Fire Porter Moser

[WichitaSooner]

he is also a coach that has not had any accountability with shot selection all season long ..

Yea, you can't spend the first two months saying it's ok for Davis and JN to shoot threes at a clip below the Mendoza line, and then turn around and complain about shot selection in late February.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Yea, you can't spend the first two months saying it's ok for Davis and JN to shoot threes at a clip below the Mendoza line, and then turn around and complain about shot selection in late February.

Tae davis was 1-7.. looked like he was pouting to me all game when he was on the bench (maybe he was just frustrated generally with his contributions). But late in the game, I think we were tied or the game was a 1 pt game either way, and what does porter moron do? Goes iso-tae davis.... Tae dribbled around a little bit, prolly spilled his dribble bc he has below average handles.. got in a jam and hucked a prayer up at the rim. Wasn't a really viable shot, wasn't a good look. No pass, no movement possession. And he cemented his 1-8 performance.

Sort of dumbassery cluelessness you get from an incompetent like Porter Moron...

Could you imagine a good coach, like say Sampson, going iso-nate carter on a 1-7 performance (and not SR year Carter, who turned into a salty player), instead of setting something up for: Taj gray, Terrell Everett, Michael neal, or Kevin bookout?

In spirit of buddy, a better example would be Kruger going with lattin or Dante buford on a 1-7 instead of cousins, buddy, spangler, Woodard...

 

[WichitaSooner]

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article314804365.html

More discussion about names, the level of interest, and the advantage KSU has since they already fired Tang.

 

[hoopsaustin]

https://www.kansas.com/sports/college/big-12/kansas-state/article314804365.html

More discussion about names, the level of interest, and the advantage KSU has since they already fired Tang.

@TEvans4Three can you add Casey Alexander (Belmont) to your spreadsheet and run his #s.

Also... is it happening (from the KSU article): Chris Holtmann (DePaul)!! Go home Porter Moron.

 

[daqman]

@TEvans4Three can you add Casey Alexander (Belmont) to your spreadsheet and run his #s.

Also... is it happening (from the KSU article): Chris Holtmann (DePaul)!! Go home Porter Moron.

he's already on the spreadsheet

 

[TEvans4Three]

Just sharing this here, instead of the Kuol thread:



Just wanted to see what the rolling average was for minutes played per game of our bench bodies. Forsythe's trendline is heavily influenced by the first 6 averages, then he got bodied bc he had the yips or whatever.

Here is a 5-game rolling average as well, smoothing out the lines more, tells a more complete story:

 

[BoulderSooner]

the jones min drop and the yoyo with Atak .. is enough by it self to get pm fired ..

 

[mict085]

If we fire PM at the end of the season and he’s hired by DePaul, Loyola, or some other team, do we owe him anything?

 

[The_Banker]

If we fire PM at the end of the season and he’s hired by DePaul, Loyola, or some other team, do we owe him anything?

All depends how his contract reads.

 

[MJSooner]

Just sharing this here, instead of the Kuol thread:

View attachment 2943

Just wanted to see what the rolling average was for minutes played per game of our bench bodies. Forsythe's trendline is heavily influenced by the first 6 averages, then he got bodied bc he had the yips or whatever.

Here is a 5-game rolling average as well, smoothing out the lines more, tells a more complete story:

View attachment 2944

Yep, substitution patterns and late-game struggles, IMO, are the biggest reasons you can point to the coaching and it being time for a change.

On late-game struggles, one can say that "well, at least they're not quitting and in games late, mostly against competition". True, but we are not winning ANY of those games. A decent play call or calming the waters would pull out 2-4 of those. We aren't getting any because of play calls, and maybe his hyper anxiety is coming across.

But back to substitution patterns. Plenty to dissect in those awesome charts @TEvans4Three, but I'll critique from a higher-level view, not by individual minutes complaint- which there are plenty. But no way in game 20, game 25, should patterns be that irregular, unless there are foul issues, matchups, or injury. And if you go to a game, you can see how he has no plan or thought process. This past game, I watched him on numerous occasions overreact to an issue on the court, look at the assistants, pace up and down the bench, then come back and grab someone. Even worse, I noticed there were a number of times he would grab someone, send them to the edge of the scorer's table, then call them back. He would have someone go to check in, get a media TO, then someone different check in.

It's all chaos and no plan. And while his energy is great, I feel that contributes to the control issues, substitution chaos, and late-game collapses as players have no confidence.

And if he is that reactionary and inconsistent with substitution patterns, I gotta believe he's that way in other things that matter, too.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Yep, substitution patterns and late-game struggles, IMO, are the biggest reasons you can point to the coaching and it being time for a change.

