MBB Transfer Portal Thread: Moser Year 4

IndySooner said:
Based on your numbers, we are recruiting Godwin’s backup.
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It seems to be tracking that way, or has been tracking that way.

Either Godwin is better than we think, or good bigs just aren't out there.

My "Bigs" board I put together last week or so ago for that excel sheet showed 10 bigs, with only 3 bigs outscoring Godwin...Norchad Omier, Coleman Hawkins, and DJ Burns (even though I had the wrong one). So, not many options that outplay Godwin. 1 other big was ranked above Hugley and that was Mo Wague.

So safe so say we are looking for a bench big to come in and defend.
 
TEvans4Three said:
You are both looking at it from 2 different views and over-argueing.

@Eielson makes a great point though, I know former athletes who think the transfer portal is a godsend. Not for the top tier spending we are seeing, but for the players that get bamboozled by coaching staffs.

(Scenario 1) Imagine deciding how you want the next 4 years of your life to plan out. The coach says, to sit a year, learn, then you will be the starter if you work hard enough. The next year he recruits a 5-star. You think you have a shot to compete, then the next year the writing is on the wall and you know he won't ever play you. You then have to transfer, sit out another year, then have 1 year to play. (That was pre-transfer rules abolished) (redshirt not withstanding)

(Scenario 2) You get recruited to play for a coach bc you love his style of play, you see what he does with guards, and you are ready to make the jump to the pros under his coaching. After year 1 of you learning the offense, he takes another job and bails. You cannot follow him without sitting out a year. So you have to decide to stay and play for a coach you may hate or know nothing about with an entirely new offense to learn, or risk a transfer, sit out to waste a year of playing, hope that you can compete and the coach doesn't promise the incumbent at a new school playing time. (potentially 2-3 years of playing time wasted, bc of a coach job hopping)

This issue has always been coaches can move around however the hell they want with no real penalty (buyouts depending) and the players literally had to waste an entire year of college play to transfer, god forbid it was in conference bc that was illegal as well.

The point is, for the athlete, the transfer portal has been great, bc it gives you more time to find your fit, leave if your coach is an ASS-HAT, and play the game you want to play.

Will there be people who abuse the system? Of course. Will there be money grabs abounds? Yes. Does it make coaching much harder? Absolutely. (You have to recruit nonstop now) On the flip side, will this mean some players will stay longer instead of leaving early to go pro? Yes. (more money in college than in G-League/overseas)

There are pros and cons. The cons, for OU, are that we are not big-boy players in the basketball NIL game and don't seem to want to be that anytime soon. So it sucks, bc as fans, we see the writing on the wall.

But to not see how good this is for players, is just holding your fandom too close to your chest.
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I know I am a little old school on this. I am all for players transferring with no penalty, except on the academic side. I have talked to an academic councilor who works with transfers at OU where some of players transfer in as seniors in eligibility are still years away from a degree. Basically transferring from school to school only taking electives and no core towards a degree. That is not everyone, but I think there should be some consideration into actually working toward a degree as the ncaa advertised most athletes will go pro in something else.
 
TEvans4Three said:
It seems to be tracking that way, or has been tracking that way.

Either Godwin is better than we think, or good bigs just aren't out there.

My "Bigs" board I put together last week or so ago for that excel sheet showed 10 bigs, with only 3 bigs outscoring Godwin...Norchad Omier, Coleman Hawkins, and DJ Burns (even though I had the wrong one). So, not many options that outplay Godwin. 1 other big was ranked above Hugley and that was Mo Wague.

So safe so say we are looking for a bench big to come in and defend.
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The mistake was made at the beginning of the Portal when OU was going after just a few of the top bigs. They needed to start bringing in a bunch of bigs to find one instead of cherry picking. Guards and small forwards are plentiful, bigs are not especially for OU without a giant NIL pool. Porter still hasn't figured that out.
 
TEvans4Three said:
But to not see how good this is for players, is just holding your fandom too close to your chest.
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meh...it has nothning to do with my fandom...I"m looking at it from a high level, not as an OU fan.

It is terrible for the kids in the long run in the majority of cases. The grass isn't always greener. I'd suggest listneing to Lehman's take on it.

I really don't like the "coach's get to leave whenever they want" argument because it simply isn't true. If a coach leaves before his contract is over, there are penalties. In the old setup, a player was free to leave as well. The penalties were different. As employees, coaches had a penalty of forfeited money. For the players, as students, it was eligibility.

I'm sure there is a happy middle ground somewhere but people get too caught up in thinking that the main benefit of these kids in college bball is money. That isn't the case.
 
