Do you think moving to the SEC is better for OU?

[Eielson]

While I find it humorous that the general sentiment toward the SEC among OU and Big 12 fans over the years has been contemptuous, and now it seems like everyone can't wait to join them, I leave you with this..... the story of our old friends up north.

What's that they say about history? Something about learning from it lest you be doomed to repeat it.

Nebraska has played 10 seasons in the Big 10. They are 68-55 and have won their division 1 time. The last 10 years of the Big 12 they were 84-45 and won their division 5 times.

They are picked to finish 12th in the Big 10 this year.





Colorado..... has played 10 seasons in the Pac 10. 43-75....1 winning season in 10 years... Last 10 years in the Big 12.... 60-66. 4 winning seasons. They sucked either way, but they suck WAY worse now.

"This is the dawning of a new day for the Pac-10"
-Pac 12 Commissioner

"Colorado is a perfect match for the Pac-10"
-Colorado President Bruce Benson

And they've finished as the worst team in the league every year since joining, for all intents and purposes. They are projected to suck again this year. Probably the worst team in the league.

West Virginia has been in the Big 12 for 9 years... They were 86-29 in the Big East before making the move.... They are 62-49 since joining the Big 12.

You go join a league with Auburn, LSU, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, Texas, A&M, etc and you have no idea what is going to happen. You have no clue how its going to impact your recruiting, your relationships, your brand, your reputation, your competitive advantages that you've built over the years, etc.

How many times over the last 10 years would those teams in the SEC have been the best team in the Big 12? All 10?

Changing leagues has been a disaster for Nebraska, Colorado, and West Virginia.... Just something to consider before we start popping champagne and order national championship banners.....

We are moving to the SEC...not moving to the Big 10 and cutting the last of our remaining ties to the state of Texas. We're also not a sinking program that has been in a nosedive for over a decade.

Since we're moving to the SEC, why don't you compare us to teams like A&M that also went to the SEC?

 

[skyvue]

Since we're moving to the SEC, why don't you compare us to teams like A&M that also went to the SEC?

The benefits A&M has gained from moving to the SEC are widely overrated. But as long as we're comparing, why not Missouri, which is just barely treading water?

 

[sheepdogs1]

We are moving to the SEC...not moving to the Big 10 and cutting the last of our remaining ties to the state of Texas. We're also not a sinking program that has been in a nosedive for over a decade.

Since we're moving to the SEC, why don't you compare us to teams like A&M that also went to the SEC?

And perhaps Nebraska paid the likes of Turner Gil, Mike Rozier , Irving Fryar and the running back who ended in jail and those who were responsible for such practices changed their stripes thus a different class of talent ended up in Cornhusker uniforms.

 

[MsProudSooner]

A question for those who don't support the move to the SEC: What do you think we should have done instead?

 

[thegreyghost]

They could have stayed and watched Texas walk with someone else and instead of making $65 million+ in the SEC a year make around $25 million in a reconstituted big 12 with what was left and Cinncy and UCF wouldn’t that be great to miss out on $40 mill a year or $400 mill for a 10 year period.

 

[NickZepp]

I get not liking the move. But the money was too good not to make the move. This will make OU and really the state of Oklahoma a ton of money in the long run. It's the right move like it or not. The SEC network deal is still up fairly soon. I think 2024 so I'm sure when that gets announced all the SEC teams will make closer to 100 mil per season.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

The benefits A&M has gained from moving to the SEC are widely overrated. But as long as we're comparing, why not Missouri, which is just barely treading water?

Mizzou Record in SEC:
63-49 over 9 seasons (56%)
2 1st place division finishes (and runner up conference finishes)
4 bowl games
2-10 win seasons

Mizzou Last 9 years in big 12
76-40 (65%)
3 1st place division finishes (2 runner up conference finsihes)
8 bowl games
3-10 win seasons

Basically they are losing 1 more game a year in the SEC


Texas A&M Record in SEC:
77-37 over 9 seasons (67%)
No division or conference titles
9 bowl games
1-10 win seasons

Texas A&M Last 9 years in big 12
42-54 (43%)
No division or conference titles
0-10 win seasons

Basically they are winning 2 more game a year in the SEC

 

[thebigabd]

A question for those who don't support the move to the SEC: What do you think we should have done instead?

