If your son was a top 25 recruit?

He certainly did 2 of the 3 years he had a Top 25 recruit.

The biggest charge on Capel is not so much his coaching as his recruiting. All the Capel supporters have pointed to his recruiting as the reason why he should be retained, but really, other than BG, who has he signed of any signifigance?

You can't include any of the 3 malcontents because they are why we are in our current situation. After those 3 and BG, you have to point to either Crocker, who was originally a Sampson recruit, or Cade Davis as his next 2 best recruits, and bless their hearts both are not good enough to be the star of a good basketball team...they are both glue guys.

Pledger and Fitz are decent players, but both have holes in their game. Clark could be a stud but needs a mean streak, which I think he will develop and probably end the Capel era as the 2nd best player he recruited if he stays in Norman.

The multiple recruiting misses -- Early, Maze, Patillo, Willis, Neysmith, Allen, Hardrick, Cannon, etc. -- point to the fact he's just not a good enough recruiter to get it done at a BCS level institution.
 
The biggest charge on Capel is not so much his coaching as his recruiting. All the Capel supporters have pointed to his recruiting as the reason why he should be retained, but really, other than BG, who has he signed of any signifigance?

You can't include any of the 3 malcontents because they are why we are in our current situation. After those 3 and BG, you have to point to either Crocker, who was originally a Sampson recruit, or Cade Davis as his next 2 best recruits, and bless their hearts both are not good enough to be the star of a good basketball team...they are both glue guys.

Pledger and Fitz are decent players, but both have holes in their game. Clark could be a stud but needs a mean streak, which I think he will develop and probably end the Capel era as the 2nd best player he recruited if he stays in Norman.

The multiple recruiting misses -- Early, Maze, Patillo, Willis, Neysmith, Allen, Hardrick, Cannon, etc. -- point to the fact he's just not a good enough recruiter to get it done at a BCS level institution.

Not sure how Patillo was a recruiting miss. He didn't go to class and was essentially forced to leave. He is putting up nice numbers at WKU this year. Ultimately, you cannot force a kid to go to class...see Keith Clark as another example. Sure, you could argue that Capel should have seen that coming, but there are so many examples of guys who were poor academically in HS who end up doing okay in college that argument is pretty flimsy (hell, J'Covan Brown received Big 12 academic honors this year...and most thought he would never qualify).

Capel has had plenty of recruiting misses, so I do agree with that.
 
This is why I would send my kid to play at OU for Capel, besides the fact I'm an OU alum and a big fan.

I would understand my son may not win as many games at OU with Capel as at other institutions, but I think Capel would be a good influence on him and help prepare him for life after college.

This is all given that my son is a morally sound kid (which he would be) and was mature enough to understand the difference between right and wrong and is selfless as team members have to be.

If my son were lacking in these areas, then I'm not sure OU would be the best because I think Capel has a track record of not being able to "reign in" kids who are on the fringe, so to speak. However, I would still want him to go to OU anyway.

I'm not sure how you can agree with a post that contains this "I think if a parent decides to let his son play for Capel, then that parent doesn't care about their kid's future" and then state you would send your son to play for Capel. Guess I'm missing something.
 
I'm not sure how you can agree with a post that contains this "I think if a parent decides to let his son play for Capel, then that parent doesn't care about their kid's future" and then state you would send your son to play for Capel. Guess I'm missing something.

I wasn't really arguing their post as much as I was stating my opinion to the OP.

You will also notice, I was commenting on OUHoops11's post and even highlighted part of the post that stated:

He obviously has high character. He has a tremendous family. His players seem to care about him a great deal. He can obviously motivate guys to give their all despite the circumstances around them.
 
You are missing the question. Would you recommend OU as a option with Capel as the coach if he could choose any school?

I would not.

Only 2 Big 12 teams would be in consideration, UT and KU.

