It's Not Complicated; More Talent Needed

OUSKINS

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I've said this all year to my friend and family and anyone else who will listen: at the end of the day, the 2015 Sooners were overachievers. Similar story in 2014.

I don't say that as a means to disparage the players OR absolve them or the coaches for all weaknesses, I simply believe it to be reality.

I look at it like this... Take the teams in the Elite 8. Then look at our roster. Then ask yourself how many Sooners would

A) start for those teams

Or

B) be in the rotation for those teams

We will go back to front here. We played 9 players this year... And two them pretty sparingly.

--Walker and Booker would not play at all for any of those teams
--Bennett wouldn't play for most of them. Maybe he gets a couple of minutes per game for the smaller teams, but I'd doubt it.
--Lattin would be similar to DJ. Maybe his athleticism gets him some PT, but he clearly wouldn't be in regular rotation for UK, Wisconsin, Duke, Zags, etc.

So of our shallow bench, none of them would be playing significant minutes (even off the bench) for really good teams.

Starters

--Woodard wouldn't start at the point for any of the elite 8 teams. He wouldn't play much at all for most of them.
--Cousins: see Woodard, although he might be used as a defensive stopper.
--Spangler: Limited minutes, maybe no minutes for the bigger teams.
--Thomas would be in rotation for most of these teams, likely wouldn't start for the majority.
--Hield would start for all of them with maybe 1-2 exceptions. Would play big minutes for all of them.

In summary, of our 9 rotation players, I only think 2 of them would appeal to the more elite teams in the country. And Thomas would be just another guy for most of them. And this would apply to many teams that didn't make the elite 8 as well.

LK has done a fantastic job of squeezing the orange here. Not leaving much juice behind. The parts fit well together. And I am not saying guys like Woodard, Cousins, or Spangler are scrubs. They are all solid players. And solid players surrounded by one above average one and one very good one can make for a good team. But we are short in terms of raw talent.

Cousins isn't a natural. I think he's a grinder. A worker. A good athlete, but nothing special. Not a natural shooter or ball handler. But he plays hard, has improved, and uses his size to become a really good defender. And he was smart, gnerally took only open shots and turned into an efficient shooter. But when the pressure and talent ratchets up in the tourney, some of his limitations get exposed. Spangler and Woodard are in this category as well.

What those guys need is simple: some help. We need another handful of guys that can make plays. We need to expand the rotation so that guys like Cousins can settle into more comfortable roles. So that Spangler can get more rest. So that Woodard isn't always the primary ball handler.

So even though we were only a few plays away from advancing, we were also only a few plays away from not being there at all. And that was the story of our season: a small margin for error. Eventually that catches up to you.

To me, next year shapes up as a great year for the Sooners if a few things fall the right way:

1. Buddy returns. Goes without saying. If he doesn't, the entire goal of next season changes.

2. Lattin improves. Maybe the most important potential development. He doesn't need to be as polished in the post as Thomas, but he does need to be a consistent contributor and a guy that is able to finish in the paint. He might be the most physically gifted player on the roster right now, so my hopes for him are high.

3. Woodard improves. He doesn't need to get a lot better, but he does need to play a bit better than he did this year.

4. Manyang contributes. As does at least one of the redshirt big men. Spangler needs more rest and Lattin isn't going to be able to carry the offense in the post. We will need a true big man rotation off the bench. Akolda can be raw, that's fine. But he needs to be reliable and he needs to be a rim protector. I don't knownas much about the redshirt guys as others do, but one of them stepping in would be nice.

5. James or Odomes is serviceable as a freshmen. Might need a boost from time to time on the wing. Overall, we need a stronger bench to help maximize the starters and help offset the loss of Thomas.

If Buddy returns, I see OU openinf ranked in the top 10 next year with legit hopes for the B12 Title and a very high seed in March. Potential would exist for it to be a special season.
 
Woodward needs to get his game under control.

OU needs a true point guard that can lead this team in CONSISTENCY!
 
Its not complicated. It is very difficult to get higher level recruits to come to a place where the fans do not support the basketball team. The top basketball schools can truthfully tell recruits that they will play fun games in a home court filled with 12,000 or 14,000 fans.

We should be thankful that we get players that "overachieve" given our lousy fan support. We should be thankful that OU experiences the success that it does.
 
Its not complicated. It is very difficult to get higher level recruits to come to a place where the fans do not support the basketball team. The top basketball schools can truthfully tell recruits that they will play fun games in a home court filled with 12,000 or 14,000 fans.

We should be thankful that we get players that "overachieve" given our lousy fan support. We should be thankful that OU experiences the success that it does.

While I don't disagree with you, there are plenty of schools that are worse off than OU in terms of how good the program is and how the fan support is, that manage to land better talent than we do.

