Jordan Woodard Update (scout)

[Smash Williams]

Mookie and Grace played together

But they weren't in the same recruiting class and had already played together in JUCO, correct? That seems a bit different than this situation.

 

[Sam]

Seems as though we have a similar conversation every year regarding bigs that people want to be wings.

http://ouhoops.com/forum/showthread.php?p=303449&highlight=osby+small+forward#post303449

How many minutes did Osby play at the 3?

Amath is more skilled than Roe at the three in my eyes though.

 

[Smash Williams]

Amath is more skilled than Roe at the three in my eyes though.

Does that change the position-wise minutes distribution for either one, though? Osby seemed destined to play inside almost exclusively, given the lack of depth, and I have a hard time imagining OU's post depth being such that M'Baye can play major minutes at the three.

(Also glad to hear that re: Amath's skill. I always appreciate your evals.)

 

[WTSooner]

Amath is more skilled than Roe at the three in my eyes though.

And Osby was more skilled at the three than Taylor Griffin.

 

[garyeb2]

And Osby was more skilled at the three than Taylor Griffin.

Oops, a point of contention. Kruger did the best he could with what he had. He had very few options as to who would play, where they would play, how many minutes they would play and how he would rotate them.

Osby was where he was because he was the best on the team for that job. Someone inside had to try to defend and rebound and score some. Without him filling that spot, the team really would have been in a heck of a mess.

Clark was then left as the best available option at the #3. Now, "if" Kruger would have had any other good option at the #4, I doubt that you would argue against Osby being a better option last season at the #3 than last years Cam.

I certainly hope that Cam somehow someway becomes the kind of player many of us hope he could and should be. If he does, then the M'Baye at the #3 talk should probably be tempered. If he doesn't, the team would be better with M'Baye at the #3 and Fitz starting again. I frame it that way because I agree with Sam that M'Baye has better outside skills than Osby.

 

[Sam]

Does that change the position-wise minutes distribution for either one, though? Osby seemed destined to play inside almost exclusively, given the lack of depth, and I have a hard time imagining OU's post depth being such that M'Baye can play major minutes at the three.

(Also glad to hear that re: Amath's skill. I always appreciate your evals.)

I think it depends on the development of the back up wings vs the post depth.
Does Casey Arent make a jump after one year into a consistent contributor off the bench?

Does Bennett prove to be a good option off the bench for Johnny Gilbert duty (garbage work) due to his size and length? (His wingspan is no joke, now the question becomes can it be harnessed for good?)

If one or both prove to be good options down low, I think the door would be wide open for M'Baye to gobble up minutes on the wing.

Due to sheer numbers though, I'd handicap the wing depth emerging over the post depth.

You have Tyler Neal, (if he develops into the most consistent threat from deep, he'll surely find his way onto the court), Buddy Hield (another long range bomber/overall bucket getter), Jelon Hornbeak (swiss army knife option off the bench) and Isiah Cousins (will get minutes at the point, but from what I've heard is big and talented enough to get some minutes off the ball).

In the end, I think a lot of this is moot and just the usual message board off season banter. M'Baye will be spending a lot of time inside but I would expect some time along the perimeter. In a perfect world though, he'd likely excel as a college three.

And Osby was more skilled at the three than Taylor Griffin.

And unless my memory is faulty, I believe there were at least a few times that Pattilo and Griffin both occupied the floor with either Blake or Ryan Wright also in the lineup.

 

[garyeb2]

Sam you really do a much better job of stating your position than I do. Less confrontational I suppose. But, starters,minutes, and rotation is a moving target right now.

The Arent and Bennet ifs are big ifs. If those freshmen guards, reguardless of potential, spend their first year bouncing the ball off their foot and throwing it into the 4th row. They won't play. If they show up with alittle maturity and skill sets as advertised, they will play a bunch.

I'm taking the optimistic view that all those ifs work out favorably. Most of them have to for the team to be alot better.

 

[WTSooner]

And unless my memory is faulty, I believe there were at least a few times that Pattilo and Griffin both occupied the floor with either Blake or Ryan Wright also in the lineup.

Pattillo is more of a three than any of M'Baye, Osby, or Taylor Griffin though, IMO. He was only 6'6 (same as Crocker), and nearly the same weight. Now, I will say that M'Baye, offensively, MAY have a better perimeter offensive game than Pattillo, but that doesn't make M'Baye more of a 3 in my book.

It's just nice to have actual options this year. With a little average depth last year, I still say we're 3-5 wins better.

 

[garyeb2]

Pattillo is more of a three than any of M'Baye, Osby, or Taylor Griffin though, IMO. He was only 6'6 (same as Crocker), and nearly the same weight. Now, I will say that M'Baye, offensively, MAY have a better perimeter offensive game than Pattillo, but that doesn't make M'Baye more of a 3 in my book.

It's just nice to have actual options this year. With a little average depth last year, I still say we're 3-5 wins better.

