Have delusions of grandeur always impacted NCAA sports this much?

[thebigabd]

In this context, when I say delusions of grandeur, I mean the apparrent obsession with a lot of fans and a lot of teams about whether or not their guys can play in the NBA.

Every recruit seems to be judged by whether or not they can play in the NBA, and then when someone shows up on campus they are seemingly evaluated against NBA players. Can they play in the NBA? Can the develop into an NBA player? What is missing from them playing in the NBA?

In my opinion, this is not only bad for NCAA basketball but also unfair to the players. Let's be clear on something... Since 1995, OU has sent the following players to the NBA:

• Blake Griffin
• Buddy Hield
• Eduardo Najera

I believe that's it... in 22 years. And while Najera and Hield were amazing for the program, they will both be role players in the NBA. Even the best of our All-American studs outside of Blake Griffin were role guys in the NBA.

It's bad for the sport because it implies a quality difference between NCAA and NBA basketball. That is inherent, the NBA is a professional league and NCAA is an amateur/collegiate sport. It's more important in NCAA basketball to beat your rival, show school spirit, make the NCAA Tournament, etc than it is to win a National Championship or send guys to the NBA. Look at what happened in Stillwater the other night. THAT is what college basketball is all about. Heated rivals, competitive game, crazy atmosphere, playing for your school, etc.

It's bad for the players because it's flat out not fair to them to be measured against NBA players, and fans are then put in a position to say "no they aren't GOOD ENOUGH to do that"... Well, guess what, practically none of them are. They were brought to their school to receive an education and represent their school and their fans in the college game. It's not a developmental ground for potential NBA players. We really shouldn't give a hoot if player X or Y can play in the NBA. We should only care if they can play at this level.

This is also a problem for NCAA Football, but, I don't have time to get into that this morning.

 

[MsProudSooner]

In this context, when I say delusions of grandeur, I mean the apparrent obsession with a lot of fans and a lot of teams about whether or not their guys can play in the NBA.

Every recruit seems to be judged by whether or not they can play in the NBA, and then when someone shows up on campus they are seemingly evaluated against NBA players. Can they play in the NBA? Can the develop into an NBA player? What is missing from them playing in the NBA?

In my opinion, this is not only bad for NCAA basketball but also unfair to the players. Let's be clear on something... Since 1995, OU has sent the following players to the NBA:

• Blake Griffin
• Buddy Hield
• Eduardo Najera

I believe that's it... in 22 years. And while Najera and Hield were amazing for the program, they will both be role players in the NBA. Even the best of our All-American studs outside of Blake Griffin were role guys in the NBA.

It's bad for the sport because it implies a quality difference between NCAA and NBA basketball. That is inherent, the NBA is a professional league and NCAA is an amateur/collegiate sport. It's more important in NCAA basketball to beat your rival, show school spirit, make the NCAA Tournament, etc than it is to win a National Championship or send guys to the NBA. Look at what happened in Stillwater the other night. THAT is what college basketball is all about. Heated rivals, competitive game, crazy atmosphere, playing for your school, etc.

It's bad for the players because it's flat out not fair to them to be measured against NBA players, and fans are then put in a position to say "no they aren't GOOD ENOUGH to do that"... Well, guess what, practically none of them are. They were brought to their school to receive an education and represent their school and their fans in the college game. It's not a developmental ground for potential NBA players. We really shouldn't give a hoot if player X or Y can play in the NBA. We should only care if they can play at this level.

This is also a problem for NCAA Football, but, I don't have time to get into that this morning.

I'm not one who measures our players by an 'NBA' standard. I think most people who do that are NBA fans and I'm not an NBA fan. If their dream is to play in the NBA, then by all means, they should do the best they can to make it to the NBA. But my measuring stick is are they good NCAA D1 players.

I would agree that it's not fair to measure all players by whether or not they can play in the NBA. We've had some wonderful players that never sniffed the NBA.

 

[WaymanFan]

It's not so much that I'm disagreeing with you, but want to present a clear picture for any OU prospect who might be looking at this board. First, there have been a few others who played briefly in the NBA during your 22 year timeframe (not sure why you picked 22 years) - Willie Warren and Taylor Griffin. Jeff Webster also played a year right around the beginning of your timeframe. Also, Najera was a "role player" for 11 long years...and it's way too soon to think that's all Buddy Hield will become.

Only about 15 or so colleges could win a computer-simulated game against OU in regards to the NBA two-deep below. Also, only Kansas and Texas from the Big XII could beat OU in this NBA category as well.

PG - Mookie Blaylock, Brent Price
SG - Anthony Bowie, Buddy Hield
SF - Gar Heard, Harvey Grant
PF - Blake Griffin, Wayman Tisdale
C - Alvin Adams, Clifford Ray

 

[Big Old Booger]

It's not so much that I'm disagreeing with you, but want to present a clear picture for any OU prospect who might be looking at this board. First, there have been a few others who played briefly in the NBA during your 22 year timeframe (not sure why you picked 22 years) - Willie Warren and Taylor Griffin. Jeff Webster also played a year right around the beginning of your timeframe. Also, Najera was a "role player" for 11 long years...and it's way too soon to think that's all Buddy Hield will become.

