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SoonerBounce13 said:
so in other words, Joe Biden is a product of the evil capitalistic society?
My point was that many of the high ranking democrats try to appeal to their voters by spouting rhetoric that they have never lived through. Denouncing capitalism and greed, yet they reap the benefits of capitalism
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How on Earth is that your response to what I posted? Is Joe Biden a socialist now or something? Did I miss something somewhere?
 
I don't doubt that Biden is a good guy (although him smelling people and touching kids is really creepy). He is personable. But he would be nothing but a mouth piece for the democratic socialists. I fully expect him to resign at some point if he wins so we can have the first woman presidant and the DSA agenda can take shape
 
thebigabd said:
How on Earth is that your response to what I posted? Is Joe Biden a socialist now or something? Did I miss something somewhere?
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You don't see how hypocritical it is to denounce something (rich evil greedy capitalists) while you benefiting it at the same time?
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
You don't see how hypocritical it is to denounce something (rich evil greedy capitalists) while you benefiting it at the same time?
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Before I answer that, I want to be clear. are you talking about me or Joe Biden? The answer is very different depending on who you are talking about. I am happy to answer, I just need to know how to address it.
 
I'll admit that Biden doesn't speak as much about the wealth inequality and the need to tax the rich more as others. But he does bring it up now and then
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
I'll admit that Biden doesn't speak as much about the wealth inequality and the need to tax the rich more as others. But he does bring it up now and then
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Why would it be hypocritical for him to speak on those topics? He came from a blue collar family and as of 2016 he was only worth about $400,000. I bet there are many people on this message board whose net worth is higher than that.

He signed a book deal in 2017 for several million dollars but up to that point he was not in the least bit rich.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
I'll admit that Biden doesn't speak as much about the wealth inequality and the need to tax the rich more as others. But he does bring it up now and then
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I don't really understand your logic on this.... Let's use Bernie Sanders as an example. He is wealthy now (mostly off book deals)... but is a champion for socialist causes and indeed labels himself a democratic socialist.

The first thing you have to address in this situation is the notion that because you want a different tax system, wealthy people to pay a higher tax, end loopholes, etc that you shouldn't have any money yourself. You are basically saying "Bernie is rich, but wants to enact policies that take money from the rich, therefore he is a hypocrite".

Bernie has tons of problems with capitalism, but he has made a lot of money. But did he make a lot of money because of capitalism?

Lots of people in the countries Bernie wants to model after have rich people.... Jeff Bezos would still be extraordinarily wealthy, even if we taxes 90% of his earnings after a certain amount. You would still have lots and lots of rich people. Now, what some want to do is basically tax billionaires out of existence, and simply make them hundred millionaires. That's a tax argument though, not a capitalist argument.

Example, by your logic, the US is basically the only "capitalist" country on earth... Every other developed nation is a socialist one, because they have things like wealth re-distribution (via tax policy), universal healthcare, education benefits, etc. Even bastions of free market capitalism like Singapore and Hong Kong have these things.

All of these countries that Bernie wants to model after, mostly like Sweden, Norway, and Denmark... have market economies. That is what makes you capitalist. The businesses operate in a free market, and are owned by private citizens.

What truly makes you socialist is when the state runs the business. That is like China. Although China is doing more of a hybrid system these days, where the govt has influence over "private" companies and has great power over them.

So, Norway has a market economy, private business ownership, etc. They are a capitalist country. Now, what they have is a robust democracy, and they have a different tax system and social welfare system than we have. Doesn't mean they are a socialist country, it just means they do a lot more of the things we also do. We have universal healthcare, but just for old people. We have UBI, but just for retired people... We have public schools... We have a public postal service... Some of our citizens get to go to school for free, etc. They just do a lot more of these things, but they do so within a market economy.

Conservatives in this country either believe or have been led to believe that any/all of these things makes you a communist. That isn't true at all. Again, by that definition, every other country on the planet is a communist state. We know that isn't true. All these places have open and free market economies, they just do a lot more with their tax revenue. They spend a lot less on military, and a lot more in the community. They do have aspects of socialism in their country, because they do have some state-run industries. Those aren't inherently bad. Where you can go wrong is when ALL or too much industry is run by the state. Then you start getting into real communism/socialism. But the things we are talking about don't even being to approach that level, in my opinion.

Just my thoughts....
 
thebigabd said:
I don't really understand your logic on this.... Let's use Bernie Sanders as an example. He is wealthy now (mostly off book deals)... but is a champion for socialist causes and indeed labels himself a democratic socialist.

The first thing you have to address in this situation is the notion that because you want a different tax system, wealthy people to pay a higher tax, end loopholes, etc that you shouldn't have any money yourself. You are basically saying "Bernie is rich, but wants to enact policies that take money from the rich, therefore he is a hypocrite".

