MBB Transfer Portal Thread: Moser Year 4

NorthCarolinaSooner said:
Actual basketball question:

How different is this team with Ugonna instead of Wague in your opinion? Would it drastically change your view? Or just marginally?
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Ugonna is an upgraded version of Wague. He is more athletic and a little longer. I think Wague is a bit more physical but Ugonna could raise our defensive ceiling significantly in my opinion.
 
WS and WT I've been trying not to argue with recently in respect to the admin. I've actually agreed with both a few times recently.

I do feel like, at times, you go out of your way to be overly sarcastic and get rather personal in your responses. You question the intelligence of people who don't agree with you and really try hard to prove you are "right" when it comes to players who don't succeed in your mind. But, I rarely see you put positive predictions on any guys PM recruits. EVERY single coach misses on certain guys....every one. The best coaches don't have foolproof methods. It's a little easier for the guys filling up with 5 stars to be wrong but they still miss. But if you have negative predictions on 10 recruits out of 10 and 3 don't pan out you want to over-emphasize your "right" prediction. That's how I feel at least when I read on here.

I obviously see things differently than both of you most of the time. It's mostly because we view things from a different lens. I kind of approach things from a coaching background and you, as far as I can tell, from a basketball fan background. I'm not looking solely at wins/losses and tournament qualification as the only measure of success....but they are big measures. You guys weigh getting in the tournament is the main criteria. That's fine....it is your prerogative but you don't have to take it so personal if someone else has a different viewpoint.

I see a lot of PM is an idiot posts from you guys and he "sucks as a coach"....I also saw a "he lucked out and got into the FF" post earlier. You don't "luck out" and win 4 games in the tournament and get in the FF. You have to coach your tail off to get there....ESPECIALLY if you are doing it as a mid-major. He knows how to coach.......but I do think he has made some mistakes in recruiting...like putting his eggs in the local boy basket and going all in on the three misses early in the portal this year. I think he had the right idea but it didn't work and he got a bit of egg on his face. I think he recovered quite nicely everywhere but Center. I don't think we are quite as athletic on the wings but I think we may have improved our IQ and definitely our shooting, which I FEEL will be huge. We'll see about the rest.

My main point is, I don't know why you guys are so all in on the personal attacks on PM. That is a little baffling......but you have a right to your opinion.

Sorry for the long post but I can't post from work and I tried to make points from several previous convos all at once.
 
NorthCarolinaSooner said:
WS and WT I've been trying not to argue with recently in respect to the admin. I've actually agreed with both a few times recently.

I do feel like, at times, you go out of your way to be overly sarcastic and get rather personal in your responses. You question the intelligence of people who don't agree with you and really try hard to prove you are "right" when it comes to players who don't succeed in your mind. But, I rarely see you put positive predictions on any guys PM recruits. EVERY single coach misses on certain guys....every one. The best coaches don't have foolproof methods. It's a little easier for the guys filling up with 5 stars to be wrong but they still miss. But if you have negative predictions on 10 recruits out of 10 and 3 don't pan out you want to over-emphasize your "right" prediction. That's how I feel at least when I read on here.

I obviously see things differently than both of you most of the time. It's mostly because we view things from a different lens. I kind of approach things from a coaching background and you, as far as I can tell, from a basketball fan background. I'm not looking solely at wins/losses and tournament qualification as the only measure of success....but they are big measures. You guys weigh getting in the tournament is the main criteria. That's fine....it is your prerogative but you don't have to take it so personal if someone else has a different viewpoint.

I see a lot of PM is an idiot posts from you guys and he "sucks as a coach"....I also saw a "he lucked out and got into the FF" post earlier. You don't "luck out" and win 4 games in the tournament and get in the FF. You have to coach your tail off to get there....ESPECIALLY if you are doing it as a mid-major. He knows how to coach.......but I do think he has made some mistakes in recruiting...like putting his eggs in the local boy basket and going all in on the three misses early in the portal this year. I think he had the right idea but it didn't work and he got a bit of egg on his face. I think he recovered quite nicely everywhere but Center. I don't think we are quite as athletic on the wings but I think we may have improved our IQ and definitely our shooting, which I FEEL will be huge. We'll see about the rest.

