Honest assessment of talent on roster

[thebigabd]

Kelvin always said you needed 3 good players, and then people filling roles around those 3 good players.

I think with McGusty and Doolittle represent "good" players that he is referring to. Not that these other guys aren't good basketball players, but you don't build around them.

Once you have your 3 good players, you need a couple of shooters, a couple of slashers, some rebounders, etc. That is the general makeup of a good, solid basketball team. Are you going to win a national championship? Only if you catch a few All-Americans like Hollis Price, Ace Mcghee, Blake Griffin, Buddy Hield, etc which OU tends to nab every so often. Then you have a CHANCE at it.

Winning the Big 12 is a more attainable goal. But back to the team.

Good Players
Kameron McGusty (6'5'' 195 guard - FRESHMAN)
Kristian Doolittle (6'7'' 240 forward - FRESHMAN)

High Level Shooters
None

High Level Slashers
Rashard Odomes--- Odomes is 0-4 on the season from 3. He is the very definition of a slasher

High Level Rebounders
None

Reliable point guard
None

Depth Players
Christian James
Darrion Strong-Moore
Khadeem Lattin
Dante Buford
Matt Freeman

It's obvious what this team needs then... a reliable point guard, a high level rebounder, and a high level shooter. It's missing several ingredients in the makeup of your typical good team, especially like the ones OU has had in the past.

James, Lattin, Buford, Freeman could improve and move into these needed categories, but right now they are depth guys.

They need to address point guard, shooting, and rebounding in the next class. He doesn't need to go the Capel route and try to take the best player available, he needs to fill out the team. OU doesn't recruit enough SUPER talent like Kentucky to just take the best player available. OU needs to fill out a team.

Take the Sampson final four team for example:

Good Players
Ace Mcghee
Hollis Price
Ebie Ere

High Level Shooters
Quannas White
Hollis Price
Ebi Ere

High Level Slashers
Jason Detrick
Quannas White

High Level Rebounders
Ace Mcghee
Jabarhi Brown

Reliable point guard
Quannas White

Overall Hustle Guy
Daryan Selvy

That team had all the pieces, experience, etc. Not gonna have that all the time, but the basic makeup is there.

 

[WTSooner]

The problem is that Lattin, Buford, and James were supposed to be more than just "depth". And I don't know what to make of that yet.

If Sampson was coaching this team, they'd be better. Not necessarily b/c Sampson is the better coach, but b/c he would do three things. Get them playing tougher defense. Get them running actual sets/plays on offense. And limit the number of shots that are taken by our non-top 3-4 players.

WAY too many guys looking to shoot jumpers the second they are partially open. Points to a lack of "knowing your role".

I agree that we have a few guys that we probably over estimated in years past, that simply aren't as good as we were hoping. But we have more talent than the product we are putting on the floor. We have more talent than TT. I refuse to believe we don't.
But they play better as a team. That's the biggest problem in my eyes.

 

[OUsky]

I think our main problem is our bench. Every game they give up 10-0 runs or close. Seems like every year we think we will have more depth under LK, but the same issue arises. Not sure what to think about this.

 

[sheepdogs1]

I think our main problem is our bench. Every game they give up 10-0 runs or close. Seems like every year we think we will have more depth under LK, but the same issue arises. Not sure what to think about this.

At least some of this is due to the funk that James finds himself in. He was at one time a starter, but now McGusty is getting the starting nod, so now you have a guy who was getting 30 minutes a game now getting 10-15 minutes.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Not so high on Freeman right now. Granted he's a Fr so maybe in a yr or 2 he'll be the "sharp shooter" we need from the outside. hitting .362 but prob missed his last 7 or 8 which would have him closer to 50%.

I honestly like Shepard. Again, another true Fr but I believe the last game he played we outscored the opp. He's getting better.

Odomes, true slasher...but he better have better FT %..65, he hits 75 we might have a few more wins.

Doolittle - .423 from 3, he needs to shoot more.

 

[inoref]

Kelvin always said you needed 3 good players, and then people filling roles around those 3 good players.

I think with McGusty and Doolittle represent "good" players that he is referring to. Not that these other guys aren't good basketball players, but you don't build around them.

