If you could

[DenverSooner]

As usual, you're HALF right. Certainly, no one would argue Blake's NBA superiority. Conversely, no reasonable person would argue who the better college player was, either. You do realize there is a "Wayman Tisdale Award" which goes to the nation's best freshman, correct? As for "National player of the year", I'm assuming you're aware there was a slight competition difference when Wayman was playing vs. Blake.

I tell you what, Boca. I'll list 10 college players who played during Wayman's time at OU and you list 10 players who played when Blake did. If your list is more impressive than mine, I'll concede Blake was the better college player as well.

1) Michael Jordan
2) Patrick Ewing
3) Ralph Sampson
4) Karl Malone
5) Chris Mullin
6) John Stockton
7) Akeem Olajuwon
8) Clyde Drexler
9) Charles Barkley
10) Mark Price

Your turn!

Good list. Now consider these guys in his same draft:


1. Ewing
2. Xavier McDaniel
3. Mullen
4. Detlef Schrempf
5. Charles Oakley
6. Karl Malone
7. Joe Dumars
8. A.C. Green
9. Terry Porter

That is some serious NBA experience and accomplishments.

 

[bocabull]

Obviously Blake is massively better on the pro level. He was better on the college level too.

In their sophomore years Wayman scored 4.3 ppg more (27 vs 22.7) but it took him 43.5% more FG attempts (18.8 vs 13.1). Blake shot a better FG % (65.9 vs 57.7). Blake grabbed 48.5% more rebounds (14.4 vs 9.7). Blake had almost triple the assists (2.3 vs .8). Not a knock on Wayman. Blake is just flat out better.

If Blake was on this team as a sophomore they would be ranked #1 in the nation and deserve it.

 

[bocabull]

Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Kevin Love
Brook Lopez
James Harden
Steph Curry
DeMar Derozan
Jeff Teague
Paul George

Of course the comparison is not relevant be cause the best players weren't 1 and done back in Wayman's day. Or Blake would have also had Demarcus Cousins, John Wall, Kevin Durant, etc.

 

[jmizzy4ou]

I saw both Wayman & Blake up close and personal in college. No other player I have ever seen commanded more defensive attention than WWT. He faced box &1's double, & triple teams each night. Everyone knew he would get the ball in the post, yet nothing could be done to stop him.

I love BG, and I know he is a better pro because of athleticism, style of play today, etc.... When Wayman played, big men had to post up on each block, and be able to go score with their back to the basket. Most elite big men today are face up players who use speed, quickness, and jump shots to score. Wayman played during an era where you had to bang in the paint to be an elite post player.

No offense to Blake, but WWT got beat on each night, and I never saw him flop, cry to refs, or take defensive possessions off. He just kept coming on offense, knowing at least 2 people would be in his grill at all times. While I love both guys, WWT was the best in college, because he dominated a game just by walking out on the court.......



On edit, be careful with stats anyway. Remember coaches like Dean Smith who never let any one player fill a stat sheet. MJ's stats from his college days show he never averaged over 20 per game, and ended with about 17 or 18 per game for his college career, yet anyone in their right mind could see how dominant he would be, if turned loose by Smith.

OU often had to work the ball to Tisdale slowly, because he mostly scored in the 1/2 court, and defenses made entry passes to him very hard. The style of play was much different than when Blake played...

 

[bocabull]

Going back to 1980 here are the college players who have averaged 14.4 rebounds per game.

1983 - Xavier McDaniel - 14.4
1985 - Xavier McDaniel - 14.8
1991 - Shaquille O'Neal -14.7
1992 - Popeye Jones - 14.4
1993 - Warren Kidd - 14.8
1994 - Jerome Lambert -14.8
1995 - Kurt Thomas - 14.6
1997 - Tim Duncan - 14.7
2009 - Blake Griffin - 14.4
2011 - Kenneth Faried - 14.5

In 35 years only 9 guys have done it. 8 of them had long pro careers. 2 of the best 10 players in history. Blake is in with the elite of the elite.

 

[WaymanFan]

Going back to 1980 here are the college players who have averaged 14.4 rebounds per game.

1983 - Xavier McDaniel - 14.4
1985 - Xavier McDaniel - 14.8
1991 - Shaquille O'Neal -14.7
1992 - Popeye Jones - 14.4
1993 - Warren Kidd - 14.8
1994 - Jerome Lambert -14.8
1995 - Kurt Thomas - 14.6
1997 - Tim Duncan - 14.7
2009 - Blake Griffin - 14.4
2011 - Kenneth Faried - 14.5

In 35 years only 9 guys have done it. 8 of them had long pro careers. 2 of the best 10 players in history. Blake is in with the elite of the elite.

Apples...Oranges. You're not acknowledging the obvious - Wayman played during an era when the competition was far superior. Did u notice the players I put on that list? How on earth was Wayman a 1st team All-American as a freshman with all that competition? Of course, that's why there is a prestigious award named in his honor.