Pritchard is a step in the right direction. Would have been really nice to have landed one of our top 4-6 guard targets for the 2015 class. I think some of those guys will be big time difference makers.

Hopefully, at worst, LK has us back to the level that Kelvin left us at, which is a top 2-4 team in the conference, and a 4-7 seed type team most every year. If we can do that for a couple of seasons, maybe we can elevate the recruiting the way Kelvin was starting to do.
 
While I don't disagree with you, there are plenty of schools that are worse off than OU in terms of how good the program is and how the fan support is, that manage to land better talent than we do.

Pritchard is a step in the right direction. Would have been really nice to have landed one of our top 4-6 guard targets for the 2015 class. I think some of those guys will be big time difference makers.

Hopefully, at worst, LK has us back to the level that Kelvin left us at, which is a top 2-4 team in the conference, and a 4-7 seed type team most every year. If we can do that for a couple of seasons, maybe we can elevate the recruiting the way Kelvin was starting to do.

I'm not sure which schools you are referring to in your first paragraph, but some schools are helped in recruiting success by their close proximity to fertile recruiting grounds. I am trying to think of a school with less basketball fan support than OU, that recruits better than OU.

Some "small schools" like Villanova have MUCH BETTER fan support. Just go to any NCAA tournament site and see which team has a big group of fans at the game. Its not OU.

There are also schools that have better fan support for basketball (e.g., Kansas State) that have less success than OU basketball. Every school/team has their unique set of circumstances. I guess it is arguable whether or not KSU gets better recruits than OU, but OU gets better results over the long term.

Wonderful point about Kelvin. I would have loved to see what he could have done with his last recruiting class here. It was heartbreaking when he departed for Indiana and that recruiting class fell apart.

I do believe that Lon Kruger has a plan, and that plan is likely consistent with your last paragraph.
 
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Sorry, if this repeated, but several players could hit the weight room. Who replaced Yo-Yo?

It wouldn't hurt if Cousins, Lattin, McNease and Buford all get bigger. Akoda Manyang is 7'0 250# so that will help.

In the off season, Jordan needs to work on still making his shot after getting bumped. That could result in a batch of and-ones and add four ppg to his scoring average.

Lattin and McNease need to develop an offensive back to the basket game. Spangler needs to take it to the basket and work with Woodard on finishing when getting fouled. Some players get so good at it that they seek out the foul knowing they're still going to make the shot unless they're fouled flagrantly.

Manyang, from film, seems to have a nice soft foul line jumper which appears unguardable. I hope we have more of an inside out game next year which should make our outside shots less rushed.

Lattin could benefit from Akeem's new big man camp held in home town of Houston. Manyang, maybe also, but I wonder if Akeem would hold it against him that he's Sudanese and not Nigerian.
 
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... Lattin could benefit from Akeem's new big man camp held in home town of Houston. Manyang, maybe also, but I wonder if Akeem would hold it against him that he's Sudanese and not Nigerian.

Ha! Akeem will happily accept the camp fee from anyone that can pay.
 
I think we need depth more than anything. We have a talented roster. We really only had one bench guy that could have gotten us any points consistently. And really only one other guy that got us minutes off the bench and he had no offensive game.
 
In just four short years, Lon has taken this program from a roster populated by guys like Carl Blair, Casey Arent and Barry Honore to one talented enough to come within an eyelash of both the Big 12 regular season crown and an Elite 8. All of this in the face of losing his most talented incoming recruit to some goofy SNAFU between a prep school and the NCAA.

I'm not saying there isn't more work to be done if OU is to reach that next level. There clearly is. But I think the addition of this next class along with Buford will be an instant upgrade in size, athleticism, and most importantly, depth. Put all of that around a nucleus of extremely experienced seniors (hopefully including Buddy) and I think this team may be closer to competing at those high levels than you think.
 
For the record his first name is Hakeem. I assume you mean Hakeem Olajuwon.
 
I think we need depth more than anything. We have a talented roster. We really only had one bench guy that could have gotten us any points consistently. And really only one other guy that got us minutes off the bench and he had no offensive game.

I agree with this. Kruger just completed his fourth year. He has done a really good job but still doesn't have the depth OU needs. He has had two set backs with M'Baye leaving and Hornbeak leaving. Had OU had M'Baye last year I think they beat North Dakota State (or was it North Dakota) and win a couple of other games. This year I think Hornbeak does a better job than Walker.

Next year OU is going to have more depth. The loss of Thomas is a big but that is college basketball. If Hield leaves that will be a big loss two; however, OU will have more options next year even without both of those guys.

I personally think things are moving in the right direction. We just need a bit more time. It took Sampson five years to make it to the Sweet 16 and then he had a pretty impressive four year run. I think Kruger is on a similar path. I have no clue if he will make a final four but I think OU will be a good basketball team next season. The guys are playing good defense and running a system that has been proven to work.
 