Once you have your 3 good players, you need a couple of shooters, a couple of slashers, some rebounders, etc. That is the general makeup of a good, solid basketball team. Are you going to win a national championship? Only if you catch a few All-Americans like Hollis Price, Ace Mcghee, Blake Griffin, Buddy Hield, etc which OU tends to nab every so often. Then you have a CHANCE at it.

Winning the Big 12 is a more attainable goal. But back to the team.

Good Players
Kameron McGusty (6'5'' 195 guard - FRESHMAN)
Kristian Doolittle (6'7'' 240 forward - FRESHMAN)

High Level Shooters
None

High Level Slashers
Rashard Odomes--- Odomes is 0-4 on the season from 3. He is the very definition of a slasher

High Level Rebounders
None

Reliable point guard
None

Depth Players
Christian James
Darrion Strong-Moore
Khadeem Lattin
Dante Buford
Matt Freeman

It's obvious what this team needs then... a reliable point guard, a high level rebounder, and a high level shooter. It's missing several ingredients in the makeup of your typical good team, especially like the ones OU has had in the past.

James, Lattin, Buford, Freeman could improve and move into these needed categories, but right now they are depth guys.

They need to address point guard, shooting, and rebounding in the next class. He doesn't need to go the Capel route and try to take the best player available, he needs to fill out the team. OU doesn't recruit enough SUPER talent like Kentucky to just take the best player available. OU needs to fill out a team.

Take the Sampson final four team for example:

Good Players
Ace Mcghee
Hollis Price
Ebie Ere

High Level Shooters
Quannas White
Hollis Price
Ebi Ere

High Level Slashers
Jason Detrick
Quannas White

High Level Rebounders
Ace Mcghee
Jabarhi Brown

Reliable point guard
Quannas White

Overall Hustle Guy
Daryan Selvy

That team had all the pieces, experience, etc. Not gonna have that all the time, but the basic makeup is there.

true that team was loaded other than the coach

 

[usedtobe1]

Does Kruger ever "process" players? Encourage them to transfer.... or be recruited over. We will have 3 freshmen (assuming a PG), 4 sophomores, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors on next year's roster.

It would be nice to have more than 2 scholarships for 2017-2018.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Does Kruger ever "process" players? Encourage them to transfer.... or be recruited over. We will have 3 freshmen (assuming a PG), 4 sophomores, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors on next year's roster.

It would be nice to have more than 2 scholarships for 2017-2018.

buford

 

[thebigabd]

The problem is that Lattin, Buford, and James were supposed to be more than just "depth". And I don't know what to make of that yet.

Over estimated them, or they are in year long funks. Not everyone on the team is going to be that great. if Lattin, Buford, James, McGusty, Doolittle, etc all met fans expectations OU would be undefeated.

Odomes, true slasher...but he better have better FT %..65, he hits 75 we might have a few more wins.

Odomes needs to shoot 1,000 free throws per day all off-season... If he gets up to 85% he can make that jump to "good player", instead of just a slasher/role player. It's not far fetched for him.

Doolittle - .423 from 3, he needs to shoot more.

He's the goods, no doubt. He's the new foundation of the program, along with Mcgusty.

Let's say, just for the sake of debate, they went juco to fill these gaps immediately. Let's take a look at some area juco transfers.

PG: Daryl Macon (Arkansas) - Came in and is averaging 13 points, 3 assists, and shooting 38% from 3 in first year out of juco for Arkansas
SG: Kameron McGusty
SF: Rashard Odomes
PF: Kristian Doolittle
PF: Vladimir Brodziansky (TCU) --- TCU went out and got a 6'11'' 225 forward from juco, averaging 14/6 for them. These guys are out there. Only plays 23 minutes a game and puts up these numbers.

High Level Shooter:
Rob Gray (Houston Cougars via Howard Juco).... Classic Kelvin Sampson juco recruit. High level shooter averaging 20 points per game for Sampson at Houston.

Rebounder:
Devin Davis (Houston Cougars via Odessa Juco)... 6'7'' 230 forward averaging 10 points and 7 rebounds in his first year for Sampson. Another typical Sampson kinda guy.

Fill out next years roster with juco guys like this and OU is back in business. They are out there. How do I know, because these guys are currently first year jucos at Arkansas, TCU, Houston, etc. They are everywhere.