My main point is, I don't know why you guys are so all in on the personal attacks on PM. That is a little baffling......but you have a right to your opinion.

Sorry for the long post but I can't post from work and I tried to make points from several previous convos all at once.
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I don’t know Porter Moser. Don’t have any idea whether he is a great person, horrible person, or somewhere in between. All of my thoughts about him are limited to how I think he has done as the basketball coach at Oklahoma. If he was the biggest ass in the world but succeeded as our coach, I wouldn’t criticize his coaching.

I’ve never coached basketball but I coach baseball and I know basketball extremely well. It frankly comes off as a little arrogant for you to suggest that you see the game from a more advanced and nuanced perspective just because you are a coach. Honestly, my feeling is that coaches are so protective of one another that they are almost never willing to just come out and say that someone hasn’t done a good job. They always make excuses for each other and point to external factors like fan support, arenas, NIL, facilities, etc.

It's been three years. That’s more than enough time for a coach to be fairly assessed. And it’s an eternity when it comes to building a roster in the portal age. He has had four cracks at assembling a roster now, and over 100 games to coach and show what he is about. I think our program is worse off in every way than when he was hired. Worse talent, worse results, no momentum, and nothing trending in the right direction. That’s why I don’t “like” Moser. If I’ve referred to him as an “idiot,” it’s in the context of basketball decisions. People use terms like that all the time in sports. When someone says they “hate” a player or team, people generally understand it means “sports” hate. I “hate” the Chiefs. I “hate” Derek Jeter. It should be clear what that means. Likewise, if I call Moser an idiot because I think he made a bonehead roster decision by not playing Cooper, or failing to play a style that took advantage of his team’s athleticism, it should be clear I’m not saying “I think Porter Moser as a human being has a low IQ.” I just think he is bad at his job. The people who are still supporting him have to work so hard to find reasons that he is supposedly doing a good job. We have heard about effective FG percentage. We see people state their opinion over and over that we “should” have made the tourney two or three years, and act as if that opinion is fact. The great thing about sports is that the scoreboard ultimately tells you what you need to know. And in this sport, every coach in a power conference knows that their most important task is to make the tourney. We can keep hoping that we get a different result from Moser, but at some point, isn’t it obvious that he isn’t doing the job?
 
WichitaSooner said:
I don’t know Porter Moser. Don’t have any idea whether he is a great person, horrible person, or somewhere in between. All of my thoughts about him are limited to how I think he has done as the basketball coach at Oklahoma. If he was the biggest ass in the world but succeeded as our coach, I wouldn’t criticize his coaching.

I’ve never coached basketball but I coach baseball and I know basketball extremely well. It frankly comes off as a little arrogant for you to suggest that you see the game from a more advanced and nuanced perspective just because you are a coach. Honestly, my feeling is that coaches are so protective of one another that they are almost never willing to just come out and say that someone hasn’t done a good job. They always make excuses for each other and point to external factors like fan support, arenas, NIL, facilities, etc.

It's been three years. That’s more than enough time for a coach to be fairly assessed. And it’s an eternity when it comes to building a roster in the portal age. He has had four cracks at assembling a roster now, and over 100 games to coach and show what he is about. I think our program is worse off in every way than when he was hired. Worse talent, worse results, no momentum, and nothing trending in the right direction. That’s why I don’t “like” Moser. If I’ve referred to him as an “idiot,” it’s in the context of basketball decisions. People use terms like that all the time in sports. When someone says they “hate” a player or team, people generally understand it means “sports” hate. I “hate” the Chiefs. I “hate” Derek Jeter. It should be clear what that means. Likewise, if I call Moser an idiot because I think he made a bonehead roster decision by not playing Cooper, or failing to play a style that took advantage of his team’s athleticism, it should be clear I’m not saying “I think Porter Moser as a human being has a low IQ.” I just think he is bad at his job. The people who are still supporting him have to work so hard to find reasons that he is supposedly doing a good job. We have heard about effective FG percentage. We see people state their opinion over and over that we “should” have made the tourney two or three years, and act as if that opinion is fact. The great thing about sports is that the scoreboard ultimately tells you what you need to know. And in this sport, every coach in a power conference knows that their most important task is to make the tourney. We can keep hoping that we get a different result from Moser, but at some point, isn’t it obvious that he isn’t doing the job?
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I’m not a big fan of PM. But if you want to challenge NCS in a basketball/coaching debate I would love to attend.
 
