If your son was a top 25 recruit?

there are MANY places on the east coast that are rather nice for an education.

I agree with BC and would add Virginia and Georgetown.
 
coolm said:
there are MANY places on the east coast that are rather nice for an education.

I agree with BC and would add Virginia and Georgetown.
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I'm afraid the crime around Virginia and Georgetown would be enough to make me shy away...but again, that's just me.
 
jessegl25 said:
Jeff Capel at VCU - 79-41 (66% win%)...
Anthony Grant at VCU - 76-25 (75% win%)
Shaka Smart at VCU - 48-17 (74% win%)

Jeff Capel had one good year at VCU, and 3 10+ loss seasons. In fact, Capel has coached 9 years and 7 out of those 9 years he's had at least 10 losses.

About the only thing I agree with is Capel having high character and that he comes from a good family. His dad is/was a average coach as well (similar winning% as his son 63% vs 55%). I like him as a person and "I loved him as a player"...BUT he's just an average coach...161-96 = 63% win%. Answer this...why does/did a coach with such high character attract the lowlifes he had to dismiss? Give me a coach that can win more than 63% of the time and a good character guy for 1000 Alex.

It's always the easy thing to say, but I credit his two year success (at OU) to having an NBA all-star/#1 pick. In the two year Blake-era, Capel never won the conference and only managed one Elite Eight. He got spanked by Louisville in the 2nd round (30 point loss) in '07-08 and beat by 12 to UNC in '08-09. Tell me...where do you think Self, Coach K or Roy Williams would have taken that '08-09 team or do you think Louisville would have spanked any of their teams that bad? Quick, how many conference titles does Capel have in 9 years? 1 is the correct answer.

So I think this quote, "Capel has proven he can win, he has at the mid-major and major college level, not to mention the international level", is just not very accurate or is sparingly correct at best.

Develop players into NBA draft picks? Like who? Blake Griffin would be in the league even if he would have went to Bartlesville (Oklahoma) Wesleyan. I think Willie would have too and I bet if Warren chose another school, he would have went higher. Again that goes back to development. Does anyone really feel like Warren improved much from his freshman year or HS? Or did he digress? I recall him being much higher in mock drafts after his freshman year than he was after his sophomore year.

Cade Davis' improvement (or lack of)
He averaged 3.7 ppg and 4.7 ppg during his first two years when he played only about 13-14 minutes. In the 2009-10 season Cade played 31.8 mpg and only achieved 9.9 ppg. This year Cade is averaging 12.7 ppg in 35 mpg. I just don't see much improvement there. Has he improved his shooting? On 3-pointers, just .02% from 34% to 36% from his Jr. to Sr. season. His free throw shooting went from 77% to 71% in the same time span. He's also committing about 3 times as many turnovers. Where's the improvement? Cade's not the only one but he's someone that has played 4 years under "the great developer".

Willie Warren averaged 14.6 during his freshman season and 16.3 his sophomore season playing about the same amount of mpg. BUT that's because he shot about 2 fgs and 2 more fts per game. His TOs were up by 1.33 per game, FG% was down .04%, 3 pt% was down .07%...his assists only went up 1 per game for a guy trying to develop into a NBA pg. Also the team was minus Blake, so WW should have been an 18-20 ppg guy. Warren would have been the same player or better at almost any other place. He got to the league in spite of Capel.

Blake improved but how much of that was coaching vs. just the him having more free-reign. His FG attempts went up by almost 4 a game and his FT attempts went up by about 4 as well. So that's a chance for +12 ppg and Blake jumped +8 ppg. He did go up significantly in rebounding though. If you want, give Capel credit, I won't. I'd still bet that more guys have failed to develop under Capel than those that have improved.

I always hear "TMG, WW and Tiny were bad characters"...I think a good coach could have at least tamed WW and TMG...Tiny is similar to Cousins from Kentucky/Sacramento, even Calipari tamed him (somewhat) at UK. Cousins would have been kicked out of OU. Capel took those three guys, that should have made NBA rosters, and developed them into NBDL talent. Yeah, yeah character this, character that. Capel doesn't get a free pass for recruiting them and then not being able to harness their emotions. He sat with each kid before they came to OU, so he should have had an idea of what they were like. It's on him.

"He can obviously motivate guys to give their all despite the circumstances around them." - We must be watching two different OU teams. Who's motivated? Who plays defense? Who? Cade?...It means more to Cade and outside of him, there is hardly any motivated players. You could say Fitz because he transformed his body but he plays half-assed a lot more than he should. A good coach would teach Fitz how to stay out of foul trouble and teach Cam Clark/Tyler Neal/Nick Thompson/C.J. Washington to stop playing scared. A good coach would teach Blair how to shoot better than 24% and get more production than 1.3 assists for each turnover. A good coach would teach Pledger to be more well-rounded. Pledger doesn't provide any rebounding, assists, steals or blocks. He just shoots threes and turns the ball over.

Sorry for the length of my rant.
Click to expand...