 

[Eielson]

I can't think of a more dominant player in this current era of NCAAB than Blake during his sophomore year. Hansbrough was supposed to be his stiffest competition, and Blake absolutely manhandled him in the NCAA tournament. Beasley was one of the only other potential rivals, but I'd give Blake the edge in their H2H matchup as freshmen, and Blake was much improved his sophomore year.

You guys can have at the Blake vs. Wayman debate, but I'll take the greatest college post player of the 2000's rather than import somebody from the 80's and hope it works out.

 

[sybarite]

Interesting thread. So many people want to argue about which great was the greatest. I wonder how many of them you have actually seen? I don't begin to think that my suggestion of Clifford Ray was the only right suggestion. He isn't the greatest OU player. But, you know what? He does have an NBA title, and he was one of the keys to the title. He wasn't a great scorer. He had about ten rebounds per game in his prime. He blocked a couple of shots. But, what he did was to dominate the interior. He had scorers like Rick Barry with a couple of wings who could shoot lights out at times. But, he was the one that they counted on for interior defense and control of the middle. They won the title in four straight.

If that team had had Wayman or Blake, would it have won the title? A team fits together to accomplish roles. Sometimes, the right player may be one who isn't a great scorer. I look at this team, and I think the one thing that I wonder about is control of the middle. We have some guys who can score. We have pretty fair guards, and I like what I have seen of Lattin. But, can we control the interior? Curiously, Wilt Chamberlain became the most successful when he simply let others do most of the scoring while he controlled the middle. Exactly what does OU need?

 

[Max Power]

Interesting thread. So many people want to argue about which great was the greatest. I wonder how many of them you have actually seen? I don't begin to think that my suggestion of Clifford Ray was the only right suggestion. He isn't the greatest OU player. But, you know what? He does have an NBA title, and he was one of the keys to the title. He wasn't a great scorer. He had about ten rebounds per game in his prime. He blocked a couple of shots. But, what he did was to dominate the interior. He had scorers like Rick Barry with a couple of wings who could shoot lights out at times. But, he was the one that they counted on for interior defense and control of the middle. They won the title in four straight.

If that team had had Wayman or Blake, would it have won the title? A team fits together to accomplish roles. Sometimes, the right player may be one who isn't a great scorer. I look at this team, and I think the one thing that I wonder about is control of the middle. We have some guys who can score. We have pretty fair guards, and I like what I have seen of Lattin. But, can we control the interior? Curiously, Wilt Chamberlain became the most successful when he simply let others do most of the scoring while he controlled the middle. Exactly what does OU need?

In My Opinion OU needs an interior scorer we can dump it down to when shots aren't falling or we need to stop a run

 

[bocabull]

Apples...Oranges. You're not acknowledging the obvious - Wayman played during an era when the competition was far superior. Did u notice the players I put on that list? How on earth was Wayman a 1st team All-American as a freshman with all that competition? Of course, that's why there is a prestigious award named in his honor.

Wayman was playing his best basketball as a freshman. That's extremely rare. Unfortunately that was already his ceiling. Blake passed him by his sophomore year and is still climbing.

I completely disagree that competition was superior in the 80's. That just silly. Everything evolves and the players and competition now is much tougher. Stronger faster more skilled.

It's like people who think the U.S. is not the strongest it's ever been. They just don't understand what makes us strong. We're firing on all cylinders. Virtually all innovation and prosperity in the world originating here. Apple, Google, Tesla, Netflix, Facebook, Amazon, Uber, Airbnb, snapchat, you name it.

 

[Darwin]

Wayman had the better college career. Wayman means twice as much to the OU program. Wayman's court demeanor was pure contagious joy. Both players had strengths and weaknesses in their best college season, some easy to see. Blake clearly inferior from the line. Wayman clearly better from the low post. Blake better in the open court, finishing on the break and against a press. Rebounding edge to Blake, he was a vacuum. Wayman was a low post machine if he got the ball in his spot. Blake not the low post machine but very effective because he could get the ball easier and in multiple spots low, mid and outside, attacking with the dribble. Blake does more in more ways, that is why he is now a better pro.

 

[WaymanFan]

Wayman was playing his best basketball as a freshman. That's extremely rare. Unfortunately that was already his ceiling. Blake passed him by his sophomore year and is still climbing.

I completely disagree that competition was superior in the 80's. That just silly. Everything evolves and the players and competition now is much tougher. Stronger faster more skilled.

I'll give you credit for sticking to your guns when you don't have a leg to stand on. I've already proven the competition in college basketball was superior in the '80s. How could it not be when guys like Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing were staying in college for three or four years? Today, you have guys like Kelly Oubre playing just one year...nothing to debate regarding competition. As for Wayman peaking as a freshman, I think you should read what JMizzy posted. I certainly can't say it any better than that.

 

[Eielson]

I've already proven the competition in college basketball was superior in the '80s.

I'm not sure how you proved anything. You may have supported your claim, but it's far from proof.

How could it not be when guys like Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing were staying in college for three or four years?

