Last minute recruits

[tycat947]

Yeah, and I spit coffee all over my keyboard every time I read one of your posts.

It's fine that your opinions differ from syb's and many other posters. But do they always have to be so predictably negative?

Always! :facepalm

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Mr. Cat, out of curiosity, do you draw Syb's bathwater along with kissing up to him?

 

[Soonerguy06]

you guys are cracking me up!! I hate to have to agree with the 'negative people,' but I do. SC has has a successful career overall there is no denying that, if you compare it with where our program was when she took over, it's been great. What I am more concerned with is TODAY, and how we never win these recruiting battles, don't land the big transfer kids, and for some reason cannot beat a top 20 team to save our lives! Deny it all you want, but the only times we have beat ranked teams have been if they were in the Big 12 and we had already seen them play/played against them once already. It's pretty sad any time I see that we are scheduled against a ranked team in the pre-conference schedule and know it's going to be an automatic Loss, which doesn't do jack to keep us relevant! I'd like to think we have a shot against UCONN, or even a TAMU or UK team, but we would do well to stay within 10 points of these teams, lately anyway.
I think if we hold our other sporting teams to a high standard, we should as well with our WBB team. Demand greatness. Put some pressure on this coaching staff. I say give SC two more seasons, if she has the same results (22 to 23 win seasons and will settle for mediocrity) then we get rid of her and get a younger, hungrier coach / coaching staff that will take less money and get in there that will keep us relevant!
I'm sure most will hate me for saying this but I have to be honest here. I want our WBB team to be a scrappy, unpredictable, dangerous team year in and year out!! Sadly, we have settled for pretty players, that require a good 2 seconds to set up their shot outside and are afraid to rebound inside (god i miss A. Thompson!).

 

[Soonerbay]

you guys are cracking me up!! I hate to have to agree with the 'negative people,' but I do. SC has has a successful career overall there is no denying that, if you compare it with where our program was when she took over, it's been great. What I am more concerned with is TODAY, and how we never win these recruiting battles, don't land the big transfer kids, and for some reason cannot beat a top 20 team to save our lives! Deny it all you want, but the only times we have beat ranked teams have been if they were in the Big 12 and we had already seen them play/played against them once already. It's pretty sad any time I see that we are scheduled against a ranked team in the pre-conference schedule and know it's going to be an automatic Loss, which doesn't do jack to keep us relevant! I'd like to think we have a shot against UCONN, or even a TAMU or UK team, but we would do well to stay within 10 points of these teams, lately anyway.
I think if we hold our other sporting teams to a high standard, we should as well with our WBB team. Demand greatness. Put some pressure on this coaching staff. I say give SC two more seasons, if she has the same results (22 to 23 win seasons and will settle for mediocrity) then we get rid of her and get a younger, hungrier coach / coaching staff that will take less money and get in there that will keep us relevant!
I'm sure most will hate me for saying this but I have to be honest here. I want our WBB team to be a scrappy, unpredictable, dangerous team year in and year out!! Sadly, we have settled for pretty players, that require a good 2 seconds to set up their shot outside and are afraid to rebound inside (god i miss A. Thompson!).

Join the "negative" club (i.e.fans who don't mind supporting the consistent pursuit of excellence) and get some popcorn...
https://www.google.com/#q=jeopardy+music

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Good definition of the club. Perhaps instead of "don't mind" pursuing we should alter the charter to "think we must".

How would you word that exactly, Syb, since you know everything.

 

[SoonerinNC]

Unfortunately the internet has given us the capability to criticize people who know more about what we are talking about than we do ourselves. So I try to keep a pretty even keel with my posts.

We have picked up some pretty good recruits so I don't think that is the major cause of our problem. And by problem I don't mean the number of wins and losses each year.

I am puzzled about why in recent years our players don't improve like Amanda Thompson, Nye Stevenson, and many others, even fringe players improved during their career in the past.

Carter made a nice splash as a freshman and never improved. Little improved her overall game but still did not make the impact that her first year indicated that she would. Ortiz was picked for and started at point guard for the national team after her freshman year and didn't even start the first part of last season. Ellenberg and Campbell actually dropped off their senior years. We played as well without Ellenberg that year as we did with her in the lineup.

I am also puzzled by the vast difference between when we play good and when we play not so good. We beat a top 10 Texas team and lose to Oral Roberts. And that kind of difference happens in parts of every game.

I have never understood why we have so many good out of bounds possessions and yet struggle to get a good shot off in games. And why we supposedly have great shooters but don't shoot well from the outside.

I also don't understand why we stick to the 4 guard offense. That kept Ashley Paris off the court for 3 years. Also it seems like the good programs are going to two legit bigs.