WichitaSooner said:
I don’t know Porter Moser. Don’t have any idea whether he is a great person, horrible person, or somewhere in between. All of my thoughts about him are limited to how I think he has done as the basketball coach at Oklahoma. If he was the biggest ass in the world but succeeded as our coach, I wouldn’t criticize his coaching.

I’ve never coached basketball but I coach baseball and I know basketball extremely well. It frankly comes off as a little arrogant for you to suggest that you see the game from a more advanced and nuanced perspective just because you are a coach. Honestly, my feeling is that coaches are so protective of one another that they are almost never willing to just come out and say that someone hasn’t done a good job. They always make excuses for each other and point to external factors like fan support, arenas, NIL, facilities, etc.

It's been three years. That’s more than enough time for a coach to be fairly assessed. And it’s an eternity when it comes to building a roster in the portal age. He has had four cracks at assembling a roster now, and over 100 games to coach and show what he is about. I think our program is worse off in every way than when he was hired. Worse talent, worse results, no momentum, and nothing trending in the right direction. That’s why I don’t “like” Moser. If I’ve referred to him as an “idiot,” it’s in the context of basketball decisions. People use terms like that all the time in sports. When someone says they “hate” a player or team, people generally understand it means “sports” hate. I “hate” the Chiefs. I “hate” Derek Jeter. It should be clear what that means. Likewise, if I call Moser an idiot because I think he made a bonehead roster decision by not playing Cooper, or failing to play a style that took advantage of his team’s athleticism, it should be clear I’m not saying “I think Porter Moser as a human being has a low IQ.” I just think he is bad at his job. The people who are still supporting him have to work so hard to find reasons that he is supposedly doing a good job. We have heard about effective FG percentage. We see people state their opinion over and over that we “should” have made the tourney two or three years, and act as if that opinion is fact. The great thing about sports is that the scoreboard ultimately tells you what you need to know. And in this sport, every coach in a power conference knows that their most important task is to make the tourney. We can keep hoping that we get a different result from Moser, but at some point, isn’t it obvious that he isn’t doing the job?
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LK had a .598 win % his last three years and won 20 games once
PM has a .546 win % at OU and has one 20 win season
Their SOS was very similar

One would look at those and say the success is very close. You look at it from the lens of "no tournament = no success"

I think the program has been slowly trending up but don't like missing the tournament either. We agree on that piece. I'm a little concerned about our post situation at C. I think everywhere else PM has done a decent job recruiting.

The idiot remarks are just off base and not a good look. It isn't only you......and dismissing him taking a team to the FF (not you) as pure luck because you don't like the guy just makes the person saying it look bad, not PM.

We can agree to disagree. I didn't take the time to post just to fight with you or attack you. Just to point out different viewpoints. And yes, I think looking at things from a coaching viewpoint is different...I'm not discounting your opinion...just saying I look at things a little different than casual fans. Not better or arrogantly, just differently because I've had to make a lot of the same decisions he has and know what it's like. The difference is I'm not getting paid millions to do it. LOL
 
NorthCarolinaSooner said:
LK had a .598 win % his last three years and won 20 games once
PM has a .546 win % at OU and has one 20 win season
Their SOS was very similar

One would look at those and say the success is very close. You look at it from the lens of "no tournament = no success"

I think the program has been slowly trending up but don't like missing the tournament either. We agree on that piece. I'm a little concerned about our post situation at C. I think everywhere else PM has done a decent job recruiting.