How often did he play MJ and Ewing?

I'm not definitively saying Blake was better, but I think the biggest advantage Wayman has is that he's older. Nobody wants to give the new kid credit.

 

[skyvue]

I'm not definitively saying Blake was better, but I think the biggest advantage Wayman has is that he's older. Nobody wants to give the new kid credit.

I don't buy that for a second. If anything, sports fans tend to give credit to recent players over older ones.

Look how long it took for Alvin Adams to get mentioned in this thread, and he's arguably as good a big man as we've ever had.

Wayman was a once-in-a-lifetime player. Had he stayed for his senior year, he would have been the first four-time All-American in history.

 

[Darwin]

I've already proven the competition in college basketball was superior in the '80s. How could it not be when guys like Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing were staying in college for three or four years? Today, you have guys like Kelly Oubre playing just one year...nothing to debate regarding competition. As for Wayman peaking as a freshman, I think you should read what JMizzy posted. I certainly can't say it any better than that.

I agree competition for POY was better in Waymans day because NBA talent didn't run to the NBA asap, but that is dealing with winning the POY . Maybe Blake would not have won his last year, it doesn't diminish his talent, it means 2 or 3 more lottery picks would have been playing that season, possibly winning POY over him. Its not about awards it's about most valuable skill set for this years team.

 

[DenverSooner]

If Blake was on this team as a sophomore they would be ranked #1 in the nation and deserve it.

I agree with that but if Wayman was on this team they would also be ranked number one.

To me they are both awesome but one thing is certainly clear, Blake was a better rebounder.

 

[bocabull]

I'll give you credit for sticking to your guns when you don't have a leg to stand on. I've already proven the competition in college basketball was superior in the '80s. How could it not be when guys like Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing were staying in college for three or four years? Today, you have guys like Kelly Oubre playing just one year...nothing to debate regarding competition. As for Wayman peaking as a freshman, I think you should read what JMizzy posted. I certainly can't say it any better than that.

All you did was prove how much better the game is today which is the same reason Blake Griffin is and from his sophomore year forward was superior to Wayman. Michael Jordan dominated that era because he was a freak athlete. Now the freak athletes are everywhere. This is why Blake is such a stud. He's a big freak athlete. Blake is bigger than Karl Malone with the athleticism of Clyde Drexler. Do you really want to compare John Stockton & Mark Price with Steph Curry, Russell Westbrook and Derrick Rose?

 

[bgrch1350]

I'll give you credit for sticking to your guns when you don't have a leg to stand on. I've already proven the competition in college basketball was superior in the '80s. How could it not be when guys like Michael Jordan and Patrick Ewing were staying in college for three or four years? Today, you have guys like Kelly Oubre playing just one year...nothing to debate regarding competition. As for Wayman peaking as a freshman, I think you should read what JMizzy posted. I certainly can't say it any better than that.

I think your list is going off how good of a pro these guy's turned out to be. Blake Griffin played against elite college players who will have a chance to get their jerseys retired at their former college. Taj Gibson, Cole Aldrich, Tyler Hansbrough, Robbie Hummel, Dexter Pittman, Damian James, Quincy Acy, Morris twins, Craig Brackins, Ed Davis, Deon Thompson, Tyler Zeller, DaSean Butler, Michael Beasley, Darrell Arthur, Darnell Jackson and some more.

I think Karl Malone is the only big guy you mention that played tisdale. Hansbrough may not be top 10 nba player of all time but his college career is better than most you mentioned. And actually Hansbrough and tisdale careers are about the same.

So the question is would you take Griffin over Hansbrough bc if you say yrs to that then you would take Griffin over tisdale.

 

[bgrch1350]

I think your list is going off how good of a pro these guy's turned out to be. Blake Griffin played against elite college players who will have a chance to get their jerseys retired at their former college. Taj Gibson, Cole Aldrich, Tyler Hansbrough, Robbie Hummel, Dexter Pittman, Damian James, Quincy Acy, Morris twins, Craig Brackins, Ed Davis, Deon Thompson, Tyler Zeller, DaSean Butler, Michael Beasley, Darrell Arthur, Darnell Jackson and some more.

I think Karl Malone is the only big guy you mention that played tisdale. Hansbrough may not be top 10 nba player of all time but his college career is better than most you mentioned. And actually Hansbrough and tisdale careers are about the same.

So the question is would you take Griffin over Hansbrough bc if you say yrs to that then you would take Griffin over tisdale.

And comparing Hansbrough to Tisdale, his freshman numbers were 18.9 ppg and 7.8 rpg. You can say those numbers aren't as high as tisdale's but take into the effect of the guys playing next to Hansbrough and how those guys were getting their points and rebounds where Tisdale didn't play next to other solid big men who can score and rebound.

And Blake proved how dominant he was when he played Hansbrough and dominated him. All that talent and no answer for Blake.

 

[Eielson]

I don't buy that for a second. If anything, sports fans tend to give credit to recent players over older ones.

False.