TEvans4Three said:
You are both looking at it from 2 different views and over-argueing.

@Eielson makes a great point though, I know former athletes who think the transfer portal is a godsend. Not for the top tier spending we are seeing, but for the players that get bamboozled by coaching staffs.

(Scenario 1) Imagine deciding how you want the next 4 years of your life to plan out. The coach says, to sit a year, learn, then you will be the starter if you work hard enough. The next year he recruits a 5-star. You think you have a shot to compete, then the next year the writing is on the wall and you know he won't ever play you. You then have to transfer, sit out another year, then have 1 year to play. (That was pre-transfer rules abolished) (redshirt not withstanding)

(Scenario 2) You get recruited to play for a coach bc you love his style of play, you see what he does with guards, and you are ready to make the jump to the pros under his coaching. After year 1 of you learning the offense, he takes another job and bails. You cannot follow him without sitting out a year. So you have to decide to stay and play for a coach you may hate or know nothing about with an entirely new offense to learn, or risk a transfer, sit out to waste a year of playing, hope that you can compete and the coach doesn't promise the incumbent at a new school playing time. (potentially 2-3 years of playing time wasted, bc of a coach job hopping)

This issue has always been coaches can move around however the hell they want with no real penalty (buyouts depending) and the players literally had to waste an entire year of college play to transfer, god forbid it was in conference bc that was illegal as well.

The point is, for the athlete, the transfer portal has been great, bc it gives you more time to find your fit, leave if your coach is an ASS-HAT, and play the game you want to play.

Will there be people who abuse the system? Of course. Will there be money grabs abounds? Yes. Does it make coaching much harder? Absolutely. (You have to recruit nonstop now) On the flip side, will this mean some players will stay longer instead of leaving early to go pro? Yes. (more money in college than in G-League/overseas)

There are pros and cons. The cons, for OU, are that we are not big-boy players in the basketball NIL game and don't seem to want to be that anytime soon. So it sucks, bc as fans, we see the writing on the wall.

But to not see how good this is for players, is just holding your fandom too close to your chest.
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Sports fans are incredibly selfish when it comes to this stuff. People hated Curt Flood. People acted like free agency would “ruin” pro sports when it arrived on the scene decades ago. Yet sports in general are far more popular than ever before. Now, when something similar is happening in college sports, people are making the same dire predictions and saying the players don’t deserve the money, should be satisfied with tuition and room and board, should show loyalty, etc. I don’t know exactly what the system will look like in five or ten years. But I’m willing to predict that the vast majority of fans will still be watching, and will likely have found something else to complain about. It’s just how things go. Everyone always thinks the “good old days” were the best time.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
meh...it has nothning to do with my fandom...I"m looking at it from a high level, not as an OU fan.

It is terrible for the kids in the long run in the majority of cases. The grass isn't always greener. I'd suggest listneing to Lehman's take on it.

I really don't like the "coach's get to leave whenever they want" argument because it simply isn't true. If a coach leaves before his contract is over, there are penalties. In the old setup, a player was free to leave as well. The penalties were different. As employees, coaches had a penalty of forfeited money. For the players, as students, it was eligibility.

I'm sure there is a happy middle ground somewhere but people get too caught up in thinking that the main benefit of these kids in college bball is money. That isn't the case.
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That is fair, I'll take that statement for what it is.

Now, if a HC leaves, do you think players from that team should get a free transfer out of it? Bc they agreed to play for the school + coach. If yes, then what about a position coach? DC/OC...that is just as important as a HC. For basketball, your lead recruiter/assistant you love/committed for. They leave or take a HC, should that transfer be granted as well with no penalty? (my answer is a definite yes, but those are all things you need to consider) For all the crap we give Moser for his rotating door of asisstants, assistant coaches have a very massive part of recruitment and development and can be pivotal for a player at the school.

( I would say let's argue this elsewhere, but the portal is slow as balls and this is technically portal talk)
 
TEvans4Three said:
That is fair, I'll take that statement for what it is.

Now, if a HC leaves, do you think players from that team should get a free transfer out of it? Bc they agreed to play for the school + coach. If yes, then what about a position coach? DC/OC...that is just as important as a HC. For basketball, your lead recruiter/assistant you love/committed for. They leave or take a HC, should that transfer be granted as well with no penalty? (my answer is a definite yes, but those are all things you need to consider) For all the crap we give Moser for his rotating door of asisstants, assistant coaches have a very massive part of recruitment and development and can be pivotal for a player at the school.

