Moser denies ND rumors

WichitaSooner said:
N

But hey, he sighed two high school kids who may help us by 2025, assuming they stick around and defy the trend of players not improving under his coaching. So sure, let’s give him 10 years or so to really get his system implemented, and maybe he will produce a couple good years like he did at Loyola.
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Yep...that's the ticket... we are all wanting to give him 10 years. Good grief man. In this same thread I said he should be gone if we miss the tourny again next year. I'd be fine if he left after this year. But reasonable people can look at what he inherited at OU and realize it is a rebuild. But but but isu and ksu! lol
 
WichitaSooner said:
Now do KSU. And ISU heading into last year. How about Missouri? If Moser had inherited only Gibson, and the team hadn’t made the tournament in multiple years and had just finished well below .500, that would be equivalent to the situations the two Big 12 schools found themselves in.
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You conveniently leave out Texas Tech, LSU, Virginia Tech, etc...

Cherry picking to fit a narrative is fun. Where there is a Tang, there is the complete opposite of him many times over.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
This is all you ever come back with lol. KSU!!!! ISU!!!!
As I said numerous times before...KSU and ISU are outliers. To expect any team to do what they did is unreasonable....unless you have a certain bias already...
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Wake Forest. Pitt. Missouri. Plenty of schools have completely turned their programs around by making smart moves in the portal.

My bias is that I dislike bad, losing basketball. Again, I was pro-Moser, so my inclination was to want to see the positives for much of last season. My vision isn't good enough to see any positives now. Just ugly loss after ugly loss, stagnant possession after stagnant possession, all while every other team in the conference gets better.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Wake Forest. Pitt. Missouri. Plenty of schools have completely turned their programs around by making smart moves in the portal.
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Wait what?

WF went from 35th to 74th in KenPom...

Ah, you are counting 2 years...so then sure, that does improve from 2020. I didnt realize we are counting 2 years.
 
WichitaSooner said:
Wake Forest. Pitt. Missouri. Plenty of schools have completely turned their programs around by making smart moves in the portal.

My bias is that I dislike bad, losing basketball. Again, I was pro-Moser, so my inclination was to want to see the positives for much of last season. My vision isn't good enough to see any positives now. Just ugly loss after ugly loss, stagnant possession after stagnant possession, all while every other team in the conference gets better.
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I don't study every team but I can assure you that for every portal successful turnaround, there is a portal failure.

And just as quickly as you "turn around" a program, it can fall apart in one season.

Relying on the portal isn't turning around a program. you have to build a program and that isn't done in one year.

So yeah, KSU and ISU have done great. they could just as easily fall flat next year.
 
TEvans4Three said:
Wait what?

WF went from 35th to 74th in KenPom...

Ah, you are counting 2 years...so then sure, that does improve from 2020. I didnt realize we are counting 2 years.
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he will count whatever helps his narrative and preconceived opinions
 
also, what's funny about Wake forrest is they turned it around because of a portal from OU that LK wouldn't play...which again helps support my position that Moser inherited a rebuild
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
also, what's funny about Wake forrest is they turned it around because of a portal from OU that LK wouldn't play...which again helps support my position that Moser inherited a rebuild
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Alondes Williams would not have fit with what Moser wants to do offensively.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
That doesn't mean it wasn't a loss of talent. And evidently he wasn't a fit for what LK wanted to do either.
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He actually was, but was a JUCO that didn't play defense and had trouble adjusting to D1. I think he was figuring it out and would have take AR's role, just wouldn't have been as ball dominant.
 
SoonerBounce13 said:
I don't study every team but I can assure you that for every portal successful turnaround, there is a portal failure.

And just as quickly as you "turn around" a program, it can fall apart in one season.

Relying on the portal isn't turning around a program. you have to build a program and that isn't done in one year.

So yeah, KSU and ISU have done great. they could just as easily fall flat next year.
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ISU has already done it for two straight years. I don't understand why so many people keep acting as if they are on the edge of dropping off a cliff. They also have a true identity, which we clearly lack.

Also -- I would rather have one good year and one bad year than nothing but bad seasons, which is where Moser is trending.
 
59 new coaches in 2021-22 season.

Of those I isolated the coaches that coached for decent programs...not ArkPB or Winthrop. So below is the list of those coaches and their results.

