phone calls, and maybe it was time for him to leave when he did, but the man knew how to win games. I'd take some Heart, Hustle, and Hardwood over the product we are watching now any day of the week.
I never said that we didn't have good teams...so beating the teams you listed shouldn't be a shocker. There were a lot of conference teams you listed and not a whole lot of nonconference teams. And also, you could have listed all of the teams that we lost too during that time period as well, not pick out the wins against Colorado and OSU.
And a lot of the 1st round losses were big upsets. It don't matter what seeds they were...When it came to Sampson coaching during that time...it didn't matter what team we had...For them to make it past the 1st round was a stretch
Most people on here say that Capel can't win w/o Griffin. Well Griffin might be the best OU player ever...but Sampson had Minor, Erdmann and Brewer who might be in the top 10 best ever and Capel at least took his team to the elite 8 with him, while Sampson couldn't get out of the 1st round with them.
1 or 2 scorers....I didn't realize that Capel had more than that on his team.
95..Sampson had Minor, Abercrombie and Ontjes and 96 he had Minor, Abercrombie and Erdmann. Thats not too mention other guys as well.
At least Capel was able to make it out of the 1st round with Griffin and Longar. And Griffin as a freshman was not better than Minor, Erdmann or Brewer during their senior years.
And you give props to Sampson for making the NIT...good for him...but I guess we shouldn't be suprise that he didn't make it pass the 2nd round in that tournament either.
NickZepp
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Lets go year for year for Sampson in the tournament.
1995
Manhatten. This is one where we should have won. Manhatten was a lesser team. We couldn't hit a shot that day as I recall.
1996-Temple was a 7 seed. This is usually considered a toss up game. But Temple is a style we never matched up well. I remember a few games against Princeton that gave us a tough time. They play that same type of style. But even if we win that game we had no shot against Cincinnati.
1997-Lost to Stanford a 6 seed in the first round. Stanford game Utah all they wanted and nearly made it to the Elite 8. Winning that game was going to be an uphill climb. That team was really good. The next game we face Tim Duncan and Wake Forest. Yeah good luck with that when we basically had no inside game. We didn't even have Najera yet really. I think he started playing some late that year but he wasn't really a force till the end of the next seasons.
1998 Indiana-I was really disappointed at this one. I really thought we would win that game. But it was an OT game we just seemed to run out of gas in the end. We really should have won this one though. We win that game and we would have had to play a pretty strong UConn team. I doubt we win that game.
Let's go through the first 4 seasons. We were double digit seeds. And this was in an era of less parody than we have even today when 12 and 13 seeds win just about every year.
1999 We go to the sweet 16 as a 13 seed. And even played a really talented Michigan State team real tough.
2000 After whipping Winthrop we lose a close game to Purdue. And that game came down to the wire. We could have easily won that game. That Purdue team ended up going to the Elite Eight.
2001 lost to Indiana State. Really embarassing lost but we also lost JR Raymond late that year and then lost Hollis Price to injury in that game. Even if we win that game, we would be more disgusted with the team getting blown out in the next game against Gonzaga. I think that team has a shot at making a pretty decent run if Raymond wasn't kicked off the team for smoking weed, and Hollis Price didn't hurt his hand. We at least win the first game with one of those 2.
2002 Final Four. If Quannas White doesn't hurt his ankle we probably win it all that year.
2003 lost to eventual national champs in Syracuse
There's nothing to complain about the in the last 2 seasons. Those speak for themselves. Again the previous 3 seasons 99 also speaks for itself. Those were 3 really successful seasons. If OU hits shots late against Purdue we are talking about 2000 the same way. And that team has a shot at running real deep in the tournament because the bracket opened up like crazy. The only dud is 2001 and we didn't have two of our best guards. What do you really expect?
2004 was the NIT year when we lost just about everyone off the year before and we had a ton of injuries. This may have been one of Kelvin's best coaching jobs because we only had like 8 players for half the season that could practice and we still won 20 games.
2005 Beat the tar out of Niagra then lose basically a blowout against Utah in Tuscon Arizona(basically a road game) and they couldn't miss a shot. We didn't really play all that bad that game they hit so many shots the fire alarm went off as I recall.
2006 lost to Wisconsin Milwaukee who was better than we were. But I feel that OU team quit late in the season. Seemed like right after a close win over OSU they just kinda quit. Got killed by Texas, lost in the Conference tournament to a horrible team. ISU or Nebraska or something like that. And Wisc-Mil was just the better team. They should have won by more in that game.
There's really only 2 seasons I think OU could have done better the first year and the last year. Maybe you can throw 2000 also. But I don't really consider that a disappointing loss because Purdue was good and we that game could have easily gone our way. The first year we blew it.
The last year it seemed like everything was going against Kelvin and the program. I can't remember the exact time line of when the self imposed sanctions were announced but it seemed like that team played a little out of character for a Kelvin team late in the year and the cloud of the NCAA stuff was maybe getting to Kelvin and the team. I'm not going to excuse any of it but it seemed to me like that team kinda quit unlike most Kelvin teams.
