Hornbeak to Monmouth

[WTSooner]

That move doesn't make any sense.

Why? Not everybody is motivated by playing on the best possible team. OU football loses out on recruits to OSU, Baylor, Arizona, schools like that all the time. OU is clearly a better program than all those schools. I fully understand a kid that simply doesn't want to come off the bench as the backup pg, when he believes he is good enough to be a starting sg. I think Hornbeak thought he'd have better transfer options, but the timing and luck of it all didn't seem to work out. But I see no reason to question the kid.

 

[campbest]

I'm sure they will. Still doesn't seem worth it, but whatever.

No they won't.

 

[campbest]

Why? Not everybody is motivated by playing on the best possible team. OU football loses out on recruits to OSU, Baylor, Arizona, schools like that all the time. OU is clearly a better program than all those schools. I fully understand a kid that simply doesn't want to come off the bench as the backup pg, when he believes he is good enough to be a starting sg. I think Hornbeak thought he'd have better transfer options, but the timing and luck of it all didn't seem to work out. But I see no reason to question the kid.

Nothing to do with timing and luck, everything to do with him as a player. Don't fault the move if he just wants playing time, but the lack of opportunities is a reflection of him, not the situation.

 

[garyeb2]

Nothing to do with timing and luck, everything to do with him as a player. Don't fault the move if he just wants playing time, but the lack of opportunities is a reflection of him, not the situation.

Why are you grinding so hard on Hornbeak? He did solid journeyman's work while he was here. From day one, it was obvious, that players like Buddy and Cousins had higher ceilings than him. And they eventually passed him.

It is just as obvious that Woodard also had the higher ceiling. But, when Kruger made the decision to start Woodard, there was scant practice gym on the court evidence Woodard was the better player. While I do think that Jelon would have been better served by playing it out at OU, I certainly understand why he got tight jawed over the deal.

It seems that you may be discounting his injury. He was on a bad foot as far back as the European trip and it finally blew out early in the season.

I find no reason to doubt that Jelon would have been a nice player for us if he had stayed. And I can find no reason to think that he wouldn't be a really nice player for his new team and in that league.

I sense a need for you to enlighten me.

 

[vbdad]

There wasn't much of a chance he was going to be able to be here next year. It is unfortunate because he is a solid player. Best of luck to him.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

There wasn't much of a chance he was going to be able to be here next year.

why?

 

[WTSooner]

Nothing to do with timing and luck, everything to do with him as a player. Don't fault the move if he just wants playing time, but the lack of opportunities is a reflection of him, not the situation.

Nonsense. Even if you don't think Hornbeak is anything special, he is still good enough to end up at a MUCH better spot than Monmouth. I don't think that is even arguable.

 

[DenverSooner]

Nonsense. Even if you don't think Hornbeak is anything special, he is still good enough to end up at a MUCH better spot than Monmouth. I don't think that is even arguable.

Exactly. The kid started many games in the Big XII as a freshman. He was a major contributor in the Big XII as a sophomore. Hornbeak has talent. He isn't a Blake Griffin talent but virtually no one is.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

He was a major contributor in the Big XII as a sophomore. Hornbeak has talent. He isn't a Blake Griffin talent but virtually no one is.

I would debate that he was a major contributor.

There is A LOT of room between Blake Griffin and Hornbeak

He may surprise me but I doubt he is the leading scorer on his team

 

[campbest]

Why are you grinding so hard on Hornbeak? He did solid journeyman's work while he was here. From day one, it was obvious, that players like Buddy and Cousins had higher ceilings than him. And they eventually passed him.

It is just as obvious that Woodard also had the higher ceiling. But, when Kruger made the decision to start Woodard, there was scant practice gym on the court evidence Woodard was the better player. While I do think that Jelon would have been better served by playing it out at OU, I certainly understand why he got tight jawed over the deal.

It seems that you may be discounting his injury. He was on a bad foot as far back as the European trip and it finally blew out early in the season.

I find no reason to doubt that Jelon would have been a nice player for us if he had stayed. And I can find no reason to think that he wouldn't be a really nice player for his new team and in that league.

I sense a need for you to enlighten me.

It's not a knock on Jelon at all, too often people feel that if someone plays at a Big XII school they will automatically dominate at a lower level...and some people on here have indicated that.

There are hundreds and hundreds of Jelon Hornbeak's in college basketball...not just in D1, but the guard play at the best D2 schools is very very good. Personally, I don't think Jelon has the ability (nor size) to be a #1 option at the D1 level...whether it's in the MEAC or Big XII. But I am glad he found a place where he wants to play, that's the most important.

 

[BanjoCharley]

There is A LOT of room between Blake Griffin and Hornbeak

Which OU player does not have a lot of room twist himself and Blake?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Which OU player does not have a lot of room twist himself and Blake?

that's my point.

Saying that Hornbeak is talented but no Blake Griffin doesn't really tell anybody much

 

[colston15]

Other schools wanted Je'Lon, Colorado State and Stephen F. Austin included, but I think he wanted a big change of scenery.

He got it. I think he'll do well.

 

[garyeb2]

It's not a knock on Jelon at all, too often people feel that if someone plays at a Big XII school they will automatically dominate at a lower level...and some people on here have indicated that.

There are hundreds and hundreds of Jelon Hornbeak's in college basketball...not just in D1, but the guard play at the best D2 schools is very very good. Personally, I don't think Jelon has the ability (nor size) to be a #1 option at the D1 level...whether it's in the MEAC or Big XII. But I am glad he found a place where he wants to play, that's the most important.