I am not one that thinks we should be in the final four every year. That doesn't happen outside Storz, CT. But I would like to see us consistently recruit good players, see them grow and play consistent basketball. Then I am ready to let the chips fall where they may.

 

[sybarite]

Unfortunately the internet has given us the capability to criticize people who know more about what we are talking about than we do ourselves. So I try to keep a pretty even keel with my posts.

We have picked up some pretty good recruits so I don't think that is the major cause of our problem. And by problem I don't mean the number of wins and losses each year.

I am puzzled about why in recent years our players don't improve like Amanda Thompson, Nye Stevenson, and many others, even fringe players improved during their career in the past.

Carter made a nice splash as a freshman and never improved. Little improved her overall game but still did not make the impact that her first year indicated that she would. Ortiz was picked for and started at point guard for the national team after her freshman year and didn't even start the first part of last season. Ellenberg and Campbell actually dropped off their senior years. We played as well without Ellenberg that year as we did with her in the lineup.

I am also puzzled by the vast difference between when we play good and when we play not so good. We beat a top 10 Texas team and lose to Oral Roberts. And that kind of difference happens in parts of every game.

I have never understood why we have so many good out of bounds possessions and yet struggle to get a good shot off in games. And why we supposedly have great shooters but don't shoot well from the outside.

I also don't understand why we stick to the 4 guard offense. That kept Ashley Paris off the court for 3 years. Also it seems like the good programs are going to two legit bigs.

I am not one that thinks we should be in the final four every year. That doesn't happen outside Storz, CT. But I would like to see us consistently recruit good players, see them grow and play consistent basketball. Then I am ready to let the chips fall where they may.

I tend to agree with about ninety percent of this.

I think Sherri addresses a part of this:
https://www.si.com/womens-college-basketball/2017/04/07/sherri-coale-oklahoma-recruiting-strategy

I do not think we have had great shooters. I think we expected more from the shooting of Little, but she was a scorer rather than a shooter, and she didn't have the athletic ability to be the same type of scorer in college. I think the only good shooter that we have brought in was Whitney, and the injury took her pins away which does affect shooting, the base and all. Maddie may end up having a great shooting year if her legs are sound. She has the shooter's touch, far more than anyone we have had recently. A visit to the stat section of the NCAA shows the percentages.

I have the impression that Ana has a shooter's touch. She seemed to be deadly in a semi-final game as a junior, scoring about 35 with a defender in her face. I don't know about Shaina. I think she is a bit more of a scorer.

The Oral Roberts and North Texas games were confusing. I look to the leadership on the floor, and I just don't know if the seniors had it. I'm looking for more out of a Maddie/Gabby attack.

Recruiting---in the entire history of recruiting of men's and women's basketball at OU, there has been only one #1 recruit come to OU---Courtney Paris. Out of state McDonald's All-Americans--have the men ever had one? The women have had Amanda, Abi, Ashley, Courtney, and Aaryn. I think the lack of Oklahoma as a state with a positive and forward image is hurting in women's basketball more than it would in something like football. When I look to where players are going, there is a reason. I think it is remarkable that we have even been in the hunt. So often, we lose out to a Tennessee, Louisville, Duke, or Notre Dame. There is a reason. I doubt their coaches could recruit to OU. We have to get another type and try to put something together. Hopefully, the Canadian link will be successful.

 

[Sweetest OU Girl]

Unfortunately the internet has given us the capability to criticize people who know more about what we are talking about than we do ourselves. So I try to keep a pretty even keel with my posts.

We have picked up some pretty good recruits so I don't think that is the major cause of our problem. And by problem I don't mean the number of wins and losses each year.

I am puzzled about why in recent years our players don't improve like Amanda Thompson, Nye Stevenson, and many others, even fringe players improved during their career in the past.

Carter made a nice splash as a freshman and never improved. Little improved her overall game but still did not make the impact that her first year indicated that she would. Ortiz was picked for and started at point guard for the national team after her freshman year and didn't even start the first part of last season. Ellenberg and Campbell actually dropped off their senior years. We played as well without Ellenberg that year as we did with her in the lineup.

I am also puzzled by the vast difference between when we play good and when we play not so good. We beat a top 10 Texas team and lose to Oral Roberts. And that kind of difference happens in parts of every game.

I have never understood why we have so many good out of bounds possessions and yet struggle to get a good shot off in games. And why we supposedly have great shooters but don't shoot well from the outside.

I also don't understand why we stick to the 4 guard offense. That kept Ashley Paris off the court for 3 years. Also it seems like the good programs are going to two legit bigs.