The idiot remarks are just off base and not a good look. It isn't only you......and dismissing him taking a team to the FF (not you) as pure luck because you don't like the guy just makes the person saying it look bad, not PM.

We can agree to disagree. I didn't take the time to post just to fight with you or attack you. Just to point out different viewpoints. And yes, I think looking at things from a coaching viewpoint is different...I'm not discounting your opinion...just saying I look at things a little different than casual fans. Not better or arrogantly, just differently because I've had to make a lot of the same decisions he has and know what it's like. The difference is I'm not getting paid millions to do it. LOL
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I’m anything but a casual fan. I’ve invested a TON emotionally and financially in this program since I was very young and watch every second of every game, and I know the game very well.

Again, people can cite winning percentage all they want. It is apples and oranges. Different schedules. One guy taking over a team that was coming off several tournaments in a row and the other taking over a team that was an absolute disaster both on and off the court.

I haven’t ever dismissed him making the FF. I do think it represents one season in a very long career and that it was certainly an aberration. He hasn’t sustained success. And I simply disagree that things are slowly trending up. I think that argument was somewhat feasible last year at this time when he had improved the athleticism and that did improve us from the horrible previous season, but the team collapsed in conference play, couldn’t beat good opponents, and now the roster is worse off from a talent standpoint. Every single national writer, plus all the respected advanced analytics, agree on that. The only way this team will be as good as, let alone better than, last season is if they significantly overachieve. Nothing Moser has done at OU merits confidence that will happen, so again, I’m not sure where the argument can be realistically made that things are getting better.
 
WichitaSooner said:
I’m anything but a casual fan. I’ve invested a TON emotionally and financially in this program since I was very young and watch every second of every game, and I know the game very well.

Again, people can cite winning percentage all they want. It is apples and oranges. Different schedules. One guy taking over a team that was coming off several tournaments in a row and the other taking over a team that was an absolute disaster both on and off the court.

I haven’t ever dismissed him making the FF. I do think it represents one season in a very long career and that it was certainly an aberration. He hasn’t sustained success. And I simply disagree that things are slowly trending up. I think that argument was somewhat feasible last year at this time when he had improved the athleticism and that did improve us from the horrible previous season, but the team collapsed in conference play, couldn’t beat good opponents, and now the roster is worse off from a talent standpoint. Every single national writer, plus all the respected advanced analytics, agree on that. The only way this team will be as good as, let alone better than, last season is if they significantly overachieve. Nothing Moser has done at OU merits confidence that will happen, so again, I’m not sure where the argument can be realistically made that things are getting better.
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Man, every single season is apples and oranges if you to make that argument. What I find baffling is that you talk about analytics and metrics to argue a point then you completely dismiss SOS when comparing coaches and seasons, which is EXACTLY analytics and metrics. Then use writers opinion as "facts" to prove a point? Really? You are a smart guy, surely you see the irony in that?

I agree the team collapsed in conference play, but there were 3 significant injury issues that played a factor in that. Some of it is on OM but some of it was due to stuff out of his control too. I'm not making excuses for PMs shortcomings because he has some.

Am I happy with the program as is? No

Could PM do a better job? Sure

Have there been some positives under his watch? Yes

I have some concerns but I'm also one who is gonna wait and see how we do next year before publicly wringing my hands.


I've already said PM was not my first choice in coaches but he is what we have for at least another year and there are a LOT of programs worse than ours
 
NorthCarolinaSooner said:
Man, every single season is apples and oranges if you to make that argument. What I find baffling is that you talk about analytics and metrics to argue a point then you completely dismiss SOS when comparing coaches and seasons, which is EXACTLY analytics and metrics. Then use writers opinion as "facts" to prove a point? Really? You are a smart guy, surely you see the irony in that?