I think we need to be bigger (length) and more physical. We play two 6'4" wings. Neither are thick. Thomas and Spangler were maybe 6'8" with their tennis shoes on. I like that we are quick but we need some muscle who mix it up.

Of course, we need some more depth, too. I wish we had a true backup PG.

The good news is we are adding a lot of big guys who weren't available to us this year: Manyang, Buford, McNeace, and Odomes. James is a very thick wing who can shoot. Hopefully Buddy comes back, so we have 4 returning starters. Lattin and Booker will get better.
 
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For the record his first name is Hakeem. I assume you mean Hakeem Olajuwon.

While we're on the topic of the correct spelling of someone's name, Jamuni's last name is MCNEACE, not McNease as at least half of the board seems to think. :ez-laugh:
 
We don't have much NBA talent, but we have plenty of college talent in our starting 5. The bench was trash, though. Lattin was the only decent contributor, and he was still incredibly raw.
 
We don't have much NBA talent, but we have plenty of college talent in our starting 5. The bench was trash, though. Lattin was the only decent contributor, and he was still incredibly raw.

See, I think we had a very good starting five, but it was more so because they fit well together as opposed to be a collection of high level talent. I view Woodard, Cousins, and Spangler as guys that have physical limitations due to natural ability and/or size. I'm not saying they are talentless or have no physical gifts, but I don't view them as guys that would be particularly attractive individually to any of the higher tier programs. Buddy certainly would be and Thomas as well to a lesser extent.

So I agree that our biggest issue is we need to get deeper-- more rest and less pressure will likely do wonders for the four starters that are coming back next year. But one or two guys that bring a little something extra to the table (Akolda) would be nice.
 
We don't have much NBA talent, but we have plenty of college talent in our starting 5. The bench was trash, though. Lattin was the only decent contributor, and he was still incredibly raw.

Good grief, rein it in a little. You're talking about college students, not highly paid professionals. And you're not giving Booker nearly enough credit. He was battling injuries for a good half of the season, but he had a very solid last third-to-half of the season. In fact there were at least a couple of games we wouldn't have won without him.

He had a bad game against MSU, but then so did Cousins. Is he "trash" too?

Even DJ had some games where he made key contributions, and so did Walker.

No Sooner athlete (or a collection of them) should ever be described as trash. They deserve our respect.
 
I disagree. Talent wasn't our issue this season. The problem was offensive efficiency and inconsistency.

The offense was better 2 years ago. That's without dispute. Everyone seemed to rely on the explanation of "we spent the whole offseason working on defense", I think that was a ruse to take pressure off of Thomas.

This offense never seemed to click with the addition of Thomas. From the last minute NCAA approval of his play we struggled to fit him in and it was ALWAYS a square peg in a round hole. He was a proven commodity so it would make sense that he should just plug right in and keep rolling along - adding his numbers to what we could already achieve. Right? well, not really. We weren't accustomed to running the offense thru him. We had an extremely hard time making the passes and it was NEVER consistent with our offensive flow and rhythm. Let's just admit it. Our other offensive skills weren't being used in addition to his. They sat in the wings waiting while he tried to score. It wasn't like we were consistently seeing defenses sag in on him and he hit a pass to an open teammate in the corner. That happened some, but not nearly enough to make it a smooth part of the offense. We had 3 guys standing around watching him try to score.

The caveat to that was when he would be making shots from the high post. The defense adjusting then led to some excellent plays inside as well as on the wings. THAT part of his game fit in well but we didn't make enough use of it. Add that to more activity driving to the bucket (which we really lost this season) and we have the better offense of 2 years ago.

Thomas had some benefits defensively with his bulk and strength, but he wasn't a stalwart on that side of the ball. We can really improve ourselves defensively with another post player getting those minutes ... and if that post player has any shot from the high post then we'll be better offensively to boot (provided we see Buddy return). I think we'll be seeing Spangler take more of those shots just like he started to do as the season progressed. With a healthy back and some time in the gym working on the shot he could make a big jump. Huge.

It's not talent, but more integrated and effective use of what we already have. We had the talent to beat MSU. Just not the consistency. Had we the consistency then we would have been up by much more at the half and IMO won the game.
 
Coolm is on to something here. I don't recall Thomas getting shots within the framework of the offense much this season. It seemed for him to get his shot it had to be a clear out for him. So we could either run offense or get Thomas involved but rarely did both happen at the same time.
 
We don't have much NBA talent, but we have plenty of college talent in our starting 5. The bench was trash, though. Lattin was the only decent contributor, and he was still incredibly raw.

That seems a bit harsh. I wish I was trash like any of them, especially Lattin and Booker.
 
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