You are usually right on your posted positions. But, this one just doesn't compute with me. There has to be more than 3 levels of guards. Difference makers, hundreds just alike, and no good just doesn't cover the spectrum. There is a difference between high major and low major talent. That difference usually manifest itself as speed. Maybe athleticism, but, that is harder to quantify. Jelon is at no disadvantage in either case.

It has probably been around 14/15 years ago. My youngest daughter was a cheerleader at Norman High and she thought it was important that her dad was in attendance for her. I watched a lot of HS football and basketball during that time.

It has been too long and I don't remember the kids name. NHS had an outstanding player and I thought the kid was a must have for OU. I thought Kelvin was crazy for not offering the kid. He ended up with a mid major offer and off he went. Two years later his team shows up on OU's schedule as a non conference home opponent.

I was sitting right there smug in my belief that the kid would show Kelvin that he had made a mistake by passing on the home town talent. I learned something that evening that Kelvin knew 2 yrs. earlier. While being a fine player in the league he was playing, He was a step too slow to play at OU.

 

[MercedeSooner]

I thought you were kidding before about Monmouth coach talk.

 

[campbest]

You are usually right on your posted positions. But, this one just doesn't compute with me. There has to be more than 3 levels of guards. Difference makers, hundreds just alike, and no good just doesn't cover the spectrum. There is a difference between high major and low major talent. That difference usually manifest itself as speed. Maybe athleticism, but, that is harder to quantify. Jelon is at no disadvantage in either case.

It has been too long and I don't remember the kids name. NHS had an outstanding player and I thought the kid was a must have for OU. I thought Kelvin was crazy for not offering the kid. He ended up with a mid major offer and off he went. Two years later his team shows up on OU's schedule as a non conference home opponent.

I was sitting right there smug in my belief that the kid would show Kelvin that he had made a mistake by passing on the home town talent. I learned something that evening that Kelvin knew 2 yrs. earlier. While being a fine player in the league he was playing, He was a step too slow to play at OU.

There is definitely a difference, but when you're talking a reserve guard at the Big XII level...which is essentially what Jelon has become (I know he has been injured)...there are many starters at the mid-major and low-major level who can fulfill that position. Been around quite a few DII teams and I would argue often the guard play is better at that level than low major DI.

I just don't think he will have the success at Monmouth others do, but I hope he does. Often people evaluate a transfer on where he came from instead of who he is as a player, and that imo, is incorrect.

 

[usedtobe1]

There has to be more than 3 levels of guards. There is a difference between high major and low major talent. That difference usually manifest itself as speed. Maybe athleticism, but, that is harder to quantify. Jelon is at no disadvantage in either case.

Case example: Carl Blair. He did a good job at New Orleans, but just wasn't fast/quick/athletic enough to play PG at OU in the Big 12. He then moved on to Prairie View and got a lot more playing time.

 

[garyeb2]

There is definitely a difference, but when you're talking a reserve guard at the Big XII level...which is essentially what Jelon has become (I know he has been injured)...there are many starters at the mid-major and low-major level who can fulfill that position. Been around quite a few DII teams and I would argue often the guard play is better at that level than low major DI.

I just don't think he will have the success at Monmouth others do, but I hope he does. Often people evaluate a transfer on where he came from instead of who he is as a player, and that imo, is incorrect.

I can agree with your last statement for these reasons. Blair for example. He wasn't a good player at OU and when he got to Panhandle A&M he wasn't any better than the other guards at that level. Jaun Patillo on the other hand was less than a difference maker. But, a pretty solid player for the short time he was here.

He finished up at Western Kentucky or Western Illinois or some where like that off in that direction somewhere. He was named a mid major All American. The class drop for a pretty good player resulted in that player coming off as very good.

A class drop with no ability won't help much. A class drop for a player with some good abilities will help that player. I would think Jelon was some where between those two in ability. But, yet, closer to Patillo by enough to appear to be a much better player at a lower level.

Your point about Div. 11 is probably a good one. They can gather up all the street balling outlaws.

 

[dahldennsull]

I can agree with your last statement for these reasons. Blair for example. He wasn't a good player at OU and when he got to Panhandle A&M he wasn't any better than the other guards at that level. Jaun Patillo on the other hand was less than a difference maker. But, a pretty solid player for the short time he was here.

He finished up at Western Kentucky or Western Illinois or some where like that off in that direction somewhere. He was named a mid major All American. The class drop for a pretty good player resulted in that player coming off as very good.

A class drop with no ability won't help much. A class drop for a player with some good abilities will help that player. I would think Jelon was some where between those two in ability. But, yet, closer to Patillo by enough to appear to be a much better player at a lower level.

Your point about Div. 11 is probably a good one. They can gather up all the street balling outlaws.

I agree with your points but would be wary to compare many players to someone like Patillo.

While the class drop does help those with good or better skills, it's also going to really help those with incredible athletic ability to go with those skills. A drop in level can get you against a lot of skilled players who were either too small, too slow, or something along those lines to not enable them to play at higher levels. When an elite athlete like Patillo drops down, even with decent skills he is going to stand out tremendously, thus earning AA honors in his case.

While Hornbeak does have good skills, and is a pretty good athlete, I don't see him in the upper echelon like Juan was. That said, since he is above average in both, he will likely succeed quite well when going against many guards who will be unable to keep up with him