Only about 15 or so colleges could win a computer-simulated game against OU in regards to the NBA two-deep below. Also, only Kansas and Texas from the Big XII could beat OU in this NBA category as well.

PG - Mookie Blaylock, Brent Price
SG - Anthony Bowie, Buddy Hield
SF - Gar Heard, Harvey Grant
PF - Blake Griffin, Wayman Tisdale
C - Alvin Adams, Clifford Ray

Agree, good post.

Corey Brewer would have played, I believe, if not for getting drafted right before the strike. He was good enough to play in the NBA. Ryan Minor would have been a first round draft choice had he left after his junior year.

I'm guessing this thread is directed partially at me for asking if Odomes can play in the NBA. That's not unfair to him for me, a poster on OUHoops.com, to ask that question. He doesn't know who I am and probably doesn't know about this message board (apologies to OUHoops). This is a place where fans can discuss all things OU basketball. I don't need to provide information why I started that thread, because it's all there. It was just something for discussion. I didn't mention McNeace, Lattin, McGusty, Freeman, Buford, etc., but all of them have a chance to play at the next level. For most of them, it's not likely but you never know. I don't think anyone saw Buddy Hield as a lottery pick after his first season of NCAA basketball. Any player who is on a scholarship at a BCS level program has a chance to play in the NBA if things fall into place for them. To me, that's not an unfair question to ask when it's simply for discussion sake. I would say calling a player as one who should be "processed" is far more unfair to a player.

 

[coolm]

Let's look at this from another turn ... did you watch the ridiculous introductions for the NBA All-Star game last night?

They treat NBA players like they are some kind of deities. No wonder they get delusions.

 

[Price is Right]

Cousins was drafted last season

 

[sperry]

Whether a guy can play in the NBA is hugely relevant, because if they are good enough to play in the NBA they can leave early.

Also, not sure what these delusions of grandeur are. Everyone on this board was excited about the signing of Jordan Woodard, despite the fact that everyone knew from day 1 that he had very little shot at being an NBA player.

 

[thebigabd]

I'm guessing this thread is directed partially at me for asking if Odomes can play in the NBA.

Not about you at all, I fall down that hole sometimes too... Longar Longar, Austin Johnson, several others. The motivation for the thread actually came from a conversation with someone else off the board about Jawun Evans.

We have the Odomes thread but he meets some of the initial requirements for the NBA... He's a tall 6'6'' guard, and he's a very good athlete. That Odomes thread is no different than lots of other threads about OU (or other) players. I just question whether it's fair to them because in the past 20 something years just a couple of players have made it that high...

Hard to explain... but instead of being focused on how they fit in with their position in the Big 12, on the team, in the state, etc, fans/media seem to be more focused about how their games can translate in a professional league. Baker Mayfield, Rashard Odomes, Jawun Evans, etc. Fan bases across the country are always discussing this about the players they support.

I don't need to provide information why I started that thread, because it's all there. It was just something for discussion. I didn't mention McNeace, Lattin, McGusty, Freeman, Buford, etc., but all of them have a chance to play at the next level. For most of them, it's not likely but you never know. I don't think anyone saw Buddy Hield as a lottery pick after his first season of NCAA basketball. Any player who is on a scholarship at a BCS level program has a chance to play in the NBA if things fall into place for them. To me, that's not an unfair question to ask when it's simply for discussion sake. I would say calling a player as one who should be "processed" is far more unfair to a player.

That's fair... I'd be more hurt if I was player reading about fans talking about how I don't deserve my scholarship than them theorizing if I can play in the NBA. Totally valid, and I apologize for the comment.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Not about you at all, I fall down that hole sometimes too... Longar Longar, Austin Johnson, several others. The motivation for the thread actually came from a conversation with someone else off the board about Jawun Evans.

We have the Odomes thread but he meets some of the initial requirements for the NBA... He's a tall 6'6'' guard, and he's a very good athlete. That Odomes thread is no different than lots of other threads about OU (or other) players. I just question whether it's fair to them because in the past 20 something years just a couple of players have made it that high...

Hard to explain... but instead of being focused on how they fit in with their position in the Big 12, on the team, in the state, etc, fans/media seem to be more focused about how their games can translate in a professional league. Baker Mayfield, Rashard Odomes, Jawun Evans, etc. Fan bases across the country are always discussing this about the players they support.



That's fair... I'd be more hurt if I was player reading about fans talking about how I don't deserve my scholarship than them theorizing if I can play in the NBA. Totally valid, and I apologize for the comment.

Eh, Abd, you don't need to apologize to me. It's all good.

 

[p230]

I may be wrong but I think many don't realize how thin a line there is between say most NBA guards. There are ones who are obviously better but once you get past that first tier what separates the guys that make it and the ones that don't can be something a simple as hurting an ankle and them bringing someone else up and forgetting about you or them needing to make room on the roster because of a big contract coming in. Look at Buddy getting traded...maybe he flourishes and maybe he gets stuck in a log jam of guards. That in no way means he is not just as talented as he was yesterday. Lots of luck involved in sticking in the league for several years.