( I would say let's argue this elsewhere, but the portal is slow as balls and this is technically portal talk)
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Head coach yes...assistant coaches, no.
You have to draw the line somewhere
 
WichitaSooner said:
Sports fans are incredibly selfish when it comes to this stuff. People hated Curt Flood. People acted like free agency would “ruin” pro sports when it arrived on the scene decades ago. Yet sports in general are far more popular than ever before. Now, when something similar is happening in college sports, people are making the same dire predictions and saying the players don’t deserve the money, should be satisfied with tuition and room and board, should show loyalty, etc. I don’t know exactly what the system will look like in five or ten years. But I’m willing to predict that the vast majority of fans will still be watching, and will likely have found something else to complain about. It’s just how things go. Everyone always thinks the “good old days” were the best time.
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Trying to think about it from a Thunder-fan perspective...bc free agency can completely change a franchise.

There will be guys who play here for a year (Gordon H) who just dont fit and are budget fillers which you are okay with leaving.
There will be "franchise guys" (Durant, PG, Westbrook) who will leave and you will either root for or hate for how they left. (Bag, playing time, etc)
There will be guys who buy in and those who dont. We may have our "Collison" in Luke N or Jacolb Cole...who knows?
Your alumni is almost going to quadruple in size in such a small span for the amount of turnover we will see.

It makes it harder to be a fan of college basketball as a purist, I will admit that. I loved how it was run, 4 year guys, JUCO fill ins, etc...

But at the same time, it was the next logical step for the student athlete. Especially when the money greedy NCAA tried to prevent a kid from making money off his name bc of how popular he was playing said sport. A kid not being able to make money from YouTube sharing his college experience and losing eligibility was one of the dumbest decisions the NCAA ever made. Writing was on the wall there.
 
TEvans4Three said:
It seems to be tracking that way, or has been tracking that way.

Either Godwin is better than we think, or good bigs just aren't out there.

My "Bigs" board I put together last week or so ago for that excel sheet showed 10 bigs, with only 3 bigs outscoring Godwin...Norchad Omier, Coleman Hawkins, and DJ Burns (even though I had the wrong one). So, not many options that outplay Godwin. 1 other big was ranked above Hugley and that was Mo Wague.

So safe so say we are looking for a bench big to come in and defend.
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Not great Bob
 
TEvans4Three said:
Trying to think about it from a Thunder-fan perspective...bc free agency can completely change a franchise.

There will be guys who play here for a year (Gordon H) who just dont fit and are budget fillers which you are okay with leaving.
There will be "franchise guys" (Durant, PG, Westbrook) who will leave and you will either root for or hate for how they left. (Bag, playing time, etc)
There will be guys who buy in and those who dont. We may have our "Collison" in Luke N or Jacolb Cole...who knows?
Your alumni is almost going to quadruple in size in such a small span for the amount of turnover we will see.

It makes it harder to be a fan of college basketball as a purist, I will admit that. I loved how it was run, 4 year guys, JUCO fill ins, etc...

But at the same time, it was the next logical step for the student athlete. Especially when the money greedy NCAA tried to prevent a kid from making money off his name bc of how popular he was playing said sport. A kid not being able to make money from YouTube sharing his college experience and losing eligibility was one of the dumbest decisions the NCAA ever made. Writing was on the wall there.
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I think the worst example for me was the pro skier/ wide receiver for Colorado had to stop getting endorsements for his skiing to stay eligible for football. They had nothing to do with his football.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Sports fans are incredibly selfish when it comes to this stuff. People hated Curt Flood. People acted like free agency would “ruin” pro sports when it arrived on the scene decades ago. Yet sports in general are far more popular than ever before. Now, when something similar is happening in college sports, people are making the same dire predictions and saying the players don’t deserve the money, should be satisfied with tuition and room and board, should show loyalty, etc. I don’t know exactly what the system will look like in five or ten years. But I’m willing to predict that the vast majority of fans will still be watching, and will likely have found something else to complain about. It’s just how things go. Everyone always thinks the “good old days” were the best time.
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Pro sports have a system of checks and balances to equal the playing field. College sports do not. It is bad for the have nots, of which there are many.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Sports fans are incredibly selfish when it comes to this stuff. People hated Curt Flood. People acted like free agency would “ruin” pro sports when it arrived on the scene decades ago. Yet sports in general are far more popular than ever before. Now, when something similar is happening in college sports, people are making the same dire predictions and saying the players don’t deserve the money, should be satisfied with tuition and room and board, should show loyalty, etc. I don’t know exactly what the system will look like in five or ten years. But I’m willing to predict that the vast majority of fans will still be watching, and will likely have found something else to complain about. It’s just how things go. Everyone always thinks the “good old days” were the best time.
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Also remember most good players do not get to pick their pro destination to start career. Free agent after a few years makes sense. College kids right now coming out of high school get to pick where they go and negotiate nil. Also kids in college officially cannot be cut and replaced mid season. There are some guarantees in college that pros do not have. Just think, in a Preseason practice a college coach says you off my team. College players deserves pay and transfer rights, but pro free agency is different.
 
