Denzel Valentine is The AP Player of the Year

[bgrch1350]

It might be nice if you didn't cherry-pick stats, though. If you're going to cite stats, cite 'em all.

It's a given Valentine would have more assists: He played point guard (see? Logic!)

But Valentine had fewer steals, fewer than half as many blocks, and he shot worse than Buddy did--from the field, from downtown and from the line. Somehow those stats don't get mentioned (not in your posts, anyway).

What's more, MSU also played a significantly weaker schedule than OU did.

If your going to go that deep into stats..You can say that Buddy averaged more turnovers a game.

 

[Escape Goat]

Bgrch, ever the contrarian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Chaser728]

If your going to go that deep into stats..You can say that Buddy averaged more turnovers a game.

yes. it was 2.7 to 3.0... Not a huge differential. But you're right it is a difference. Neither were great in this category.

 

[scrybe]

Be careful, bgrch will accuse you of throwing logic out the window. :ez-laugh:

 

[OUFtball]

From NBC Sports

PLAYER OF THE YEAR POWER RANKINGS: It’s Buddy Hield and then everyone else


There’s no denying it at this point: Buddy Hield is the favorite to win the Player of the Year award in college basketball this season.

Anyone that says otherwise is being contrarian for the sake of being contrarian, and there are a couple of reasons for that. For starters, Hield is having the most efficient season of any high-usage player in the KenPom era. I explained this in detail yesterday (right here), but for simplicity’s sake, no one in the last 13 years has been as potent offensively as Buddy. Not J.J. Redick or Adam Morrison or Stephen Curry or Jimmer Fredette or Doug McDermott. No one.

He’s also the only player since the 1994-95 season to shoot at least eight threes per game and make more than 52.0 percent of those threes. The closest anyone came to that was Troy Hudson of Southern Illinois, who shot 51.1 percent on 8.7 3PAs per game.

So yes, Hield is having a historically great season.

 

[skyvue]

Denzel was responsible for about 33 points per game minimum, combing PPG and APG. Plus 7.5 rebounds. He is also a ridiculous 3pt shooter.

This idea that an assist should be given as much credit, when assessing a player's stats, as a made shot (or free throw) is -- with respect, abd -- laughable.

I'm not saying no credit should be given for assists, but if a PG makes an easy pass to a talented teammate behind the line and that player hits a three? Sorry, that should NOT be three points to the PG's credit. If you're going to give the PG credit for every made shot he sets up with a pass, maybe you should dock him some points for the times he makes a pass to an open player and they miss the shot.

Yes, that last is a ridiculous suggestion, but so is the idea that the assist man gets as much credit as the scorer. On rare plays, when a particularly stellar pass is made, sure, but most assists would not qualify.

 

[OUFtball]

This idea that an assist should be given as much credit, when assessing a player's stats, as a made shot (or free throw) is -- with respect, abd laughable

I did laugh....If Manyang throws it out to Buddy and he shoots it 2 feet behind the 3 point line..
Manyang was the reason OU got 3 points.....

 

[Zimwillett]

It might be nice if you didn't cherry-pick stats, though. If you're going to cite stats, cite 'em all.

It's a given Valentine would have more assists: He played point guard (see? Logic!)

But Valentine had fewer steals, fewer than half as many blocks, and he shot worse than Buddy did--from the field, from downtown and from the line. Somehow those stats don't get mentioned (not in your posts, anyway).

What's more, MSU also played a significantly weaker schedule than OU did.

How's this for a little cognitive dissonance:

Haha...Obviously you just look at stats and not watch the game.

-bgrch1350 on December 22, 2015

At the risk of resurrecting a severely beaten dead horse, bgrch's argument in the silly Solomon vs. Lattin debate was that stats don't really matter when comparing two different players.

 

[SoonerJK12]

How's this for a little cognitive dissonance:



At the risk of resurrecting a severely beaten dead horse, bgrch's argument in the silly Solomon vs. Lattin debate was that stats don't really matter when comparing two different players.

Hahaha, thank you for reminding us all that we can ignore bgrch's comments.

 

[scrybe]

This idea that an assist should be given as much credit, when assessing a player's stats, as a made shot (or free throw) is -- with respect, abd -- laughable.