I am not one that thinks we should be in the final four every year. That doesn't happen outside Storz, CT. But I would like to see us consistently recruit good players, see them grow and play consistent basketball. Then I am ready to let the chips fall where they may.

Excellent analysis, NC.

I also am puzzled as to how we can play so badly once or twice a year against far, far inferior teams. It is without any doubt the thing I find most disappointing in our teams. And I think it costs us lots of fans. It simply should not be happening except on the rarest of occasions.

I do have a thought on one point you made. I believe we are so successful on the out of bounds plays because it is something the coaches can teach - as a method. And they are as good at teaching particular skill sets as any staff around. The fact is, our players are generally not great athletically. Now that does not mean they are below average, just not the types (generally) that are top notch athletics. So the other parts of the game leave us sometimes dependent on certain skills our players are pretty good at - but not excellent at.

Plus, we have depended on the 4 guard offense so much (perhaps due to who we can seem to recruit). And the fact is, that does not consistently work against the very top, athletic teams.

I think the real issue is that our state is small - and very few tall (6-3 to 6-4) athletic girls are produced. So we are left recruiting shorter, guard type players, or tall athletic girls from across the country. If you pay attention, many, many girls stay in their home state, Not all, but most. It is a clear disadvantage.

We can wish it wasn't true. We can claim it isn't true. Some of us can even believe it isn't true.

But the fact is: It Is True.

 

[sybarite]

There is a possibility that OU might become as lucky as the men have been with an in-state prospect. According to the Boneyard (among others) Levings is the #1 recruit when she comes out in 2020 from Edmond Memorial. If she is that good, OU may finally have the big in-state recruit. Supposedly, Maddie Manning is her favorite player. Hopefully, that continues.

A top recruit like that is what OU needs to get back on top. We do very well for what we can get.

 

[inoref]

There is a possibility that OU might become as lucky as the men have been with an in-state prospect. According to the Boneyard (among others) Levings is the #1 recruit when she comes out in 2020 from Edmond Memorial. If she is that good, OU may finally have the big in-state recruit. Supposedly, Maddie Manning is her favorite player. Hopefully, that continues.

A top recruit like that is what OU needs to get back on top. We do very well for what we can get.

I'm not content of how well we been doing...We should be better, IMO more and more fans are thinking the same way as me. If finishing third or fourth in the big 12 is good enough for you..fine. But at least pay Sherri Coale the third or fourth highest salary in the big 12....Then I too will be content

 

[sybarite]

March, 1990: there were about 65 fans per game that attended the women's basketball games at OU. Of course, a couple of decades earlier, despite a fruitful highschool program, OU had no basketball for women at all. Duncan expressed his opinion, and we lost a program.

I don't think the attitudes have changed much since 1990. As a program, we had leprosy when we needed a coach in 1996. We didn't see the Tennessee assistants applying to OU, and we didn't coax a coach away from Texas or Texas Tech. We hired a high school coach. Wow. That is really a commitment.

I don't know that anything has changed. Sherri brought in a lot of fans by building a program of which many were proud. But, there were always those who resented Title IX or thought they knew better than a girl how to coach basketball. I think for every fan Sherri brought on board, there was a message board complainer who probably thought that she blew it against Connecticut and hasn't done much since. Among the complainers here are some people who have no loyalty to OU at all, but seem drawn to cast allegations against Sherri and/or the program.

I find it interesting that there doesn't seem to be this much criticism of Kruger, and the men had what kind of record last year? If Sherri had had that record, this board would be erupting.

I just don't see much improvement from those who didn't go to the games when there were only 65 fans. Attitudes haven't changed. I think I'll put my faith in someone who has been to how many NCAAs in a row? I think the alternative is more likely to be someone who has trouble drawing 65 per game.

 

[Stringmusic]

Well said, Syb. In Sherri I trust. I think Sherri made a true statement of contrast: Put the ND coach or Tennessee coach in Norman and see how they do recruiting girls to come and play for OU. Not many are interested in living or playing in Oklahoma. Sherri does well with what she can get "on the market". Once we can get over the hump though, Sherri's phone will start ringing. Look at OU women's gymnastics or softball for example. Just gotta get over that hump.

 

[SoonerinNC]

But Syb those fans are becoming fewer and fewer. And I think at one point they were practically giving tickets away. But if you have the product you will get the fans. Our team has underperformed for at least the last two years. And the fans notice. A lot more empty seats that in our better years.

I'm not as hung up on how much Sherri is paid as some.

And while we don't have beaches and mountains we have very successful coaches who recruit very well to Oklahoma and win championships. I'm not counting mens gymnastics because there isn't that much competition for performers. He does have to get kudos for a great coaching job because they perform very well.