Just go get them, pair them with McGusty, Doolittle, Odomes, and the other guys and you are cooking with peanut oil.

 

[AdaSooner]

At least some of this is due to the funk that James finds himself in. He was at one time a starter, but now McGusty is getting the starting nod, so now you have a guy who was getting 30 minutes a game now getting 10-15 minutes.

Spot on assessment of Christian James. He would have been on bigabd's list as a high level shooter after the first ten games and at the end of last season. Odomes might be too if he was not the team's designated slasher. He averaged just under 50% from three in high school. I'm convinced Odomes is doing exactly what Lon wants him to do. If that was not the case, why does he continue to start or get starter minutes?

Except for McGusty, Woodard and Doolittle, when he's heathy, the players on this team are too one dimensional. Rashard will not take the perimeter shots he perfectly capable of making. The scouting report says he will put the ball on the floor and attempt to penetrate with the dribble drive. James is not much of a threat to score from deep anymore, so play off of him a little and he will gladly pass the ball to a teammate. Lattin wants to take shots from eight to twelve feet out. Don't worry about defending a post move or a drive to the hole. That's not something he does well. McNeace's only post move is a jump hook inside eight feet. Don't give Buford wide open shots from three.

I could go on, but you get the idea. This OU team is so predictable now, a novice coach could draw up a defensive game plan. The fact that McGusty and Woodard are the only players on this team who present a challenge to our opponents is, at least to some degree, on Lon Kruger and his assistants.

Having said all of that, this team was in a position to win every loss this season except two. While it's true every player is not starter material, I don't buy the idea that the gap in talent can't be overcome by plugging a minor hole or two. The key is signing a capable point guard in the late period. I don't rule out the possibility that Shep and Strong might improve enough to do the job. I'm just not willing to bet the farm on it.

 

[thebigabd]

Spot on assessment of Christian James. He would have been on bigabd's list as a high level shooter after the first ten games and at the end of last season. Odomes might be too if he was not the team's designated slasher. He averaged just under 50% from three in high school. I'm convinced Odomes is doing exactly what Lon wants him to do. If that was not the case, why does he continue to start or get starter minutes?

Except for McGusty, Woodard and Doolittle, when he's heathy, the players on this team are too one dimensional. Rashard will not take the perimeter shots he perfectly capable of making. The scouting report says he will put the ball on the floor and attempt to penetrate with the dribble drive. James is not much of a threat to score from deep anymore, so play off of him a little and he will gladly pass the ball to a teammate. Lattin wants to take shots from eight to twelve feet out. Don't worry about defending a post move or a drive to the hole. That's not something he does well. McNeace's only post move is a jump hook inside eight feet. Don't give Buford wide open shots from three.

I could go on, but you get the idea. This OU team is so predictable now, a novice coach could draw up a defensive game plan. The fact that McGusty and Woodard are the only players on this team who present a challenge to our opponents is, at least to some degree, on Lon Kruger and his assistants.

Having said all of that, this team was in a position to win every loss this season except two. While it's true every player is not starter material, I don't buy the idea that the gap in talent can't be overcome by plugging a minor hole or two. The key is signing a capable point guard in the late period. I don't rule out the possibility that Shep and Strong might improve enough to do the job. I'm just not willing to bet the farm on it.

Yes, gaps in talent. That is what I am saying... Need a solid point guard, need a shooter, need another rebounder. Go get them.

They don't have to be super flashy, 5 star guys. You can get the better jucos and these types of role guys if you go after them first instead of your last resort.

Go get a Daryl Macon, Rob Gray, Vlad Brodziansky and call it a day.

 

[cvangild]

I still truly believe this team will be a top tier team in the Big 12 next season if it can add Trae Young.

With Trae Young and McGusty, that would give us the best backcourt in the Big 12....and one of the top 10 in the country! Young would elevate the play of all the players around him and would make Odomes a huge weapon and would take a lot of the pressure off of James..which would allow him to fall back into the role he had at the end of the season last year...which is provide instant offense off the bench.


Young is that good. I think we would win 22+ games next year with him...and the year after, we would be back in the fold of possibly making a deep run in the tourney. We aren't as far off as you might think. 8 of our losses have been by 5 or fewer points. With some luck, we could easily have 15 wins...but there is a very fine line between the in-house and out-house.