You made a lot of really good points once I started reading it, but man was it long. :)
 
I wish there were a "conditional ignore list", because I don't mind reading posts by certain posters where our basketball team is not concerned....:ez-laugh:
 
I like Virginia's coach (somewhat) but wouldn't send my son to that bball wasteland. Georgetown? Well I'm white so my son would be white....quick name the last white Hoya?

Other determining factors...how tall is the kid, is he a pg/sg/etc, race, religion...
 
jessegl25 said:
I like Virginia's coach (somewhat) but wouldn't send my son to that bball wasteland. Georgetown? Well I'm white so my son would be white....quick name the last white Hoya?

Other determining factors...how tall is the kid, is he a pg/sg/etc, race, religion...
Click to expand...

Georgetown actually had a white player when Esherick was the coach...can't remember his name though. He even started.
 
sorry....if I am telling MY son where to go then the absolute first thing on my mind is the education he will be getting. That's why I throw in UVa and G'Town along with BC.
 
coolm said:
sorry....if I am telling MY son where to go then the absolute first thing on my mind is the education he will be getting. That's why I throw in UVa and G'Town along with BC.
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If he's a top 25 recruit, isn't there a strong chance he'll be playing hoops for a living...
 
oh, and what difference would it make what kind of education he gets if he gets shot in a drive-by...















I keed, I keed...
 
Klegg said:
If he's a top 25 recruit, isn't there a strong chance he'll be playing hoops for a living...
Click to expand...

doesn't matter. the NBA is a CHANCE. the degree will always give him something ... plus any kid of mine will have had academics stressed since he was knee-high to a jackrabbit anyway.

having that UVa sheepskin on his wall would be pretty darn sweet.
 
Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, Ive Leagues, Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Cal, UCLA, USC all have an equal or better academic offering than UVA.
 
coolm said:
doesn't matter. the NBA is a CHANCE. the degree will always give him something ... plus any kid of mine will have had academics stressed since he was knee-high to a jackrabbit anyway.

having that UVa sheepskin on his wall would be pretty darn sweet.
Click to expand...

I'm with ya on most of what you said.

IMO, the school is somewhat important, but its what the kid ultimately puts into their education and where he's gonna live. I'm pretty sure a degree from OU holds about as much weight around the OKC area as one from UVa.

"The dumbest UVa graduate in the room is STILL a UVa graduate..." ...if you know what I mean...
 
jessegl25 said:
It's always the easy thing to say, but I credit his two year success (at OU) to having an NBA all-star/#1 pick. In the two year Blake-era, Capel never won the conference and only managed one Elite Eight. He got spanked by Louisville in the 2nd round (30 point loss) in '07-08 and beat by 12 to UNC in '08-09. Tell me...where do you think Self, Coach K or Roy Williams would have taken that '08-09 team or do you think Louisville would have spanked any of their teams that bad? Quick, how many conference titles does Capel have in 9 years? 1 is the correct answer.


Develop players into NBA draft picks? Like who? Blake Griffin would be in the league even if he would have went to Bartlesville (Oklahoma) Wesleyan. I think Willie would have too and I bet if Warren chose another school, he would have went higher. Again that goes back to development. Does anyone really feel like Warren improved much from his freshman year or HS? Or did he digress? I recall him being much higher in mock drafts after his freshman year than he was after his sophomore year.

Cade Davis' improvement (or lack of)
He averaged 3.7 ppg and 4.7 ppg during his first two years when he played only about 13-14 minutes. In the 2009-10 season Cade played 31.8 mpg and only achieved 9.9 ppg. This year Cade is averaging 12.7 ppg in 35 mpg. I just don't see much improvement there. Has he improved his shooting? On 3-pointers, just .02% from 34% to 36% from his Jr. to Sr. season. His free throw shooting went from 77% to 71% in the same time span. He's also committing about 3 times as many turnovers. Where's the improvement? Cade's not the only one but he's someone that has played 4 years under "the great developer".

Willie Warren averaged 14.6 during his freshman season and 16.3 his sophomore season playing about the same amount of mpg. BUT that's because he shot about 2 fgs and 2 more fts per game. His TOs were up by 1.33 per game, FG% was down .04%, 3 pt% was down .07%...his assists only went up 1 per game for a guy trying to develop into a NBA pg. Also the team was minus Blake, so WW should have been a 18-20 ppg guy. Warren would have been the same player or better at almost any other place. He got to the league by himself.

Blake improved but how much of that was coaching vs. just the him having more free-reign. His FG attempts went up by almost 4 a game and his FT attempts went up by about 4 as well. So that's a chance for +12 ppg and Blake jumped +8 ppg. He did go up significantly in rebounding though. If you want, give Capel credit, I won't. I'd still bet that more guys have failed to develop under Capel than those that have improved.

I always hear "TMG, WW and Tiny were bad characters"...I think a good coach could have at least tamed WW and TMG...Tiny is similar to Cousins from Kentucky/Sacramento, even Calipari tamed him (somewhat) at UK. Cousins would have been kicked out of OU. Capel took those three guys that should have made NBA rosters and developed them into NBDL talent. Yeah, yeah character this, character that. Capel doesn't get a free pass for recruiting them and then not being able to harness their emotions. He sat with each kid before they came to OU, so he should have had an idea of what they were like. It's on him.