On late-game struggles, one can say that "well, at least they're not quitting and in games late, mostly against competition". True, but we are not winning ANY of those games. A decent play call or calming the waters would pull out 2-4 of those. We aren't getting any because of play calls, and maybe his hyper anxiety is coming across.

But back to substitution patterns. Plenty to dissect in those awesome charts @TEvans4Three, but I'll critique from a higher-level view, not by individual minutes complaint- which there are plenty. But no way in game 20, game 25, should patterns be that irregular, unless there are foul issues, matchups, or injury. And if you go to a game, you can see how he has no plan or thought process. This past game, I watched him on numerous occasions overreact to an issue on the court, look at the assistants, pace up and down the bench, then come back and grab someone. Even worse, I noticed there were a number of times he would grab someone, send them to the edge of the scorer's table, then call them back. He would have someone go to check in, get a media TO, then someone different check in.

It's all chaos and no plan. And while his energy is great, I feel that contributes to the control issues, substitution chaos, and late-game collapses as players have no confidence.

And if he is that reactionary and inconsistent with substitution patterns, I gotta believe he's that way in other things that matter, too.

Simply, he dumb

 

[cowboysooner]

Just putting this out here to be first (I think), if Porter isn't the coach next year. I think Bill Murray's kid, who I think is the assistant in charge of Offense at UConn, should be hired as coach.

 

[WTSooner]

Just putting this out here to be first (I think), if Porter isn't the coach next year. I think Bill Murray's kid, who I think is the assistant in charge of Offense at UConn, should be hired as coach.

Decent resume, but I'm not sure we need to hire somebody with no head coaching experience. I think with where we are as a program and the league we're in, we need somebody that has accomplished a little more. There were times in our history where we could make a hire like that, I just don't think now is a good time.

 

[snydrosooner]

Just putting this out here to be first (I think), if Porter isn't the coach next year. I think Bill Murray's kid, who I think is the assistant in charge of Offense at UConn, should be hired as coach.

But bill does not do defense. Can his son?

 

[allday92]

Just putting this out here to be first (I think), if Porter isn't the coach next year. I think Bill Murray's kid, who I think is the assistant in charge of Offense at UConn, should be hired as coach.

Yes, please. It doesn't matter in my mind if he has head coaching experience or not. If he is truly a gifted assistant, he'll figure it out.

 

[TheMont]

Just sharing this here, instead of the Kuol thread:

View attachment 2943

Just wanted to see what the rolling average was for minutes played per game of our bench bodies. Forsythe's trendline is heavily influenced by the first 6 averages, then he got bodied bc he had the yips or whatever.

Here is a 5-game rolling average as well, smoothing out the lines more, tells a more complete story:

View attachment 2944

This is stunning, and you could even add Kai Rogers, who was randomly the first person off the bench against Tennessee after being in witness protection for months. I know Tennessee is a particularly lengthy team, so Porter probably felt the matchup favored Kai, but what is he supposed to think?? It's not like other SEC teams are lacking in length

 

[WichitaSooner]

Yep, substitution patterns and late-game struggles, IMO, are the biggest reasons you can point to the coaching and it being time for a change.

On late-game struggles, one can say that "well, at least they're not quitting and in games late, mostly against competition". True, but we are not winning ANY of those games. A decent play call or calming the waters would pull out 2-4 of those. We aren't getting any because of play calls, and maybe his hyper anxiety is coming across.

But back to substitution patterns. Plenty to dissect in those awesome charts @TEvans4Three, but I'll critique from a higher-level view, not by individual minutes complaint- which there are plenty. But no way in game 20, game 25, should patterns be that irregular, unless there are foul issues, matchups, or injury. And if you go to a game, you can see how he has no plan or thought process. This past game, I watched him on numerous occasions overreact to an issue on the court, look at the assistants, pace up and down the bench, then come back and grab someone. Even worse, I noticed there were a number of times he would grab someone, send them to the edge of the scorer's table, then call them back. He would have someone go to check in, get a media TO, then someone different check in.

It's all chaos and no plan. And while his energy is great, I feel that contributes to the control issues, substitution chaos, and late-game collapses as players have no confidence.

And if he is that reactionary and inconsistent with substitution patterns, I gotta believe he's that way in other things that matter, too.

Great point, and something I have seen more this year than in the past. Several weeks ago, he had Kai at the scorer's table in the first half leading into a TV timeout. When they returned from the timeout, he had put Wague back in for KE, and Kai was back on the bench. Everything about his coaching this year has screamed desperation. It also shows a lack of self-confidence. And you are absolutely right to note how he is just absolutely frantic on the sideline.

