Denzel Valentine is The AP Player of the Year

[skyvue]

So you're saying Valentine, who averaged 19 points a game deserved the award over Buddy, who averaged 25 but had one bad game against WV?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

There are OU fans -- and I will never understand them but they're out there -- who hold our own coaches and players to a much higher standard than opposing coaches and players.

How any OU fan could feel Valentine was more deserving than Buddy, I cannot fathom. That is not to say Valentine was not worthy of consideration -- he obviously was -- but for anyone among the Sooner faithful to say he was more deserving than Buddy? Mind-boggling.

 

[bgrch1350]

So you're saying Valentine, who averaged 19 points a game deserved the award over Buddy, who averaged 25 but had one bad game against WV?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Valentine average 7 rebounds and 8 assist a game. compared to buddy's 5 rebounds and 2 assist a game.

 

[hoopsaustin]

So you're saying Valentine, who averaged 19 points a game deserved the award over Buddy, who averaged 25 but had one bad game against WV?

Yeah, that makes perfect sense.

Right? Ha valentines numbers are really good.. but that speaks to how crazy Buddys are this year. This award should have been a runaway

 

[Sooner04]

I'm pulling a WTSooner and quoting myself from THIS thread to show the proper foreshadowing.

Valentine is the more complete player. Buddy is flashier and more likeable.

It's Buddy's to lose, with Valentine on his heels. Going to be tough for Valentine to overcome what Buddy did in Larryville though.

I'm sure Valentine would give more than some complimentary orthodontics to switch places with Buddy Love right now.

 

[tycat947]

Valentine only won by 3 votes, so yes, it likely wouldn't even be close.

Buddy had a bad game. His first one, really (his only game to score in single digits all season), but any AP voter who hadn't been paying attention all year -- let's face it, Buddy was the dominant player all season long -- and was swayed by one outing (one in which he came within a fingernail of hitting an astonishing game-winning shot, at that), is an idiot and doesn't deserve to have a vote.

So true!

 

[WTSooner]

At the end of the regular season, or the post conference tournies, it was was close. I said it then, and I'll say it now. Buddy might have had the better overall stats (that is debatable when you add in secondary stats other than scoring), but the fact is MSU was on a big time winning streak (13-1) in large part to Valentine, and OU was seen as sputtering a bit (6-5 in our last 11).

 

[scrybe]

Valentine average 7 rebounds and 8 assist a game. compared to buddy's 5 rebounds and 2 assist a game.

Well, that just blows my argument all to hades, doesn't it?

There are OU fans -- and I will never understand them but they're out there -- who hold our own coaches and players to a much higher standard than opposing coaches and players.

How any OU fan could feel Valentine was more deserving than Buddy, I cannot fathom. That is not to say Valentine was not worthy of consideration -- he obviously was -- but for anyone among the Sooner faithful to say he was more deserving than Buddy? Mind-boggling.

You're obviously failing to realize that bgrch1350 is not an OU fan.

 

[bgrch1350]

Well, that just blows my argument all to hades, doesn't it?



You're obviously failing to realize that bgrch1350 is not an OU fan.

In order to be an OU fan I have to throw logic and stats out the window?

 

[Chaser728]

At the end of the regular season, or the post conference tournies, it was was close. I said it then, and I'll say it now. Buddy might have had the better overall stats (that is debatable when you add in secondary stats other than scoring), but the fact is MSU was on a big time winning streak (13-1) in large part to Valentine, and OU was seen as sputtering a bit (6-5 in our last 11).

I think you are exactly right about it being the status of the teams and the perception which swayed it towards Valentine's favor. Oh, and it was also those dang utility knives. I kept telling you guys they would swing the pendulum. LOL!

 

[bgrch1350]

At the end of the regular season, or the post conference tournies, it was was close. I said it then, and I'll say it now. Buddy might have had the better overall stats (that is debatable when you add in secondary stats other than scoring), but the fact is MSU was on a big time winning streak (13-1) in large part to Valentine, and OU was seen as sputtering a bit (6-5 in our last 11).

+1

 

[Zimwillett]

Buddy won my vote during the tournament but Valentine had it before the tournament started. Lets not forget, Buddy had his worst game of the year against WV where he didn't even score in double digits. Valentine averages 19, 7 and 8. Thats pretty darn good.

I bet if the AP voters got to recast their vote now, Buddy would win it.

I agree with others who say that it's an indictment on the AP voters if they let one game in the conference tournament sway their vote. That WVU game was literally the only game all season in which Buddy was held under double digit scoring. The night before, he went off on Iowa State for 39 so if anything, the WVU game was an aberration. And Valentine was good in the Big 10 tournament, but it wasn't like he did anything spectacular to overtake Buddy.

This really did come down to regional bias. There are about 15 AP voters from Big 10 states and about 5 from Big 12 states.

 

[WTSooner]

Per Sports Reference.com:

PER this season for Buddy was 28.7.
PER this season for Valentine was 29.7.

At year-end, before the postseason stuff could be a factor, this battle was neck and neck.

 

[OUFtball]

Buddy---FG%--.509
Denzel--FG%---.462

Buddy--3 point%---.465
Denzel-3 point %---.444

Buddy--Points /gam---25.4
Denzel--points /gm---19.2

 

[sperry]

Buddy---FG%--.509
Denzel--FG%---.462

Buddy--3 point%---.465
Denzel-3 point %---.444

Buddy--Points /gam---25.4
Denzel--points /gm---19.2

That ignores basically every other relevant stat.

 

[SoonerJK12]

I agree that it was a close race; however...

Buddy had more special moments this season. He had way more games where he made people say "WOW". And that's why he deserved to be Player of the Year.

Maybe I didn't see enough Mich State games?

 

[bgrch1350]

Buddy---FG%--.509
Denzel--FG%---.462

Buddy--3 point%---.465
Denzel-3 point %---.444

Buddy--Points /gam---25.4
Denzel--points /gm---19.2

there is more to the game than just points.

I love buddy. What he has done during the tournament would win anyone the award. It helps during the big 10 championship that Valentine was 1 assist away from a triple double.

 

[scrybe]

That ignores basically every other relevant stat.

Yes, especially the one that shows Valentine played for Izzo and Michigan State.

 

[bgrch1350]

Yes, especially the one that shows Valentine played for Izzo and Michigan State.

Buddy is going to win the Wooden award. Just give props to Valentine for his great year. Buddy is going to get his fair share of awards.

 

[skyvue]

In order to be an OU fan I have to throw logic and stats out the window?

It might be nice if you didn't cherry-pick stats, though. If you're going to cite stats, cite 'em all.

It's a given Valentine would have more assists: He played point guard (see? Logic!)

But Valentine had fewer steals, fewer than half as many blocks, and he shot worse than Buddy did--from the field, from downtown and from the line. Somehow those stats don't get mentioned (not in your posts, anyway).

What's more, MSU also played a significantly weaker schedule than OU did.

 

[thebigabd]

Denzel was responsible for about 33 points per game minimum, combing PPG and APG. Plus 7.5 rebounds. He is also a ridiculous 3pt shooter.

Buddy was responsible for about 29 points per game minimum, combining PPG and APG. Plus 5.7 rebounds. Ridiculous 3pt shooter.

This doesnt seem off to me. Denzel contributed more than Buddy. What's the problem here?