"He can obviously motivate guys to give their all despite the circumstances around them." - We must be watching two different OU teams. Who's motivated? Who plays defense? Who? Cade?...It means more to Cade and outside of him, there is hardly any motivated players. You could say Fitz because he transformed his body but he plays half-assed a lot more than he should. A good coach would teach Fitz how to stay out of foul trouble and teach Cam Clark/Tyler Neal/Nick Thompson/C.J. Washington to stop playing scared. A good coach would teach Blair how to shoot better than 24% and get more production than 1.3 assists for each turnover. A good coach would teach Pledger to be more well-rounded. Pledger doesn't provide any rebounding, assists, steals or blocks. He just shoots threes and turns the ball over.

Sorry for the length of my rant.
Click to expand...

Well I'm sure that Anthony Grant's wins had nothing to do with Capel leaving him Eric Maynor????!!!

Capel has an elite 8 under his belt. Its a good thing for Grant that he is playing in a horrible SEC conference b/c he doesn't have a single quality win in non-conference and bunch of losses....and they only have 1 win over a team that will be in the tournament and thats Kentucky at home...and they only won by 2. Thats the only way he would make it to the tournament just to lose in the 1st round.

So you don't think that he deservers credit for taking OU to an elite because he had 2 NBA players on his team??? Well lets count for us how many UNC had when they beat us...Hansbrough(Ind), Lawson(Den), Ellington(MIN), Davis(TOR)...And Zellar will make a squad...so lets just say 5. Since you made that stupid statement...lets continue down that road. Floridas 2 championships...He had Horford, Green and Noah...I guess he doesn't deserve any credit. UNC's 1st championship under Williams he had how many...He had 4...I guess no Credit goes to Williams....Should I continue down...I guess no credit goes to Boeheim winning b/c he had Carmelo. No credit to Calipari for having Rose, Evans, Wall, and Cousins.

If your going to take credit away from Capel b/c he had Griffin then you better take away all credit to coach's who had an NBA player on their team.

As for Warren...he was hurt most of the season. Can you not remember. Our best player..OUT!

If you look at statistics...instead of performance...then thats why you don't see improvement.
 
bgrch1350 said:
Well I'm sure that Anthony Grant's wins had nothing to do with Capel leaving him Eric Maynor????!!!

Capel has an elite 8 under his belt. Its a good thing for Grant that he is playing in a horrible SEC conference b/c he doesn't have a single quality win in non-conference and bunch of losses....and they only have 1 win over a team that will be in the tournament and thats Kentucky at home...and they only won by 2. Thats the only way he would make it to the tournament just to lose in the 1st round.

So you don't think that he deservers credit for taking OU to an elite because he had 2 NBA players on his team??? Well lets count for us how many UNC had when they beat us...Hansbrough(Ind), Lawson(Den), Ellington(MIN), Davis(TOR)...And Zellar will make a squad...so lets just say 5. Since you made that stupid statement...lets continue down that road. Floridas 2 championships...He had Horford, Green and Noah...I guess he doesn't deserve any credit. UNC's 1st championship under Williams he had how many...He had 4...I guess no Credit goes to Williams....Should I continue down...I guess no credit goes to Boeheim winning b/c he had Carmelo. No credit to Calipari for having Rose, Evans, Wall, and Cousins.

If your going to take credit away from Capel b/c he had Griffin then you better take away all credit to coach's who had an NBA player on their team.

As for Warren...he was hurt most of the season. Can you not remember. Our best player..OUT!

If you look at statistics...instead of performance...then thats why you don't see improvement.
Click to expand...

I would say a little of that is correct. I don't remember every game or play and my memory is getting very bad.

As far as the rest you mentioned...those coaches win with NBA players or just good college players like Davis or Fitz.

Here's a telling stat I mentioned earlier...Capel has seven 10 loss seasons in only 9 years...Roy Williams? 5 in 25 years. Coach K? 9 in 36 years. Calipari? 5 in 19 years. Boeheim? 12 in 35 years.

I hope you aren't arguing that Capel is anywhere close to the upper echelon of coaches...He's more on Grant and Smart's level and that's the problem. This isn't Bama nor VCU, it's Oklahoma.

Oh and complaining about Bama's 18-8 record is retarded. How many of us would take 18-8 even if OU played Bacone? I'd hope every single poster. Capel wouldn't have Bama at 18-8!
 
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jessegl25 said:
Duke, Northwestern, Stanford, Ive Leagues, Rice, Vanderbilt, Notre Dame, Cal, UCLA, USC all have an equal or better academic offering than UVA.
Click to expand...

I will agree with NW, Stanford, Rice, Vandy, Cal, and UCLA. We were talking about east coast though and I thought it was full rides (excludes Ivy Leagues).
 
You're right coolm. UVA would be an good destination athletically/academically.
 
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