The phrase "process driven" has become overused in sports, but there is a reason coaches and organizations try to operate that way. Sports are really hard, especially at the college and pro level. Players are going to make mistakes. Coaches can't overreact to every single thing that happens. And they have to go into a game with a solid plan for what the substitution pattern will be, and what the overall approach to the game will be. Now, sure, it is fine (good, even) to adjust as needed. If a bench player comes in and nails a pair of threes, stick with him a bit longer, and if he keeps shooting well, give him more run later in the half/game. But the constant uncertainty on who will play, and when, has to be brutal on the players. It's like relief pitchers -- some dudes are capable of being ready and effective no matter when they are asked to pitch, but most guys are much more effective if they have a general idea of when they will be called on. I have to think it is the same with bench guys, and if you never know whether you will play zero minutes or 20, it has to be a constant mind f***.

 

[MJSooner]

Great point, and something I have seen more this year than in the past. Several weeks ago, he had Kai at the scorer's table in the first half leading into a TV timeout. When they returned from the timeout, he had put Wague back in for KE, and Kai was back on the bench. Everything about his coaching this year has screamed desperation. It also shows a lack of self-confidence. And you are absolutely right to note how he is just absolutely frantic on the sideline.

The phrase "process driven" has become overused in sports, but there is a reason coaches and organizations try to operate that way. Sports are really hard, especially at the college and pro level. Players are going to make mistakes. Coaches can't overreact to every single thing that happens. And they have to go into a game with a solid plan for what the substitution pattern will be, and what the overall approach to the game will be. Now, sure, it is fine (good, even) to adjust as needed. If a bench player comes in and nails a pair of threes, stick with him a bit longer, and if he keeps shooting well, give him more run later in the half/game. But the constant uncertainty on who will play, and when, has to be brutal on the players. It's like relief pitchers -- some dudes are capable of being ready and effective no matter when they are asked to pitch, but most guys are much more effective if they have a general idea of when they will be called on. I have to think it is the same with bench guys, and if you never know whether you will play zero minutes or 20, it has to be a constant mind f***.

I know exactly that instance and game you mentioned with Kai and Mo. I even commented on it to my buddy.

I have to think that chaos and frantic behavior impacts the team. It creates an edge (not in a good way) and a lack of 100% buy-in from the players because they're not sure. The byproduct is that they become anxious and unsure of themselves. IMO it's one reason they struggle at moments, especially at the end of game, timeouts, or when other teams make a run. Whenever pressure is put on, they're already sped up due to his energy and frantic mode, and they succumb to the moment.

And while I know LK probably wouldn't have been the coach for the NIL and portal era, as his recruiting style was already under pressure, I couldn't help sitting there Saturday on the difference in coaching style. Kruger, always calm and composed, unless he was delivering a message that needed to be delivered. ALWAYS had a great play out of a TO or when needed. And his substitution patterns were predictable. Knew who was coming out and when before the game, and almost always knew who was subbing in and for who.

Look, I know both styles work. Mark Few is more like LK, and Dan Hurley is more like Porter in his frantic energy. Even in the game Saturday night, Bucky was up and down all over the place, too. So I'm not saying a coach has to be laid back to win- Tom Izzo has a ton of wins and championships, and nobody complains about how he is on the sidelines. That energy and demeanor, which can be a positive attribute, can be contagious. And talking to Porter 1:1, it is, trust me.

But it can also be contagious in a very negative way when it crosses over from energy, enthusiasm, and fight to frantic anxiety and desperation.

And that is what we have in Porter Moser right now.

 

[Stikboy]

When I was doing my own research on Moser when it looked like OU was hiring him I found articles on how his quick leash seemingly affected players' confidence. So, Loyola writers saw and questioned it too.

 

[MJSooner]

When I was doing my own research on Moser when it looked like OU was hiring him I found articles on how his quick leash seemingly affected players' confidence. So, Loyola writers saw and questioned it too.

Wow, didn't know that. But not surprising.

And like I said in my last post, not saying that quick leash style doesn't work either. Any one that watched Kelvin on the sidelines at OU saw that first hand. How many times a game did he pull someone for a bad shot, scream at them on the bench for missing a rebound, or throw his jacket off for a quick turnover. He had a quick leash, too.

But the difference, like @WichitaSooner described, is that Kelvin did it as part of his expectations and accountability. He had a style/system/process that was expected, and if you crossed the line, he would pull you and/or let you know. He didn't pull guys for missing shots, but if he had a backup PG that dribbled up and jacked up a shot with 18 seconds left- in the game or shot clock- that wasn't the play called, that would have been a problem. The players knew the expectations, and he delivered the message consistently.

That is not how Moser manages the sideline.