Sure, A better bench and M'Baye will make the team better. I would put the over/under number on wins at 20. If any or most of the freshman guards are good enough to start or play big minutes the over would be a real good bet.

 

[BoulderSooner]

Pattillo is more of a three than any of M'Baye, Osby, or Taylor Griffin though, IMO. He was only 6'6 (same as Crocker), and nearly the same weight. Now, I will say that M'Baye, offensively, MAY have a better perimeter offensive game than Pattillo, but that doesn't make M'Baye more of a 3 in my book.

It's just nice to have actual options this year. With a little average depth last year, I still say we're 3-5 wins better.

Pattillo is not close to the shooter and doesn't have close to the handle that m'baye does

 

[WTSooner]

Pattillo is not close to the shooter and doesn't have close to the handle that m'baye does

That is such a SMALL piece of the evaluation process of where a player can play though. Ace was a better shooter from 15+ feet then any of M'Baye/Osby/TGriffin/Pattillo. Do you think Ace had any business playing the 3?

 

[SoonerSpock]

Does that change the position-wise minutes distribution for either one, though? Osby seemed destined to play inside almost exclusively, given the lack of depth, and I have a hard time imagining OU's post depth being such that M'Baye can play major minutes at the three.

(Also glad to hear that re: Amath's skill. I always appreciate your evals.)

You may well be correct. But after watching more than a dozen practices last season and seeing M'Baye play almost exclusively at the wing and thinking that Lon would prefer to have Fitz, Osby and M'Baye on the court at the same time I see Amath playing the wing much more than the power forward.

Why have Amath focus all last year on improving his perimeter game if the game plan was to play him primarily at the 4?

 

[DenverSooner]

You may well be correct. But after watching more than a dozen practices last season and seeing M'Baye play almost exclusively at the wing and thinking that Lon would prefer to have Fitz, Osby and M'Baye on the court at the same time I see Amath playing the wing much more than the power forward.

Why have Amath focus all last year on improving his perimeter game if the game plan was to play him primarily at the 4?

Yes. The coaching staff wanted M'Baye to work on outside shooting and ball handling because that was the weakest part of his game. Kruger is quoted saying something like this in an article that was recently linked on this board. Kruger actually spoke in more positive terms saying M'Baye was already very good in the post. I don't think you should read too much into the fact that he focused on his weaknesses in his redshirt year. I suspect he will be a lot like Osby. He will shoot some 3 point shots and spread the defense a bit with his versatility but ultimatley be a post player.

 

[WTSooner]

Why have Amath focus all last year on improving his perimeter game if the game plan was to play him primarily at the 4?

I've answered this before, but two reasons.....

1. SOMEBODY had to play the guard/wing spots in practice on the 2nd team, since Blair was the only true guard we had on the bench last year after Newell left. If you look at the players that were on the bench, redshirting, or walk-ons, the numbers game simply pushed M'Baye to the wing in order to have a decent 2nd team.

2. I don't doubt that LK wanted M'Baye to improve his perimeter offensive game, and what better way to do that than to stick him out there full time? The confusion comes in that some folks think that means playing him on the wing this year, while I think it means playing him as a post that can step outside in the flow of the offense. That isn't some new thing. Ace, Minor, and Najera all played minutes as the "4", and were able to score when getting the ball outside the three point line. I think LK was just trying to improve M'Baye's skills out there, by giving him as much time on the wing as he could.

 

[garyeb2]

I've answered this before, but two reasons.....

1. SOMEBODY had to play the guard/wing spots in practice on the 2nd team, since Blair was the only true guard we had on the bench last year after Newell left. If you look at the players that were on the bench, redshirting, or walk-ons, the numbers game simply pushed M'Baye to the wing in order to have a decent 2nd team.

2. I don't doubt that LK wanted M'Baye to improve his perimeter offensive game, and what better way to do that than to stick him out there full time? The confusion comes in that some folks think that means playing him on the wing this year, while I think it means playing him as a post that can step outside in the flow of the offense. That isn't some new thing. Ace, Minor, and Najera all played minutes as the "4", and were able to score when getting the ball outside the three point line. I think LK was just trying to improve M'Baye's skills out there, by giving him as much time on the wing as he could.

WT, I'm not challenging your argument. Your points are perfectly valid. I just think that you are leaving one thing out.

M'Baye didn't just play the wing in practice last year. Most every day he dominated the 1's from the wing. Some days it looked like a man playing with boys. They just couldn't do anything with him.

Now, I know. It could all be a mirage. After all, it was our defense that he was dominating. But, no one that sat there and wached that exibition a couple of times seems to think so.

I don't care where Kruger plays him. I just want the team to do well. As a matter of fact, I think that if Kruger could put 3 good guards along with M'Baye and Osby on the floor. We would have a team that was hard to beat.

But, unless one of the freshman step up, and I hope they do. M'Baye is the best wing on the team.