 

[chuckb]

I agree. This is a problem. I don't blame the players. Why wouldn't they want the opportunity to play a game they love and become wealthy and famous doing it? I blame fans.

I love college basketball. I love it and watch and lot of it even when my team stinks which, thankfully, happens pretty infrequently. I really couldn't care less whether or not a player will make for a good NBA player most of the time. But, let's be honest, the more NBA quality players we have, the better our team probably is. It's not always true, but odds are if we have more players who can/will play in the NBA, the better we'll be.

We don't want Trae Young to go to the NBA after his freshman year but, in all honesty, we probably don't want him to play 4 year either because that probably means he wasn't as good as we hoped.

 

[Big Old Booger]

I agree. This is a problem. I don't blame the players. Why wouldn't they want the opportunity to play a game they love and become wealthy and famous doing it? I blame fans.

I love college basketball. I love it and watch and lot of it even when my team stinks which, thankfully, happens pretty infrequently. I really couldn't care less whether or not a player will make for a good NBA player most of the time. But, let's be honest, the more NBA quality players we have, the better our team probably is. It's not always true, but odds are if we have more players who can/will play in the NBA, the better we'll be.

We don't want Trae Young to go to the NBA after his freshman year but, in all honesty, we probably don't want him to play 4 year either because that probably means he wasn't as good as we hoped.

I'm not really an NBA fan either except during playoffs. I just like to see more OU players make it in the NBA to help the program have a better image. It's not a big deal at the end of the day, Look at the 02 team, not a single NBA player and they were a very good team. I would rather OU win the big 12 and NC than to have 5 players from one team make the NBA, but the more players we get into the NBA the better prospects we can attract.

 

[paboomersooner]

I'm not a big NBA fan either but I loosely keep track of OU guys who stick in the NBA. I keep track, and forecast, for that matter, in my head for a couple of reasons.

First, its a pride thing for me. I did not go to OU. I haven't even been to Oklahoma but I have been an OU fan since the early '80's. I compare OU's professional success to other schools in multiple sports, football and basketball primarily.

Sending players onto the professional level is something many athletes look at today whether their evaluation of themselves is honest or not. Putting people in "the league" casts a large shadow on the recruiting scene.

Finally, and maybe most important, I think OU fans on this board and others are smart enough to know that, "It's not about the x's and the o's, it's about the Jimmy's and the Joe's", (who said this?). Coaching in college basketball is more important than the NBA but I believe if one would research past NCAA champions, most of those teams have at least one pro on the roster. Most probably have multiple. I believe this the consensus thought of most of college b-ball pundits. I know I have heard Bilas say this multiple times.

 

[BoulderSooner]

In my opinion, this is not only bad for NCAA basketball but also unfair to the players. Let's be clear on something... Since 1995, OU has sent the following players to the NBA:

• Blake Griffin
• Buddy Hield
• Eduardo Najera

QUOTE]

you make some ok points ... but at least get things correct ...

we also sent Taylor Griffin and Willie Warren to the NBA ..

 

[CMSOONER]

Since 1995 the following players have been select in the NBA draft. Albiet they didn't all stick or make the cut.

1996 Ryan Minor
1997 Nate Erdmann
2000 Eduardo Nájera
2009 Blake Griffin
2009 Taylor Griffin
2013 Romero Osby
2016 Buddy Hield
2016 Isaiah Cousins

 

[thebigabd]

Since 1995 the following players have been select in the NBA draft. Albiet they didn't all stick or make the cut.

1996 Ryan Minor
1997 Nate Erdmann
2000 Eduardo Nájera
2009 Blake Griffin
2009 Taylor Griffin
2013 Romero Osby
2016 Buddy Hield
2016 Isaiah Cousins

Ok, so 3 OU players in 22 years became actual NBA players.

 

[Big Old Booger]

Since 1995 the following players have been select in the NBA draft. Albiet they didn't all stick or make the cut.

1996 Ryan Minor
1997 Nate Erdmann
2000 Eduardo Nájera
2009 Blake Griffin
2009 Taylor Griffin
2013 Romero Osby
2016 Buddy Hield
2016 Isaiah Cousins

Corey Brewer was drafted too.

 

[TheGimper]

Ok, so 3 OU players in 22 years became actual NBA players.

He forgot Willie Warren who spent sometime in the NBA. Also, Taylor Griffin had a few brief stints on an NBA roster. So the number is almost double 3.

 

[WTSooner]

lol at including Taylor and Willie.

That's some little brother stuff right there.

We've sent three.

 

[TheGimper]

lol at including Taylor and Willie.

That's some little brother stuff right there.

We've sent three.

Naw, we've sent 5. Only 3 made a career out of it. Reaching the NBA even in the limited capacity of Warren and Taylor is an incredible feat. No reason to disrespect two Sooners like that.

Belittling others accomplishments is more little brother like.