Denzel Valentine is The AP Player of the Year

[soonermom1000]

SO where is Bill Self and Valentine at now???? Oh yeah, they are watching TV.....Watching Kruger and Hield play in the Final Four.......:OU-logo::OU-logo:

 

[WaymanFan]

That's dumb... to average nearly 8 assists per game (7.8) is pretty ridiculous. There are lots of full-time point guards who don't average that, or even close to it. It's an absurd amount of assists for someone who also gets a lot of rebounds and also scores nearly 20 points a game.

• He rebounds way better than Khadeem Lattin, OU's center, whose full time job is to defend and rebound
• He gets way more assists than OU's leading assist person
• He shoots a comparable percentage from 3 than Buddy Hield, the best 3pt shooter in the nation
• He scores nearly 20 points per game

Again with the stats. He wouldn't have close to those stats playing in the Big XII, so why bother posting them. Did you notice when other posters put OU's SOS up against MSU? If not, take a guess which team played a much tougher schedule? Valentine is a great player, and a very likeable one as well...hope he has a home on the next level...but he was the second best player in college basketball this season.

 

[NMSooner'80]

Three thoughts:

1. This is a complete farce, even with an early voting deadline.
2. Think Buddy got burned by voters with a bias against guys from "football schools". Michigan State is good at the gridiron also, but isn't as well-known for it as OU is.
3. It'd be interesting to know if anyone in the Oklahoma media voted for Valentine, as a means to prove they're not "an OU homer." That's been a big issue for years with some of those folks.

 

[Zimwillett]

Three thoughts:

1. This is a complete farce, even with an early voting deadline.
2. Think Buddy got burned by voters with a bias against guys from "football schools". Michigan State is good at the gridiron also, but isn't as well-known for it as OU is.
3. It'd be interesting to know if anyone in the Oklahoma media voted for Valentine, as a means to prove they're not "an OU homer." That's been a big issue for years with some of those folks.

There is only one voter from Oklahoma (only one from Michigan as well). The issue is there are about 15 voters from Big 10 states and only 5 or 6 (depending on how you look at Iowa) from Big 12 states. I also assume (possibly unfairly) that the glut of voters from places like New York and Connecticut tended to favor the player from a more "traditional" basketball school.

I'm guessing there are more than 3 (the total Valentine won by) writers that would change their votes if they had it to do over again. Michigan State homers and a few contrarian OU fans notwithstanding, the overwhelming sentiment seems to be they got this one wrong.

 

[Chaser728]

That's dumb... to average nearly 8 assists per game (7.8) is pretty ridiculous. There are lots of full-time point guards who don't average that, or even close to it. It's an absurd amount of assists for someone who also gets a lot of rebounds and also scores nearly 20 points a game.

• He rebounds way better than Khadeem Lattin, OU's center, whose full time job is to defend and rebound
• He gets way more assists than OU's leading assist person
• He shoots a comparable percentage from 3 than Buddy Hield, the best 3pt shooter in the nation
• He scores nearly 20 points per game

Nearly 8 assists and 7ish rebounds is really really good. But in fairness, so is nearly 26 ppg (see what I did there ) and nearly 6 rebounds. Also, sky's argument was against points responsible stat you posted. Basically he was just saying to get credit for more points because of a pass versus scoring points is not a fair comparison... DV had a great season, but again he doesn't necessarily face the teams best defender every single game, while also playing in the daunting Big 12... Buddy just had a better year and deserved this award...

 

[MNsooner]

Denzel put up numbers against worse competition, missed critical games, chocked in the NCAA. History will definitely remember Buddy as the player of this season.

 

[StatGeek]

SoonerfanTU and bgrch, a match made in heaven, how cute.

 

[OUFtball]

These stats are before the NCAA tourny....

 

[OUFtball]

Here are some comments by former Sooner athletes on Twitter

Brennan Clay
"How in the world did @buddyhield not win AP Player of the Year!?"

Gerald McCoy
"Congrats to winners of various awards but a complete and clear robbing of my dogg @buddyhield for player of the year. Complete disrespect!!"

Tony Jefferson
"That is such a joke that buddy doesn't win Player of the year .. That pisses me off .. Are u kidding me? Cmon so stupid"

Baker Mayfield
"This is ridiculous, POTY is supposed to go to the best player. Our man got robbed. Plus who's team is still playing?"

 

[thebigabd]

You don't put up 8 assists per game on the "routine pass" that leads to a bucket.... you've got to have great ball-handling skills, great vision, and a talent for finding open players to get 8 assists per game.

Buddy Hield makes all sorts of "routine" passes that don't end up stacking his assist numbers.

Also, 8 assists per game in college basketball, along with those kinds of points and rebounds, has to have NBA scouts thinking stat-stuffer in the NBA.

When you see some dominant rebounder in college basketball getting 9-12 boards per game, those are the types of guys who can go to the NBA and have 15-25 rebounds in a game.

Same thing with assists, 8 assists in the college basketball setting is a ton. Especially for a guy averaging 20 points and 7 rebounds.

It's an absurd stat sheet.

 

[MsProudSooner]

1) Stats are nice, but if a voter based his choice solely on stats, he should lose his right to vote.

2) A player's potential in the NBA shouldn't be a factor.

3) Voting shouldn't happen until the season is over.

 

[WTSooner]

3) Voting shouldn't happen until the season is over.