Actively try to improve the Big 12 and stop making excuses for why that can't be done. Go find 2 other really good programs and work out a better TV deal.

 

[hoopsaustin]

The benefits A&M has gained from moving to the SEC are widely overrated. But as long as we're comparing, why not Missouri, which is just barely treading water?

This is a bad take

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Actively try to improve the Big 12 and stop making excuses for why that can't be done. Go find 2 other really good programs and work out a better TV deal.

Yeah..i'm sure noone ever thought of that lol

 

[thebigabd]

Yeah..i'm sure noone ever thought of that lol

So they failed?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

So they failed?

yes. The big 12 failed to bring anyone of substance into the league and as a result, the media rights are a joke.

Who do you think they could have pulled that is worth a darn?

 

[Max Power]

So they failed?

yes the big 12 failed. That's why we are leaving this failure of a conference. Boren wanted the conference to expand. The rest of the league didn't want to split the money. So now the other 8 are finding out exactly what they are worth.

 

[NickZepp]

The Big 12 fell apart when Nebraska, Colorado then Mizzou and A&M left. There just wasn't replacing those schools. It lasted longer than it should have but it's over.

 

[NickZepp]

yes the big 12 failed. That's why we are leaving this failure of a conference. Boren wanted the conference to expand. The rest of the league didn't want to split the money. So now the other 8 are finding out exactly what they are worth.

Yep here's a pretty damning article by Mandell on the viewership of the rest of the Big 12 teams. And spoiler alert it's about at the level of the mid major conferences.

https://archive.is/sx2ZY#selection-779.0-779.297

The 22 non-OU/Texas Big 12 home games on ABC, ESPN or ESPN2 over those two seasons averaged 1.37 million viewers. The 49 AAC home games on those same networks averaged 1.01 million viewers. But take away that one mammoth Ohio State-TCU outlier from the Big 12, and its number drops to 1.10 million.
That’s just 90,000 more viewers, on average, than the AAC draws.

 

[thebigabd]

I am going to explain this in the best way I know how.... I think it illustrates the divide.

I think one of the issues that turns people off about "other programs" is their current status... P5, group of 5, mid-major, etc... You guys hear UCF, Cincy, and San Diego State and think "no way they can replace Colorado, A&M, and Nebraska... UCF currently has "X" in TV money!"....

When I hear UCF, Cincy, and San Diego State I think of their potential if they played in a P5 league. Football, for better or worse, is an oppressive institution. Why does Kansas deserve to be in a P5 league, but not UCF? Why does Indiana deserve to be P5, but not San Diego State? Kansas gets 5 times he amount of money in TV deals than UCF, for no other reason than someone made it so.

The people and decisions that formed these leagues didn't do so on a level playing field.... Some teams were elevated into "major" leagues, and others weren't. As a result of that.... players go to schools who were selected to be "high major" or "P5" or "BCS" programs... If UCF was on equal footing as Pittsburgh in terms of the their league and the prestige of that conference, UCF would have as good or better odds of landing more talented recruits than Pittsburgh.

UCF is the largest school in the nation... The schools right behind them are A&M, Florida, Ohio State, Arizona State, Texas, etc..

San Diego State has 36,000 students... Wake Forest has 5,000.

Cincinnati has 44,000 students... 2nd largest in Ohio.... Northwestern has 8,000 students.

Look at TCU.... They joined the league in 2013. Their 2010 recruiting class ranked 46th, 46th in 2009, 96th in 2008, 81st in 2007, etc...

2013: #30 recruiting class
2014: #50 recruiting class
2015: #34 recruiting class
2016: #20 recruiting class
2017: #41 recruiting class
2018: #28 recruiting class
2019: #29 recruiting class

They out-recruited A LOT of historical "P5 programs/BCS Programs" once they joined the Big 12. They went from recruiting classes near 100th, to in the top 30. This happened ONLY because they joined the Big 12. And higher rated players want to play in a league that has more prestige. Not necessarily the TEAM itself, but the league.