Bernie has tons of problems with capitalism, but he has made a lot of money. But did he make a lot of money because of capitalism?

Lots of people in the countries Bernie wants to model after have rich people.... Jeff Bezos would still be extraordinarily wealthy, even if we taxes 90% of his earnings after a certain amount. You would still have lots and lots of rich people. Now, what some want to do is basically tax billionaires out of existence, and simply make them hundred millionaires. That's a tax argument though, not a capitalist argument.

Example, by your logic, the US is basically the only "capitalist" country on earth... Every other developed nation is a socialist one, because they have things like wealth re-distribution (via tax policy), universal healthcare, education benefits, etc. Even bastions of free market capitalism like Singapore and Hong Kong have these things.

All of these countries that Bernie wants to model after, mostly like Sweden, Norway, and Denmark... have market economies. That is what makes you capitalist. The businesses operate in a free market, and are owned by private citizens.

What truly makes you socialist is when the state runs the business. That is like China. Although China is doing more of a hybrid system these days, where the govt has influence over "private" companies and has great power over them.

So, Norway has a market economy, private business ownership, etc. They are a capitalist country. Now, what they have is a robust democracy, and they have a different tax system and social welfare system than we have. Doesn't mean they are a socialist country, it just means they do a lot more of the things we also do. We have universal healthcare, but just for old people. We have UBI, but just for retired people... We have public schools... We have a public postal service... Some of our citizens get to go to school for free, etc. They just do a lot more of these things, but they do so within a market economy.

Conservatives in this country either believe or have been led to believe that any/all of these things makes you a communist. That isn't true at all. Again, by that definition, every other country on the planet is a communist state. We know that isn't true. All these places have open and free market economies, they just do a lot more with their tax revenue. They spend a lot less on military, and a lot more in the community. They do have aspects of socialism in their country, because they do have some state-run industries. Those aren't inherently bad. Where you can go wrong is when ALL or too much industry is run by the state. Then you start getting into real communism/socialism. But the things we are talking about don't even being to approach that level, in my opinion.

Just my thoughts....
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ok?
I don't need a lesson on capitalist vs socialist vs communism.

I can't really help you if you don't see how hypocritical it is for wealthy people to villainize the wealthy to the less fortunate. It is strictly for votes.

We say it almost daily with the Clintons when Trump was running for POTUS. They (and others) would attack trump and others with money while they themselves were millionaires.

Or Bernie talking about wealth distribution and how many homes trump has while bernie himself owns 3 homes.

If you believe in this cause so much, why are you not practicing it?
Its all for politics. And this isn't just a liberal issue.
If you go look at video of obama, the clintons, biden,etc from 15 years ago, you would see that they had very very similar views on the key issues that conservatives do today. They have changed their positions for political gain.
In other words, it was OK for Hilary to be well off and own multiple homes until Trump was running against her and she started to use his wealth against him,etc.
 
steverocks35 said:
By the way, still no photos or videos of thousands of people turned away at the gates. They're on the space ship!!!!
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Actually, there were photos but you wouldn’t believe it anyway. You wouldn’t change your tune or your small mind. You keep beating the drum of hypocrisy and pettiness that you started from day 1.
 
mict085 said:
Actually, there were photos but you wouldn’t believe it anyway. You wouldn’t change your tune or your small mind. You keep beating the drum of hypocrisy and pettiness that you started from day 1.
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Lmao, sure.

Share the photos of the missing invisible 2,000 people with the group. I'll wait.

You keep beating the drum of unhinged delusion you started from day 1.
 
steverocks35 said:
Lol, not true. They only canceled the outside speeches when it was obvious nobody was there. They started tearing down the stage about 30 minutes before the event started.

Were your family and friends inside the arena or were they outside monitoring all the entrances and noting the size of the crowd that didn't get in? I'm assuming they weren't outside monitoring the entrances lol.

Sorry, but I'm going to trust reality and common sense lol.
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If you could read you'd know that my uncle was outside, b/c he was never able to get in.

So yes, he had the perspective of being at the gate and actually seeing what happened.
 
WTSooner said:
If you could read you'd know that my uncle was outside, b/c he was never able to get in.

So yes, he had the perspective of being at the gate and actually seeing what happened.
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yes, one gate was temporarily shut down but the Tulsa police said it reopened and nobody was denied entry. Are they lying? Why are they lying? Did your uncle get a photo of the 2,000 people that couldn't get in? Why didn't they go over to the stage that was set up for them?
 
Over all streaming services, over 10 million people live streamed the Trump rally.
 
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