Team Current coach Since Rank 2021 Rank 2022 Rank 2023 Improved Since 2021?
Arizona Wildcats, Tommy Lloyd, 29, 17-9, 5, 33-4, 13, 22-4, Yes
Boston College Eagles, Earl Grant, 148, 4-16, 114, 13-20, 192, 12-14, No
Central Michigan Chippewas, Tony Barbee, 281, 7-16, 318, 7-23, 316, 9-16, No
Cincinnati Bearcats, Wes Miller, 116, 12-11, 101, 18-15, 62, 17-9, Yes
DePaul Blue Demons, Tony Stubblefield, 141, 5-14, 103, 15-16, 141, 9-16, Push
George Mason Patriots, Kim English, 142, 13-9, 113, 14-16, 154, 14-12, No
Indiana Hoosiers, Mike Woodson, 50, 12-15, 48, 21-14, 19, 18-7, Yes
Iowa State Cyclones, T. J. Otzelberger, 171, 2-22, 43, 22-13, 18, 16-8, Yes
Marquette Golden Eagles, Shaka Smart, 83, 13-14, 56, 19-13, 12, 20-6, Yes
Minnesota Golden Gophers, Ben Johnson, 62, 14-15, 109, 13-17, 224, 7-16, No
North Carolina Tar Heels, Hubert Davis, 34, 18-11, 16, 29-10, 38, 16-10, No
Oklahoma Sooners, Porter Moser, 39, 16-11, 30, 19-16, 64, 12-13, No
Penn State Nittany Lions, Micah Shrewsberry, 40, 11-14, 88, 14-17, 55, 14-11, No
Texas Longhorns, Chris Beard, 26, 19-8, 15, 22-12, 9, 20-6, Yes
Texas Tech Red Raiders, Mark Adams, 17, 18-11, 7, 27-10, 63, 14-12, No
UNLV Runnin' Rebels, Kevin Kruger, 176, 12-15, 90, 18-14, 85, 16-9, Yes
Utah Utes, Craig Smith, 44, 12-13, 122, 11-20, 46, 17-9, No
Utah State Aggies, Ryan Odom, 46, 20-9, 60, 18-16, 42, 19-7, Yes

Essentially, of the 2-year coaches, only 5 of 18 have improved from their 2021 ranking.
 
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WichitaSooner said:
ISU has already done it for two straight years. I don't understand why so many people keep acting as if they are on the edge of dropping off a cliff. They also have a true identity, which we clearly lack.

Also -- I would rather have one good year and one bad year than nothing but bad seasons, which is where Moser is trending.
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ISU is an exception, not a rule.

Also, 30th in KenPom is not a bad year. So, you got your wish with Moser.
 
WichitaSooner said:
ISU has already done it for two straight years. I don't understand why so many people keep acting as if they are on the edge of dropping off a cliff. They also have a true identity, which we clearly lack.

Also -- I would rather have one good year and one bad year than nothing but bad seasons, which is where Moser is trending.
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Nobody is saying they will drop off a cliff. But it is possible. and hypothetically if they do and have 2 bad seasons in a row will you be screaming for them to fire their coach?

That's the point, you aren't being rational. 1.5 years (of success or failure)isn't long enough to determine if a coach will be successful long term

I don't know how many times a coach has come in an lit the world on fire (Kliff Kingsbury comes to mind) only to watch them falter and prove their successful years were an outlier
 
There are undeniably programs that don't achieve a quick turnaround; there are obviously some teams that do. How is it unreasonable for a fan to be frustrated when his team is in the former camp? Especially when our team is significantly worse in the second season under the new coach, to the point of being noncompetitive in game after game.

Even less talented teams can be well-coached; they can play strong defense, limit mistakes and be efficient on the offensive side. That won't always be enough, if there's a talent deficiency, but it's not too much to ask, in my view. I don't think anyone could argue that Coach Moser is getting the most out of the talent he has on hand.

The other factor, of course, whether a coach brings in as much talent as he should have during his tenure. I think there's room for differing opinions on that one in Moser's case, but I would say no, he hasn't. I'm hopeful on the high school side (it remains to be a. whether these players stick around and b. how they pan out), but am disappointed with Moser's middling (at best) results in the portal, which is, like it or not, now a key factor in college hoops.
 