I suggested that yesterday, but everybody (or most everybody) would lose interest if the awards weren't announced until after the final game. I get why they do it the way they do, but yes, it creates a weird dynamic when a guy like Buddy goes off in the Dance, and Valentine has a less than impressive first round game.

 

[Zimwillett]

I suggested that yesterday, but everybody (or most everybody) would lose interest if the awards weren't announced until after the final game. I get why they do it the way they do, but yes, it creates a weird dynamic when a guy like Buddy goes off in the Dance, and Valentine has a less than impressive first round game.

The Wooden Award voted March 14-21, so those voters at least got to see how the first and second rounds played out. The Naismith is voted on and awarded in April after the tournament. Those actually seem to be considered the more prestigious awards, so I don't think people lose interest if the AP just waited to hold their vote a few weeks.

I wouldn't be surprised to see the AP change their voting deadlines after this.

 

[skyvue]

I wouldn't be surprised to see the AP change their voting deadlines after this.

I was thinking the same thing.

Wally Szczerbiak was on Boomer and Carton, a local (but syndicated) sports talk show, this morning with Boomer Esiason and Phil Simms (who was filling in for Carton), and he called the AP vote "a miscarriage of justice."

All three guys raved about Buddy, but neither Boomer nor Simms seemed to know all that much basketball. Boomer went on and on about Villanova's seniors and their coach who's worked so hard to reach this point, and I, of course, am thinking, "Hey, what about our coach? What about our seniors??"

Boomer picked Nova and UNC, with Nova winning it all (I think it's just a northeast thing with him) and Szczerbiak picked OU and UNC, with UNC winning it all.

Anyway, it's online if anyone wants to hear it.

http://newyork.cbslocal.com/2016/04/01/boomer-carton-wally-szczerbiak-talks-final-four-from-houston/

 

[BigTime]

You don't put up 8 assists per game on the "routine pass" that leads to a bucket.... you've got to have great ball-handling skills, great vision, and a talent for finding open players to get 8 assists per game.

Buddy Hield makes all sorts of "routine" passes that don't end up stacking his assist numbers.

Also, 8 assists per game in college basketball, along with those kinds of points and rebounds, has to have NBA scouts thinking stat-stuffer in the NBA.

When you see some dominant rebounder in college basketball getting 9-12 boards per game, those are the types of guys who can go to the NBA and have 15-25 rebounds in a game.

Same thing with assists, 8 assists in the college basketball setting is a ton. Especially for a guy averaging 20 points and 7 rebounds.

It's an absurd stat sheet.

Great players don't let their teams lose to MTSU...his stat stuffing didn't help much there at all.

Great player but not a Buddy Hield.

 

[Big Old Booger]

You are loyal to a fault toward Sampson. You also really shouldn't call ANYONE childish on here, SoonerfanTU. I knew you would be all over this thread before I clicked.

This post is 100% spot on especially the first sentence and that's coming from someone (me) who loves and appreciates Sampson as much as anyone.

 

[WTSooner]

This post is 100% spot on especially the first sentence and that's coming from someone (me) who loves and appreciates Sampson as much as anyone.

So I downplay Buddy b/c I liked Sampson? Dumbest thing I've read on this board, and I've read a lot of really, really dumb stuff here over the years.

Kelvin doesn't coach at OU, doesn't have ties to Buddy, doesn't coach at MSU, and doesn't have ties to Valentine that I'm aware of. So pray tell, why would my saying Valentine had a decent argument for POY award at the end of the conference tournament season (when votes were likely due in) have ANYTHING to do with Kelvin Sampson, coach of the Houston Cougars?

This should be good.

 

[Big Old Booger]

So I downplay Buddy b/c I liked Sampson? Dumbest thing I've read on this board, and I've read a lot of really, really dumb stuff here over the years.

Kelvin doesn't coach at OU, doesn't have ties to Buddy, doesn't coach at MSU, and doesn't have ties to Valentine that I'm aware of. So pray tell, why would my saying Valentine had a decent argument for POY award at the end of the conference tournament season (when votes were likely due in) have ANYTHING to do with Kelvin Sampson, coach of the Houston Cougars?

This should be good.

I don't know BigTime's intent on the comment but in most of your posts you compare everything to Sampson. It may not seem that way to you, but it has to me for a long time and I would guess others have picked up on it too (based on BigTime's post). So, not necessarily your defense of Valentine winning, which you made some good points but other comments you make particularly after a loss or a close win in a game that maybe shouldn't have been close. You hardly ever compliment the players or the coach on the team you claim to follow yet those of us who remember your posting in the Sampson days remember you were quite the opposite.

That's all I'm going to post on the topic and I didn't mean to derail the thread.

Congrats to Valentine, he had a good season but if Buddy played in the Big 10 and Denzel played in the Big 12 Buddy is probably the AP POY because he probably averaged 35 points a game vs sub-standard competition night-in and night-out. Valentine probably didn't hit what he averaged if he were in the Big 12.

 

[OUFtball]

Russell Westbrook has a lot more assists than Steph Curry. I assume Westbrook will beat out Curry for MVP...lol...idiots

 

[152219]

Russell Westbrook has a lot more assists than Steph Curry. I assume Westbrook will beat out Curry for MVP...lol...idiots

Westbrook also has more rebounds than Curry.