I agree the team collapsed in conference play, but there were 3 significant injury issues that played a factor in that. Some of it is on OM but some of it was due to stuff out of his control too. I'm not making excuses for PMs shortcomings because he has some.

Am I happy with the program as is? No

Could PM do a better job? Sure

Have there been some positives under his watch? Yes

I have some concerns but I'm also one who is gonna wait and see how we do next year before publicly wringing my hands.


I've already said PM was not my first choice in coaches but he is what we have for at least another year and there are a LOT of programs worse than ours
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I’ve never dismissed SOS; just the opposite. I’ve said for months, even before it came to fruition, that one of his biggest failings last year was the nonconference schedule he put together. I’ve said he doesn’t deserve applause for our league SOS because he has no control over that. Now, if he actually beat the good teams in the league more than 15 percent of the time, absolutely he would deserve credit for doing well against good teams. But he hasn’t done that.

As for the writers, sure, their opinions aren’t fact. But they are people who cover the sport for a living, know the rosters of every team in the country inside and out, and unlike those of us on this board, they aren’t biased when it comes to OU. They have no personal investment in OU. When all of them, plus the analytics, show that our roster is less talented than last season, I’m going to put stock in that. And it is a fact that most of our new guys this year are coming from significantly worse conferences and were not highly coveted in the portal. We only ended up with them after we missed on all the guys Moser targeted. That tells me that even Moser didn’t view these guys as being the kind of guys he truly wanted to have to rely on this season.

The wait till the end of next season argument is an interesting one to me. Before the portal, I tended to agree with the idea that it might take four years to evaluate a coach in certain circumstances. For instance, if a coach took over a team with no recent history of making the tourney, then sure, it would take a while to build that. But now, whether you have been around two years or 20, you are basically recruiting a new roster every year. So how many “next seasons” is needed to realize that any given coach isn’t good at enough at putting together a roster, and then coaching that roster, to success?
 
WichitaSooner said:
I’ve never dismissed SOS; just the opposite. I’ve said for months, even before it came to fruition, that one of his biggest failings last year was the nonconference schedule he put together. I’ve said he doesn’t deserve applause for our league SOS because he has no control over that. Now, if he actually beat the good teams in the league more than 15 percent of the time, absolutely he would deserve credit for doing well against good teams. But he hasn’t done that.

As for the writers, sure, their opinions aren’t fact. But they are people who cover the sport for a living, know the rosters of every team in the country inside and out, and unlike those of us on this board, they aren’t biased when it comes to OU. They have no personal investment in OU. When all of them, plus the analytics, show that our roster is less talented than last season, I’m going to put stock in that. And it is a fact that most of our new guys this year are coming from significantly worse conferences and were not highly coveted in the portal. We only ended up with them after we missed on all the guys Moser targeted. That tells me that even Moser didn’t view these guys as being the kind of guys he truly wanted to have to rely on this season.

The wait till the end of next season argument is an interesting one to me. Before the portal, I tended to agree with the idea that it might take four years to evaluate a coach in certain circumstances. For instance, if a coach took over a team with no recent history of making the tourney, then sure, it would take a while to build that. But now, whether you have been around two years or 20, you are basically recruiting a new roster every year. So how many “next seasons” is needed to realize that any given coach isn’t good at enough at putting together a roster, and then coaching that roster, to success?
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Here is my problem with your arguments on here. You keep saying non conference SOS and then dismissing the overall SOS. you pick one thing to cling to and run with it. You can't compare year to year, coach to coach without being subjective....your SOS is one of the few ways and it simply says our overall SOS in the LK years vs now has been similar. That is a metric.....its measurable. You say a writers opinion/view is a metric and they are human...no way there isn't SOME bias in every writer....noone is completely non-biased. Plus you honestly think that these guys watch every game and know every roster inside and out for 150-200 teams or more? You aren't that naive.