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Also, Iowa State is 7-5 right now. they have TUC, KSU, Texas, and baylor left. They may only get 2 more wins (ou and wvu). we will see how it plays out but is 7-11 and 9-9 really something to keep bragging about? If they keep progressing that is great. But if they stay around the middle of the league will you cool off on them? You act like they are a top tier team right now and they aren't. It is quite a feat to go from 0-18 to 9-9 in two years. we will see what htey do going forward
 
skyvue said:
There are undeniably programs that don't achieve a quick turnaround; there are obviously some teams that do. How is it unreasonable for a fan to be frustrated when his team is in the former camp?
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It is fine to be frustrated but you have to also be reasonable. sometimes the difference in a successful season and a bad one is one player. And if you miss on one portal player it can make all the difference. call it an excuse if you want but it is reality.

Also it is important to note that people were unreasonably frustrated when we were still a top 40 kenpom team (like last year) and losing close games. So this criticism isn't just coming up since the last 2 weeks when obviously the team has fell flat on their face. 2 weeks ago I think you could make an argument that we had not regressed from last year. Now? It is easy to see we have but I think it is because the team quite after the emotional close loses. That is 100% on PM. It is up to him to get them to finish the season strong. If they don't show some fight his days are numbered. If they show that he hasn't completely lost the locker room, there is room for some optimism albeit just a little
 
  • Capel has Pitt at 18-7 and is leading candidate for ACC Coach of the Year
  • Sampson has Houston at 23-2 and #2 in the nation and is leading candidate for AAC and National Coach of the year
  • Kevin Kruger is 16-9 at UNLV

OU is 12-13 and in a total nose dive
 
thebigabd said:
  • Capel has Pitt at 18-7 and is leading candidate for ACC Coach of the Year
  • Sampson has Houston at 23-2 and #2 in the nation and is leading candidate for AAC and National Coach of the year
  • Kevin Kruger is 16-9 at UNLV

OU is 12-13 and in a total nose dive
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You put OU in those conferences and PM would look good too.

ACC is terrible. Pitt is barely ahead of us in Kenpom
OU would be a top team in Houston's conference
UNLV is well below OU in kenpom

What is your point?
 
skyvue said:
There are undeniably programs that don't achieve a quick turnaround; there are obviously some teams that do. How is it unreasonable for a fan to be frustrated when his team is in the former camp? Especially when our team is significantly worse in the second season under the new coach, to the point of being noncompetitive in game after game.

Even less talented teams can be well-coached; they can play strong defense, limit mistakes and be efficient on the offensive side. That won't always be enough, if there's a talent deficiency, but it's not too much to ask, in my view. I don't think anyone could argue that Coach Moser is getting the most out of the talent he has on hand.

The other factor, of course, whether a coach brings in as much talent as he should have during his tenure. I think there's room for differing opinions on that one in Moser's case, but I would say no, he hasn't. I'm hopeful on the high school side (it remains to be a. whether these players stick around and b. how they pan out), but am disappointed with Moser's middling (at best) results in the portal, which is, like it or not, now a key factor in college hoops.
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This is where I am. I would've understood if PM didn't make the tournament the last 2 years if he was truly going the high school route and doing the actual rebuilding. But OU has mostly started 3 portal guys & our main backup big as a portal the past 2 years.

So if you're going the high school route why not keep Gibson, develop Uzan as the future pg, and play Oweh, Schroeder, Cortes, & CJ? Then you could over recruit some people, grab a transfer or 2 to be key guys and develop from there. Then regressing the 2nd season could be a little more understandable since you're playing young guys big minutes. But as it shows, OU is one of the teams that has the most portal transfers, which should lead to more immediate success than long term.

I think Moser should absolutely get a 3rd year, 2 years is not enough. My biggest concern is the lack of development. Getting Sherfield, Bam, Godwin, and Kieta are not upgrades by themselves over what OU lost, but that's on Moser for choosing to replace them with portal guys. If you're going to do that after missing the tournament you need to get better players, duh. But the fact that only 2 returning players (Cortes & Hill) have improved some is concerning. The returning players improvement should have made this team better than last year, not worse.
 
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