San Diego State, UCF, Cincy, and Boise State would experience the same thing. All in major media markets, all huge schools, all in desirable locations, all with proper facilities, etc. These 4 teams in particular would surpass Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Indiana, Illinois, Wake Forest, Syracuse, and all these other programs that get to P5 for no reason other than someone made them P5 at some point quickly.

That's my take....

 

[SoonerBounce13]

No offense big, but you are out of your element.

Nobody is saying those programs wouldn't improve by being in a power 5. That isn't the point.

You think it would be wise for OU to stay in a league and add those teams vs go to the SEC?

Sounds like you want everything to be equal. That isn't how the world works nor should it.

 

[NickZepp]

The 22 non-OU/Texas Big 12 home games on ABC, ESPN or ESPN2 over those two seasons averaged 1.37 million viewers. The 49 AAC home games on those same networks averaged 1.01 million viewers. But take away that one mammoth Ohio State-TCU outlier from the Big 12, and its number drops to 1.10 million.

That says it all. The rest of the Big 12 teams are glorified mid majors

 

[NickZepp]

If the Big 12 were more forward thinking and got a Network around the time the Big 10 network came out then you never saw the other teams league and the league would still be strong. Maybe even stronger than it was before. But they top 4 programs decided against that and lost their share in the market in the long term. Now we are seeing cable implode and the only real network that can keep it going up in price is ESPN.

 

[Max Power]

I am going to explain this in the best way I know how.... I think it illustrates the divide.

I think one of the issues that turns people off about "other programs" is their current status... P5, group of 5, mid-major, etc... You guys hear UCF, Cincy, and San Diego State and think "no way they can replace Colorado, A&M, and Nebraska... UCF currently has "X" in TV money!"....

When I hear UCF, Cincy, and San Diego State I think of their potential if they played in a P5 league. Football, for better or worse, is an oppressive institution. Why does Kansas deserve to be in a P5 league, but not UCF? Why does Indiana deserve to be P5, but not San Diego State? Kansas gets 5 times he amount of money in TV deals than UCF, for no other reason than someone made it so.

The people and decisions that formed these leagues didn't do so on a level playing field.... Some teams were elevated into "major" leagues, and others weren't. As a result of that.... players go to schools who were selected to be "high major" or "P5" or "BCS" programs... If UCF was on equal footing as Pittsburgh in terms of the their league and the prestige of that conference, UCF would have as good or better odds of landing more talented recruits than Pittsburgh.

UCF is the largest school in the nation... The schools right behind them are A&M, Florida, Ohio State, Arizona State, Texas, etc..

San Diego State has 36,000 students... Wake Forest has 5,000.

Cincinnati has 44,000 students... 2nd largest in Ohio.... Northwestern has 8,000 students.

Look at TCU.... They joined the league in 2013. Their 2010 recruiting class ranked 46th, 46th in 2009, 96th in 2008, 81st in 2007, etc...

2013: #30 recruiting class
2014: #50 recruiting class
2015: #34 recruiting class
2016: #20 recruiting class
2017: #41 recruiting class
2018: #28 recruiting class
2019: #29 recruiting class

They out-recruited A LOT of historical "P5 programs/BCS Programs" once they joined the Big 12. They went from recruiting classes near 100th, to in the top 30. This happened ONLY because they joined the Big 12. And higher rated players want to play in a league that has more prestige. Not necessarily the TEAM itself, but the league.

San Diego State, UCF, Cincy, and Boise State would experience the same thing. All in major media markets, all huge schools, all in desirable locations, all with proper facilities, etc. These 4 teams in particular would surpass Kansas, Kansas State, Iowa State, Indiana, Illinois, Wake Forest, Syracuse, and all these other programs that get to P5 for no reason other than someone made them P5 at some point quickly.

That's my take....

And again, Boren wanted us to grab some of those teams when a&m and Mizzou left. The other teams in the conference were against it. How is that OU's fault?