Trae would push us over that line!!!

 

[Stikboy]

Good thread. Kind of an honest and uncomfortable analysis of where we are. I, too, have been wondering if anyone will be "processed" after this year, and if Lon is looking to take more than just one more. I think Lon has processed guys in the past. Booker.. Who was the guy who played PG his first year who ended up at Prairie View? There are probably others. I don't think it's as heartless as other teams, I really think Lon and staff try to help them land on their feet. But if in Lon's mind if OU has guys on the roster who he can see just aren't going to get it done, hey, that's bigtime college hoops. And it usually ends up also benefitting the "processed" guy too anyway.

 

[thebigabd]

To illustrate... Arkansas lost 4-5 seniors, had some gaps to fill, and Mike Anderson went out and got Daryl Macon, Jaylen Barford, and Arlando Cook out of juco for the year.

They are getting 13 ppg out of Macon, 12 ppg out of Barford, and 4 ppg out of Cook.

Arkansas is now 17-6, and got 30 ppg right out of the gate from a few juco guys.

They have 3 high school guys coming in next year that are pretty good, but these juco's filled a talent/experience for them this year and they are having a solid season and will contribute to what could be a better Arkansas team next year.

If they had filled those spots with true freshman, they probably wouldn't be 17-6 right now. They'd be having an OU kinda season, because Arkansas doesn't recruit ENOUGH high profile talent to overcome major turnover. Neither does Oklahoma.

 

[oudna]

Ere was definitely not a "high level shooter". By any definition.

 

[oudna]

You include guys like Buford and Strong as "depth" guys but not McNease?

I totally disagree with that assessment.

 

[oudna]

Does Kruger ever "process" players? Encourage them to transfer.... or be recruited over. We will have 3 freshmen (assuming a PG), 4 sophomores, 4 juniors, and 2 seniors on next year's roster.

It would be nice to have more than 2 scholarships for 2017-2018.

Yes, Frank Booker.

 

[oudna]

Odomes is Daryan Selvey. If he's a starter, we're inherently limited.

 

[oudna]

Ere was definitely not a "high level shooter". By any definition.

Cripes! 31% career on 3FGs. Even lower than imagined.

Good FTs though.

 

[tooney]

I didn't get to watch the TT game; couldn't get it where I was this weekend.

I see things a little differently from most on here.

Woodard. Not sure what was wrong with him to miss the games he did. But I don't think he's over it or something else is wrong. He's not "right". But a good player that is an essential piece of this team. When he's right, we're a lot better.

McGusty. Really coming on. Needs to learn what he can and can't do against D1 competition. Huge upside.

Doolittle. Reminds me some of Choo Kennedy. Can hit the three and can do the dirty work down low. Pretty decent free throw percentage. Great building block.

Odomes. Not great at anything yet. Will never be a significant contributor until he learns to shoot the mid-range jumper. Or learns to shoot the three better. Needs to practice shooting mid-range jumpers and free throws. Pick a spot on the floor 10 feet from the goal. Learn to hit it consistently. Move to another spot.

Lattin. Good shot blocker. Needs to learn to move his feet on defense. Learn how to deny the post the basketball; he ain't going to block every shot. And some offensive moves. Practice on blocking out on defense and on the free throws. He has a good ten foot shot; just needs to find a way to get to the goal once in a while.

James. Really hopes he gets his game back together over the break this summer. Seems like he forces some of the shots he takes when he's in the game. I believe he likes that three from the left wing. He should practice it in the gym until he can hit it blindfolded. Then when it's game time and he has that shot....let it fly. Shoot the shot you're comfortable with, not the fake, double fake, and then let it fly.

Freeman. I'm not ready to give up on him. I don't think he's doing that much worse than some of the others. He does possess a rare combination of height and shooting ability. He just needs to find his shot again. But I'm not sure he will find it with the limited minutes he plays. He does seem to understand the game and doesn't make a lot of bone-headed plays. I think he will be better next year.


I think experience will help some of them on defense. Seems they get mixed up on who's guarding who....or who stays with who on the switches. Just smarter basketball would have made the difference in a few of the losses.

JMO. Kind of like noses.