aliasou said:
Pro sports have a system of checks and balances to equal the playing field. College sports do not. It is bad for the have nots, of which there are many.
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Not if you listen to all the small market owners who cry poor and act like they have no chance to compete.
 
snydrosooner said:
Also remember most good players do not get to pick their pro destination to start career. Free agent after a few years makes sense. College kids right now coming out of high school get to pick where they go and negotiate nil. Also kids in college officially cannot be cut and replaced mid season. There are some guarantees in college that pros do not have. Just think, in a Preseason practice a college coach says you off my team. College players deserves pay and transfer rights, but pro free agency is different.
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This.

Aside from the amount of dollars made, college athletes currently have it MUCH better than professional athletes. They may not reach the level, in terms of dollars, that pro athletes do, but in virtually every other way, they've got it better. I have no problem with a collegiate athlete getting one free transfer, but unlimited transfers? Playing for four or five teams in as many years? That's not good (except perhaps financially) for the student-athlete--and it's terrible, in my opinion, for the coaches, the fans and for college basketball.
 
It's funny how many people think they know what is best for the players. How about we just let them make those choices for themselves? Some will make good decisions, some will make bad decisions. Millions of people their age don't even go to college and are out in the work force as soon as they finish high school, supporting themselves and maybe even a young family. This paternalistic notion that "we need rules to protect these players from themselves" is silly.

In any event, this is all temporary. The NCAA will lose one of the lawsuits soon enough and athletes will be deemed employees. There will be contracts or some sort of guardrails put in place once that happens, and the world will continue to spin.
 
snydrosooner said:
Also remember most good players do not get to pick their pro destination to start career. Free agent after a few years makes sense. College kids right now coming out of high school get to pick where they go and negotiate nil. Also kids in college officially cannot be cut and replaced mid season. There are some guarantees in college that pros do not have. Just think, in a Preseason practice a college coach says you off my team. College players deserves pay and transfer rights, but pro free agency is different.
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Wait til the players start "holding out' right before a big game or in the tournament.. these things will be happening soon, if they aren't already behind the scenes
 
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WichitaSooner said:
Sports fans are incredibly selfish when it comes to this stuff. People hated Curt Flood. People acted like free agency would “ruin” pro sports when it arrived on the scene decades ago. Yet sports in general are far more popular than ever before. Now, when something similar is happening in college sports, people are making the same dire predictions and saying the players don’t deserve the money, should be satisfied with tuition and room and board, should show loyalty, etc. I don’t know exactly what the system will look like in five or ten years. But I’m willing to predict that the vast majority of fans will still be watching, and will likely have found something else to complain about. It’s just how things go. Everyone always thinks the “good old days” were the best time.
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This is a pretty solid take. For the most part, I think fans (myself included) want what's best for them and, as a result, tend to make arguments reflective of their interest. That's pretty natural. I don't know what's best for college athletes...I've never been one. I'd probably say that's the same for the majority of posters.

Further, it's hard to just say "I don't like the way this is, so I'll quit watching." We are all here, so we've invested a decent portion of our lives following OU basketball. I don't love the direction things are going with roster uncertainty. It doesn't upset me as much as others, but I'm not a huge fan. But, it will take a lot more for me to quit following and going to games. Honestly, I don't know what that line would be.
 
jdizzle34 said:
Imagine if NY or LA were able to have rosters with no salary cap, compared to OKC or Memphis without one. Yeah, it wouldn't be a fair fight. Hence why salary caps matter.
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Baseball doesn't have a cap. People complain about the Dodgers, Yankees and, since Steve Cohen bought the Mets, they are at the top of the list. Those teams have combined to win two World Series in the past 23 seasons. Smart teams like the Rays and Guardians and Twins manage to be competitive almost every season. The Royals made back-to-back World Series in 2014 and 2015. I could go on.

Even in the NBA, with a salary cap. stars find a way to play together and the "super team" trend has been going on for well over a decade.
 
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