When I mean clean I am referring to the kids staying out of trouble and actually getting a 4/5 year education. Unless they go to the NBA most of Bill's kids walk with a diploma and are very well rounded. Not referring to Bill's family relo packages.

Every program has a few issues I noticed Bill just suspended a player good for him.

I got your point but my point is I would try not to influence my kid.
 
Oklay, just for grins and giggles, let's say my son was a coveted high school all american in the state of Oklahoma. Talented in the vein of Kevin Durant, Blake, Kobi, etc.... Will be a lottery pick. Has offers from all the elite schools and others. Here is what I tell him. Go any where you feel comfortable. If you want to play for Coach Capel, he would have my blessing. Not going to debate, but I like Jeff and think personally he could develope my son into the player he needs to be. I would ask him to stay at least 3 years and enjoy his college time and not rush to join the "real world" yet. That is my philosophy, but if another big time coach swayed him away from the Sooners, that would be okay too.
 
If my son was offered by every school in the nation I would never suggest OU to him. Not in a million years.

It would be Stanford every day and twice on sunday. Did you know that 80% of all profits from venture investments come from within a 30 mile radius of Stanford?
 
I would look at several aspects.
1. School - B/C if they ever fired the coach, would you still want to be at that school.
2. Coach - The person he is on and off the court; does he develop his players; and is he going to be a father figure for him.
3. Location - does my kid want to play close to home or does he not care..that would be totally up to him...except for certain schools or coach's that I would not allow him to go to or play for.
4. Playing time - what kind of minutes will he get early on and later on. Nothing wrong w/ competition except for when your a top 25 talent and guys like Calipari are going to bring in 2 more top 25 talent for your position in the same year and the following year.

As for Capel...yes...most definatly...I approve of him...now it would be rather my son chooses to go play for him. He seems to be a good person off the court. He's proven that he can improve players. Location is perfect. Great School. And Playing time wouldn't be a problem..but that doesn't mean he wouldnt have competition.
 
If my son was offered by every school in the nation I would never suggest OU to him. Not in a million years.

It would be Stanford every day and twice on sunday. Did you know that 80% of all profits from venture investments come from within a 30 mile radius of Stanford?

Oh, come on boca...admit you would advise him to stay at home and become the next big YMCA basketball star in the mold of his father. :ez-laugh:
 
The biggest charge on Capel is not so much his coaching as his recruiting. All the Capel supporters have pointed to his recruiting as the reason why he should be retained, but really, other than BG, who has he signed of any signifigance?

You can't include any of the 3 malcontents because they are why we are in our current situation. After those 3 and BG, you have to point to either Crocker, who was originally a Sampson recruit, or Cade Davis as his next 2 best recruits, and bless their hearts both are not good enough to be the star of a good basketball team...they are both glue guys.

Pledger and Fitz are decent players, but both have holes in their game. Clark could be a stud but needs a mean streak, which I think he will develop and probably end the Capel era as the 2nd best player he recruited if he stays in Norman.

The multiple recruiting misses -- Early, Maze, Patillo, Willis, Neysmith, Allen, Hardrick, Cannon, etc. -- point to the fact he's just not a good enough recruiter to get it done at a BCS level institution.

Patillo was not a recruiting miss. He helped us get to the elite 8.
Maze was not either. That was Capels 1st year, he didn't have much time to recruit. If the kid wouldn't have been such a head case...he would have made for a solid PG at OU.

The other guys...except for Early b/c he never played here...were all top 150 prospects either out of high school or in juco. These kids just didn't become anything. Another problem with your statement is that your not looking at any other schools...your just looking at ours. Look at all the misses at other schools. All the transfers. Its just plain ignorant to say that he isn't a good enough recruiter to get it done at a big conference school. He got it done with Warren and Blake.

And I don't care that TMG and Gallon left early b/c if those 2 returned with the way Davis, Fitz, and Pledger have improved...your stupid comment would not be made. We would not be struggling this year. I guarantee we would be top 15 this year...and if Warren returned...top 8. Keep saying he can't recruit....b/c he has...even if those 3 guys left...he has proven he can recruit.
 