1995
Manhatten. This is one where we should have won. Manhatten was a lesser team. We couldn't hit a shot that day as I recall.
1996-Temple was a 7 seed. This is usually considered a toss up game. But Temple is a style we never matched up well. I remember a few games against Princeton that gave us a tough time. They play that same type of style. But even if we win that game we had no shot against Cincinnati.
1997-Lost to Stanford a 6 seed in the first round. Stanford game Utah all they wanted and nearly made it to the Elite 8. Winning that game was going to be an uphill climb. That team was really good. The next game we face Tim Duncan and Wake Forest. Yeah good luck with that when we basically had no inside game. We didn't even have Najera yet really. I think he started playing some late that year but he wasn't really a force till the end of the next seasons.
1998 Indiana-I was really disappointed at this one. I really thought we would win that game. But it was an OT game we just seemed to run out of gas in the end. We really should have won this one though. We win that game and we would have had to play a pretty strong UConn team. I doubt we win that game.
Let's go through the first 4 seasons. We were double digit seeds. And this was in an era of less parody than we have even today when 12 and 13 seeds win just about every year.
1999 We go to the sweet 16 as a 13 seed. And even played a really talented Michigan State team real tough.
2000 After whipping Winthrop we lose a close game to Purdue. And that game came down to the wire. We could have easily won that game. That Purdue team ended up going to the Elite Eight.
2001 lost to Indiana State. Really embarassing lost but we also lost JR Raymond late that year and then lost Hollis Price to injury in that game. Even if we win that game, we would be more disgusted with the team getting blown out in the next game against Gonzaga. I think that team has a shot at making a pretty decent run if Raymond wasn't kicked off the team for smoking weed, and Hollis Price didn't hurt his hand. We at least win the first game with one of those 2.
2002 Final Four. If Quannas White doesn't hurt his ankle we probably win it all that year.
2003 lost to eventual national champs in Syracuse
There's nothing to complain about the in the last 2 seasons. Those speak for themselves. Again the previous 3 seasons 99 also speaks for itself. Those were 3 really successful seasons. If OU hits shots late against Purdue we are talking about 2000 the same way. And that team has a shot at running real deep in the tournament because the bracket opened up like crazy. The only dud is 2001 and we didn't have two of our best guards. What do you really expect?
2004 was the NIT year when we lost just about everyone off the year before and we had a ton of injuries. This may have been one of Kelvin's best coaching jobs because we only had like 8 players for half the season that could practice and we still won 20 games.
2005 Beat the tar out of Niagra then lose basically a blowout against Utah in Tuscon Arizona(basically a road game) and they couldn't miss a shot. We didn't really play all that bad that game they hit so many shots the fire alarm went off as I recall.
2006 lost to Wisconsin Milwaukee who was better than we were. But I feel that OU team quit late in the season. Seemed like right after a close win over OSU they just kinda quit. Got killed by Texas, lost in the Conference tournament to a horrible team. ISU or Nebraska or something like that. And Wisc-Mil was just the better team. They should have won by more in that game.
There's really only 2 seasons I think OU could have done better the first year and the last year. Maybe you can throw 2000 also. But I don't really consider that a disappointing loss because Purdue was good and we that game could have easily gone our way. The first year we blew it.
The last year it seemed like everything was going against Kelvin and the program. I can't remember the exact time line of when the self imposed sanctions were announced but it seemed like that team played a little out of character for a Kelvin team late in the year and the cloud of the NCAA stuff was maybe getting to Kelvin and the team. I'm not going to excuse any of it but it seemed to me like that team kinda quit unlike most Kelvin teams.
skyvue
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Why would I list the teams we lost to? I was responding to your statement that our regular-season success under Sampson was just a "mirage" because we didn't play anybody good, which is nonsense. I didn't "pick out" ISU and Colorado; they were ranked teams when we played and beat them, so I included them on my list of -- wait for it -- ranked teams that we played and beat during Sampson's tenure.
I can't help it that the actual facts don't match up with your spin on the Sampson years.
What does that even mean? If two relatively close seeds play each other, it's by definition not a big upset if the lower seed wins. That's what the seeds mean. If a 4 seed beats a 1, that's the equivalent during the regular season of a #16-ranked team beating a #1 team, or even a #13-ranked team beating a team ranked #4 in the country. Are those a huge upsets? Of course not.
And which of Minor, Brewer, Erdmann were the #1 pick in the NBA draft? Or even 1st rounders. Top 10 ever at OU?? Not saying they were not good players. All three were. But to throw those out there in comparison to Blake, Longar, Taylor, AJ, Crocker? Please.
Bottom line is Sampson missed the NCAA's one time in his stay here. Once. Capel has missed twice and and well on his way to missing his 3rd in 5 years. And just so you know, I am not in the "fire Capel" club. I just think trying to put Capel near Sampson in terms of coaching and success at this time is a very long reach.