I'm not saying no credit should be given for assists, but if a PG makes an easy pass to a talented teammate behind the line and that player hits a three? Sorry, that should NOT be three points to the PG's credit. If you're going to give the PG credit for every made shot he sets up with a pass, maybe you should dock him some points for the times he makes a pass to an open player and they miss the shot.

Yes, that last is a ridiculous suggestion, but so is the idea that the assist man gets as much credit as the scorer. On rare plays, when a particular stellar pass is made, sure, but most assists would not qualify.

Beat me to it. To suggest that Valentine was "responsible" for 33 points per game (by combining his ppg. and apg.) is not just laughable, its downright ridiculous.

 

[skyvue]

yes. it was 2.7 to 3.0... Not a huge differential. But you're right it is a difference. Neither were great in this category.

Given that bgrch rounded up many of the stats he used to promote Valentine (which he's entitled to do), I'm not giving in. By bgrch's own standards, the two are tied in this category.

 

[Chaser728]

Beat me to it. To suggest that Valentine was "responsible" for 33 points per game (by combining his ppg. and apg.) is not just laughable, its downright ridiculous.

Yes. If I'm an NBA GM maybe this stat matters to me, but should not affect the vote for player of the year.

 

[Chaser728]

Given that bgrch rounded up many of the stats he used to promote Valentine (which he's entitled to do), I'm not giving in. By bgrch's own standards, the two are tied in this category.

you shouldn't give up... it may be a fruitless pursuit, but tired of the cherry picking stats.

 

[OUFtball]

At the risk of resurrecting a severely beaten dead horse, bgrch's argument in the silly Solomon vs. Lattin debate was that stats don't really matter when comparing two different players.

bgrch was on the Solomon side in that argument???Wow...That explains a lot.

 

[bgrch1350]

How's this for a little cognitive dissonance:



At the risk of resurrecting a severely beaten dead horse, bgrch's argument in the silly Solomon vs. Lattin debate was that stats don't really matter when comparing two different players.

I hope you know...if Solomon gets better under their new coach and Lattin doesn't out perform solomon, I will not be bringing this back up for debate.

 

[bgrch1350]

bgrch was on the Solomon side in that argument???Wow...That explains a lot.

I said. If solomon was on our team from day one(as a freshmen)...he would have been starting this year. And since many of you though AK was going to come in and start right away over Lattin this year..I don't back down from this argument. I'm just walking away from it.

But Lattin has surpassed Solomon 10x since the beginning of the season. So let it go. It doesn't change anything in regards to Buddy vs Valentine.

 

[Zimwillett]

I hope you know...if Solomon gets better under their new coach and Lattin doesn't out perform solomon, I will not be bringing this back up for debate.

:ez-laugh:

Good luck with that! Will you use stats? Because back in December, you deemed it inappropriate to "throw out stats" in a debate of this nature.

 

[bgrch1350]

:ez-laugh:

Good luck with that! Will you use stats? Because back in December, you deemed it inappropriate to "throw out stats" in a debate of this nature.

I think its good to turn this post on me. It won't change the fact that the AP voters felt the same way I did prior to the tournament. That Valentine deserved it.

 

[Zimwillett]

I think its good to turn this post on me. It won't change the fact that the AP voters felt the same way I did prior to the tournament. That Valentine deserved it.

The point is you were perfectly willing to dismiss certain statistics when they didn't fit your argument because of the way certain players were used. Now you point to statistics like assists despite the fact Kruger doesn't really ask Buddy to trigger the offense in a way that would lead to assists. You surely see that point, right?

 

[SoonerJK12]

I said. If solomon was on our team from day one(as a freshmen)...he would have been starting this year. And since many of you though AK was going to come in and start right away over Lattin this year..I don't back down from this argument. I'm just walking away from it.

But Lattin has surpassed Solomon 10x since the beginning of the season. So let it go. It doesn't change anything in regards to Buddy vs Valentine.

It does change things though bgrich, you are forever discredited. Your opinions must be wrong because if you really did ever think that that Soloman was better, you can't possibly be right...about anything...ever.