Tossing Oklahoma out because it's a mess.

I'm going with:
1) Duke
2) North Carolina
3) Boston College

4) Anywhere else he can get a top degree as well as a great basketball experience.
 
KU clean program?

Haha thanks for the laugh buttermaker.
 
If my son was offered by every school in the nation I would never suggest OU to him. Not in a million years.

It would be Stanford every day and twice on sunday. Did you know that 80% of all profits from venture investments come from within a 30 mile radius of Stanford?

I get what you're saying, but I don't like to base everything on academic prowess. I'm actually about to go thru this now as my daughter is a highly accomplished Junior in Oklahoma. She plays softball, basketball and runs track. She will have a chance to play softball at some smaller schools in the region and this topic has come up.

What I told her was, she needs to consider EVERYTHING when deciding on a school. I told her that, more than likely, wherever she starts/finishes her education will be where she starts her career/family/the rest of her life. If she meets a guy at college, there's a good chance he's from that area or at least not from where we live. I tell her that mom and dad would come watch her play ball wherever she plays, but would be limited the further away she goes...and that's OK, but she needs to consider how important that is to her. In the end, she needs to make herself happy and being close to her family is probably 1a or 1b on her list (that's her talking, not me).

She has the grades to go just about anywhere and get most of her school paid for, but I'd bet she ends up at one of the better small schools in the OKC area OR at OU (and walks on - she's not close to being that kind of player)...
 
KU clean program?

Haha thanks for the laugh buttermaker.

Yup that's pretty funny right. Bill always finds a way to get these kids in school and daddy a job. They never seem to have grade issues while at KU and for the most part stay out of trouble, unless it is a Oklahome kid(i.e. JR Giddons) Of course they have boosters lurking on every corner to lawyer these kids up or buy a family a car full of grub steaks or pay for the family to attend games.
 
If my son was offered by every school in the nation I would never suggest OU to him. Not in a million years.

It would be Stanford every day and twice on sunday. Did you know that 80% of all profits from venture investments come from within a 30 mile radius of Stanford?
Isn't Silicon Valley within 30 miles? Could I just say some random Juco there is within a 30 mile radius of all the venture investments? Not to belittle how good a school Stanford is, but your stat seems out of place.

I could say OU is within 30 miles of two of the biggest energy companies in the country.
 
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Of course I would send my son to play for Capel. Why would I not? Capel has proven he can win, he has at the mid-major and major college level, not to mention the international level. He has proven he can develop players into NBA draft picks.

He obviously has high character. He has a tremendous family. His players seem to care about him a great deal. He can obviously motivate guys to give their all despite the circumstances around them.


Your post is asinine because of comments like these:

Jeff Capel at VCU - 79-41 (66% win%)...
Anthony Grant at VCU - 76-25 (75% win%)
Shaka Smart at VCU - 48-17 (74% win%)

Jeff Capel had one good year at VCU, and 3 10+ loss seasons. In fact, Capel has coached 9 years and 7 out of those 9 years he's had at least 10 losses.

About the only thing I agree with is Capel having high character and that he comes from a good family. His dad is/was a average coach as well (similar winning% as his son 63% vs 55%). I like him as a person and "I loved him as a player"...BUT he's just an average coach...161-96 = 63% win%. Answer this...why does/did a coach with such high character attract the lowlifes he had to dismiss? Give me a coach that can win more than 63% of the time and a good character guy for 1000 Alex.

It's always the easy thing to say, but I credit his two year success (at OU) to having an NBA all-star/#1 pick. In the two year Blake-era, Capel never won the conference and only managed one Elite Eight. He got spanked by Louisville in the 2nd round (30 point loss) in '07-08 and beat by 12 to UNC in '08-09. Tell me...where do you think Self, Coach K or Roy Williams would have taken that '08-09 team or do you think Louisville would have spanked any of their teams that bad? Quick, how many conference titles does Capel have in 9 years? 1 is the correct answer.