 

[sybarite]

Recruiting is different in different sports. Women's and men's gymnastics aren't going to the same neighborhoods as basketball recruiters are. The typical gymnastics stronghold has a lot of people who can afford the $100,000 their kid might need to get the coaching from age three to seventeen. Softball recruits also have a different background.

Football is different because it is all guys, all about preparation for the pros, and the tradition sells it. The competition is primarily a lot of schools like OU.

Basketball---you want an inner-city kid to go to Norman. My Best Man was black. Some forty-five years ago, he had his brother come to OU to start, coming from Baltimore. He got out after about four months, indicating that he had never been in an area so white. There was no life for him after sundown.

 

[atlantasooner]

For every excuse just offered by Sybarite, there's an easy counter.

South Carolina complete women's basketball wasteland forever. Stuck in the shadow of UGA and Tenn. As dead as OU women hoops ever was. Despite more publicity for the women's game versus early 1990s.
Now they are a national powerhouse. Why??
Recruiting, pure and simple.

 

[scrybe]

I'm not content of how well we been doing...We should be better, IMO more and more fans are thinking the same way as me. If finishing third or fourth in the big 12 is good enough for you..fine. But at least pay Sherri Coale the third or fourth highest salary in the big 12....Then I too will be content

I also want to see better results from OU women's basketball; I believe we all do. However, when I read comments like the one in the bold type above, I sorta feel like we should be focusing our discontent more on the (so-called) OU fans than the OU coaches.

 

[sybarite]

For every excuse just offered by Sybarite, there's an easy counter.

South Carolina complete women's basketball wasteland forever. Stuck in the shadow of UGA and Tenn. As dead as OU women hoops ever was. Despite more publicity for the women's game versus early 1990s.
Now they are a national powerhouse. Why??
Recruiting, pure and simple.

Thanks for making my point.

indicating that he had never been in an area so white. There was no life for him after sundown.

1. South Carolina has a viable black community.
2. Staley is not the typical hire for an all-white-male decision-making group.
3. South Carolina has exactly the opposite history. Going back fifty years, South Carolina has hired basketball coaches, like Frank McGwire, who was hired because of a specific pipeline to NYC. Unlike OU, SC has always operated primarily in basketball by recruiting outside the state for its major stars. Staley is no exception.

 

[SoonerSpock]

For every excuse just offered by Sybarite, there's an easy counter.

South Carolina complete women's basketball wasteland forever. Stuck in the shadow of UGA and Tenn. As dead as OU women hoops ever was. Despite more publicity for the women's game versus early 1990s.
Now they are a national powerhouse. Why??
Recruiting, pure and simple.

Not to mention that there is no life after sundown for the inner city black kid in Waco, TX. Or that Kruger's teams made the sweet 16 in 2015 and the final four in 2016. Sherri last took a team to the sweet 16 in 2013. Unfortunately it is a what have you done for me lately world and Sherri's teams have done very little since 2010.

More important is the ability to successfully recruit Texas which is our nearest large population base with multiple OU fans and alum residents and a lot of top BB talent. The men's teams have had 5 Texas kids on each of the last two rosters including 4 (James, Lattin, McGusty and Buford) who were 4* top 138 kids with 2 top 35 kids. The women's team had 2 player (Little and Mulkey) last year who were both top 30 players and none this year.

 

[womenssports]

As someone mentioned above, I do not see the players improve. If I saw that,
I could take being third or 4th in the conference and not making it out of the first or second game in the NCAA tournament. Plus, limiting silly mistakes.

I do believe the above is on Sherri. I also do not believe she will leave until
Colton can take over. I know everyone thinks that's crazy, but I do not. I do not believe he is going to go anywhere else and coach. I do not believe the assistant coaches are moving up or leaving, (with the exception of Decosta and would not hazard a guess, but she might leave). Guess we will see.

 

[soonerstar]

As someone mentioned above, I do not see the players improve. If I saw that,
I could take being third or 4th in the conference and not making it out of the first or second game in the NCAA tournament. Plus, limiting silly mistakes.

I do believe the above is on Sherri. I also do not believe she will leave until
Colton can take over. I know everyone thinks that's crazy, but I do not. I do not believe he is going to go anywhere else and coach. I do not believe the assistant coaches are moving up or leaving, (with the exception of Decosta and would not hazard a guess, but she might leave). Guess we will see.

Everything you say is spot on. I see Colton as heads coach in waiting. However, Coale might get him an assistant coaching job with some of her coaching buddies so it will look better when he is hired as OU head man.