I've said ad nauseum that I am not pleased with where we are but PM isn't getting fired before next season. We have what we have. So, I'll ride with PM until then. If he makes the tournament next year we'll see if he's still here. As far as recruiting, I think PM made a mistake going all in on the OK kids early...I think there was some desperation involved and probably rightfully so....and, like I said, I think our G/wing recruiting is ok....the post recruiting I don't get and that's one of the things that puzzles me and I lay that on the staff.
 
WichitaSooner said:
It frankly comes off as a little arrogant for you to suggest that you see the game from a more advanced and nuanced perspective just because you are a coach. Honestly, my feeling is that coaches are so protective of one another that they are almost never willing to just come out and say that someone hasn’t done a good job. They always make excuses for each other and point to external factors like fan support, arenas, NIL, facilities, etc.
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I’m sure you take it well and with an open mind when a soccer coach tries to tell you how baseball works.

Arrogance is you not seeing how ignorant that statement sounds to people that actually do coach or have coached the sport.
 
cmdsooner said:
I’m sure you take it well and with an open mind when a soccer coach tries to tell you how baseball works.

Arrogance is you not seeing how ignorant that statement sounds to people that actually do coach or have coached the sport.
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If someone tries to discuss baseball with me and it is clear they know what they are talking about, I don't care whether they are a coach. There are plenty of non-coaches who know a given sport very well. And there are plenty of coaches who don't know much and just get involved because their kid plays.

The stuff I criticize Moser for is big picture stuff. I am not suggesting that I would be qualified to draw up specific plays. But I have absolutely watched enough basketball to fully grasp big picture stuff. The one from last season that I keep coming back to, and that no one has offered any reasonable explanation for, is this: we had three or four very athletic wings. We had no one at the 5 who was a shot blocker or rim protector. He spent so much time hyping his "DCO" crap -- even made it into a shirt. And that SHOULD have been how we played. I am not saying press 94 feet for 40 minutes, but play aggressively and use Moore, Soares, and Oweh to really pressure the ball and try to force turnovers. Instead, we sat back and played an incredibly passive style. That, in turn, created very few turnovers, and forced us to always have to try and score in our halfcourt offense, which was, to put it kindly, not good once we got in league play. So, do I need to have coached to be able to see that he didn't put us in the best position to be successful in that regard? We had a roster with several lengthy, run and jump athletes, but he coached as if he had a team full of 6'0" guards who were slow and unathletic and needed to just try to be fundamentally sound.

Another issue: it took way too long to move Soares into the starting lineup. If we had a good starting lineup and Soares was coming off the bench to be a great sixth man and lead the second unit, that's one thing. But we had been getting off to slow starts, and getting awful play from Oweh, for several weeks before he finally made the move after the second OSU game. And he has made that mistake in prior seasons -- he kept giving Jacob too many minutes last season through a stretch where he was absolutely brutal. This isn't the NBA where you have 82 games and every decent team makes the playoffs, so you can afford to let guys play through slumps. When you are a bubble team, you can't wait a month before adjusting. Again, the fact that I haven't earned a paycheck coaching doesn't mean that I don't understand the game well enough to see things like this.
 
WichitaSooner said:
If someone tries to discuss baseball with me and it is clear they know what they are talking about, I don't care whether they are a coach. There are plenty of non-coaches who know a given sport very well. And there are plenty of coaches who don't know much and just get involved because their kid plays.

The stuff I criticize Moser for is big picture stuff. I am not suggesting that I would be qualified to draw up specific plays. But I have absolutely watched enough basketball to fully grasp big picture stuff. The one from last season that I keep coming back to, and that no one has offered any reasonable explanation for, is this: we had three or four very athletic wings. We had no one at the 5 who was a shot blocker or rim protector. He spent so much time hyping his "DCO" crap -- even made it into a shirt. And that SHOULD have been how we played. I am not saying press 94 feet for 40 minutes, but play aggressively and use Moore, Soares, and Oweh to really pressure the ball and try to force turnovers. Instead, we sat back and played an incredibly passive style. That, in turn, created very few turnovers, and forced us to always have to try and score in our halfcourt offense, which was, to put it kindly, not good once we got in league play. So, do I need to have coached to be able to see that he didn't put us in the best position to be successful in that regard? We had a roster with several lengthy, run and jump athletes, but he coached as if he had a team full of 6'0" guards who were slow and unathletic and needed to just try to be fundamentally sound.