So I think this quote, "Capel has proven he can win, he has at the mid-major and major college level, not to mention the international level", is just not very accurate or is sparingly correct at best.

Develop players into NBA draft picks? Like who? Blake Griffin would be in the league even if he would have went to Bartlesville (Oklahoma) Wesleyan. I think Willie would have too and I bet if Warren chose another school, he would have went higher. Again that goes back to development. Does anyone really feel like Warren improved much from his freshman year or HS? Or did he digress? I recall him being much higher in mock drafts after his freshman year than he was after his sophomore year.

Cade Davis' improvement (or lack of)
He averaged 3.7 ppg and 4.7 ppg during his first two years when he played only about 13-14 minutes. In the 2009-10 season Cade played 31.8 mpg and only achieved 9.9 ppg. This year Cade is averaging 12.7 ppg in 35 mpg. I just don't see much improvement there. Has he improved his shooting? On 3-pointers, just .02% from 34% to 36% from his Jr. to Sr. season. His free throw shooting went from 77% to 71% in the same time span. He's also committing about 3 times as many turnovers. Where's the improvement? Cade's not the only one but he's someone that has played 4 years under "the great developer".

Willie Warren averaged 14.6 during his freshman season and 16.3 his sophomore season playing about the same amount of mpg. BUT that's because he shot about 2 fgs and 2 more fts per game. His TOs were up by 1.33 per game, FG% was down .04%, 3 pt% was down .07%...his assists only went up 1 per game for a guy trying to develop into a NBA pg. Also the team was minus Blake, so WW should have been an 18-20 ppg guy. Warren would have been the same player or better at almost any other place. He got to the league in spite of Capel.

Blake improved but how much of that was coaching vs. just the him having more free-reign. His FG attempts went up by almost 4 a game and his FT attempts went up by about 4 as well. So that's a chance for +12 ppg and Blake jumped +8 ppg. He did go up significantly in rebounding though. If you want, give Capel credit, I won't. I'd still bet that more guys have failed to develop under Capel than those that have improved.

I always hear "TMG, WW and Tiny were bad characters"...I think a good coach could have at least tamed WW and TMG...Tiny is similar to Cousins from Kentucky/Sacramento, even Calipari tamed him (somewhat) at UK. Cousins would have been kicked out of OU. Capel took those three guys, that should have made NBA rosters, and developed them into NBDL talent. Yeah, yeah character this, character that. Capel doesn't get a free pass for recruiting them and then not being able to harness their emotions. He sat with each kid before they came to OU, so he should have had an idea of what they were like. It's on him.

"He can obviously motivate guys to give their all despite the circumstances around them." - We must be watching two different OU teams. Who's motivated? Who plays defense? Who? Cade?...It means more to Cade and outside of him, there is hardly any motivated players. You could say Fitz because he transformed his body but he plays half-assed a lot more than he should. A good coach would teach Fitz how to stay out of foul trouble and teach Cam Clark/Tyler Neal/Nick Thompson/C.J. Washington to stop playing scared. A good coach would teach Blair how to shoot better than 24% and get more production than 1.3 assists for each turnover. A good coach would teach Pledger to be more well-rounded. Pledger doesn't provide any rebounding, assists, steals or blocks. He just shoots threes and turns the ball over.

Sorry for the length of my rant.
 
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Tossing Oklahoma out because it's a mess.

I'm going with:
1) Duke
2) North Carolina
3) Boston College

4) Anywhere else he can get a top degree as well as a great basketball experience.

And live on the east coast...NO THANK YOU...
 
If my son was offered by every school in the nation I would never suggest OU to him. Not in a million years.

Agree with this. If he wanted to go there on his own, sure, but I would never suggest it. Not sure I would suggest any school in particular, why should I have any say in the process? It's his life, school is already paid for.
 
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