Another issue: it took way too long to move Soares into the starting lineup. If we had a good starting lineup and Soares was coming off the bench to be a great sixth man and lead the second unit, that's one thing. But we had been getting off to slow starts, and getting awful play from Oweh, for several weeks before he finally made the move after the second OSU game. And he has made that mistake in prior seasons -- he kept giving Jacob too many minutes last season through a stretch where he was absolutely brutal. This isn't the NBA where you have 82 games and every decent team makes the playoffs, so you can afford to let guys play through slumps. When you are a bubble team, you can't wait a month before adjusting. Again, the fact that I haven't earned a paycheck coaching doesn't mean that I don't understand the game well enough to see things like this.
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I never said you don't know anything about basketball. I did say you had a right to your opinions about PM and that we view it different.

One thing sticks out to me though. This isn't about you but about coaching specifically. It is one career where people criticize your every move, often in hindsight.....alot of men coach their kids little league baseball, little league football, soccer, basketball, etc and think that this qualifies them as a coach on the same level and that they know everything about coaching because it's "simple"....I'm not saying you but giving an example....I'll tell you this...someone who coaches a basketball team at their local YMCA is NOT in the same stratosphere in decisions and coaching...it isn't even the same thing.

I never said you didn't have any basketball knowledge but I absolutely think that you look at PMs decisions and coaching differently than I do.....i think some of your questions have some validity at times but some I don't. You think of my views that same way. Oh well.
 
NorthCarolinaSooner said:
I never said you don't know anything about basketball. I did say you had a right to your opinions about PM and that we view it different.

One thing sticks out to me though. This isn't about you but about coaching specifically. It is one career where people criticize your every move, often in hindsight.....alot of men coach their kids little league baseball, little league football, soccer, basketball, etc and think that this qualifies them as a coach on the same level and that they know everything about coaching because it's "simple"....I'm not saying you but giving an example....I'll tell you this...someone who coaches a basketball team at their local YMCA is NOT in the same stratosphere in decisions and coaching...it isn't even the same thing.

I never said you didn't have any basketball knowledge but I absolutely think that you look at PMs decisions and coaching differently than I do.....i think some of your questions have some validity at times but some I don't. You think of my views that same way. Oh well.
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And for the record, I don't mind this discussion with you at all. I don't think you are coming at me personally. I am perfectly fine disagreeing on things with people. It is the folks who reflexively resort to "LOL" or "we get it, you hate Moser more than OU" and "you cheer against OU" who offer nothing to the board and are just trying to get a reaction.

I will say, my thoughts are rarely hindsight. I called out the noncon months before the committee left us out largely because of that, in combination with our poor conference results. I also said before last season started that I didn't trust that we would play at a particularly fast pace once we started playing good teams, no matter how much more athletic we were. And when I watch games, I watch/think like a coach -- I stress about fundamental mistakes and mental errors even if we are up 10 because I know those things usually come back to cost you later in the game. That's one of the things that has bothered me the past three seasons -- we make more careless/sloppy mistakes than a good team should, and more than a well-coached team should. Every team makes them, but you shouldn't keep making the same mistakes over and over.

Most of the pro teams I cheer for have been bad to awful for most of the last decade (or two), but I actually think in many of those years, the coach/manager has done a good job with the talent he has. So I am not one to automatically blame the coach. I just genuinely believe that Moser has done a bad job at the things that a coach should be able to control, and I have many of the same concerns about Venables. It just so happens that both those guys are coaching OU at the same time. For the vast majority of my fandom, both those programs have had good/great coaches.
 
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