NBA Draft 2010

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Cheno said:
I'm not a Lakers fan. In fact, I'm a Celtics fan. I'm not a Kobe fan. I think he's the best player in the world that's about it. Don't like him as a person.

That being said I think it's ridiculous someone would call him a rapist.

I'm not exonerrating anyone. Nobody will ever know.
But the facts in the case lean to the fact there was no rape.
What facts make him a rapist?
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Bingo....

Now if you want to call him an adulterer then thats fine...or just a human being, since that is a pretty common offense...

Glad we arent all judged by society at the level Kobe has, if so, the majority would be in trouble...
 
Cheno said:
I'm not a Lakers fan. In fact, I'm a Celtics fan. I'm not a Kobe fan. I think he's the best player in the world that's about it. Don't like him as a person.

That being said I think it's ridiculous someone would call him a rapist.

I'm not exonerrating anyone. Nobody will ever know.
But the facts in the case lean to the fact there was no rape.
What facts make him a rapist?
Click to expand...


I am not saying he is a rapist. I am questioning you branding the woman an extortionist. Plenty of rape victims cannot handle a trial, especially when the alleged rapist is a powerful individual. I am not saying that this is what happened. I am saying that this is just as likely as her extorting money from Kobe. I find it interesting that you so vehemently go after someone calling Kobe a rapist, but you have no qualms impugning the character of his accuser.
 
boksooner said:
I am not saying he is a rapist. I am questioning you branding the woman an extortionist. Plenty of rape victims cannot handle a trial, especially when the alleged rapist is a powerful individual. I am not saying that this is what happened. I am saying that this is just as likely as her extorting money from Kobe. I find it interesting that you so vehemently go after someone calling Kobe a rapist, but you have no qualms impugning the character of his accuser.
Click to expand...

maybe it is because it was well documented her sexual encounters immediately after the time she accuses Kobe of rape...

I do agree that most victims cannot handle a trial, and if none of this other evidence came up we would have probably seen a longer trial that came to an actual decision...but you have to admit, it does look more like extortion than rape...

IMO, she either was raped and with the pressure and added evidence against her knew she couldnt win...or he did not do it, and when the additional evidence came out she knew she better just get what she could and run...either way, no one except those two will ever know what happened that night...

So like i said before, they guy is at minimum an adulterer...hopefully he has asked God for forgiveness and moved on with his life and marriage unlike his critics...
 
Edmond_Sooner said:
maybe it is because it was well documented her sexual encounters immediately after the time she accuses Kobe of rape...

I do agree that most victims cannot handle a trial, and if none of this other evidence came up we would have probably seen a longer trial that came to an actual decision...but you have to admit, it does look more like extortion than rape...

IMO, she either was raped and with the pressure and added evidence against her knew she couldnt win...or he did not do it, and when the additional evidence came out she knew she better just get what she could and run...either way, no one except those two will ever know what happened that night...

So like i said before, they guy is at minimum an adulterer...hopefully he has asked God for forgiveness and moved on with his life and marriage unlike his critics...
Click to expand...

This is my point exactly. I don't think it is fair to call Kobe a rapist, but I think it is hypocritical to defend him by ripping his accuser. Blaming the victim is a tactic that powerful men have used for centuries, when accused of rape. "She wanted it." "She is promiscuous." "She dressed provocative." "She knew what she was getting into, when she went up stairs." "She told her friend she was going to hookup with a celebrity."

None of that matters if she said no. Only two people know what happened. And neither of them is Cheno.
 
Cheno said:
I don't know why one of her good friends went out against her and said that.
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And, you know, for certain, the quality of the friendship and that the motives of the "friend" were pure?

When people want to believe one thing or another, they are willing to dismiss some things and give more credibility to others. On the one hand, you give the friend's statement weight, but dismiss Kobe's statement that he now knows that the girl did not think it was consensual.
 
boksooner said:
I am not saying he is a rapist.
Click to expand...
But you're not saying he's not. You're not defending his liberties against those that call him a rapist. Only those that call her an extortionist.

I find it interesting that you so vehemently go after someone calling Kobe a rapist, but you have no qualms impugning the character of his accuser.
Click to expand...
Her good friend said that. I didn't make it up. Another friend said that. I didn't make it up. Half a dozen people heard her bragging about it at a party. I'm not making that up.

This is my point exactly. I don't think it is fair to call Kobe a rapist,
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Great. Thanks for saying that.

None of that matters if she said no. Only two people know what happened. And neither of them is Cheno.
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I don't know. None of us do. So why are we even talking about it?
And just because someone says no doesn't make it rape.

And, you know, for certain, the quality of the friendship and that the motives of the "friend" were pure?
Click to expand...
No, I don't. Do you know that they weren't?
What about the other friend that said the girl was at a party bragging about having sex with Kobe? What about the 5 people at the party who told NBC that she was bragging and gesturing to the size of Kobe's "part" and they couldn't believe how she was acting?
I don't know why half a dozen people would lie. Again, nobody knows for sure. So why even discuss it? If we're going to discuss it I go with by what rationally sounds to be true. To me the facts that are out there say he didn't rape her.

On the one hand, you give the friend's statement weight, but dismiss Kobe's statement that he now knows that the girl did not think it was consensual.
Click to expand...
I don't dismiss that at all. But he after the civil case was settled he released the statement. He said he NOW believes she didn't think it was consensual. At the time he thought it was consensual. So how is that rape?
Nobody knows what really happened so why even discuss it? Why randomly in a thread not about the case throw out that Kobe Bryant is a rapist.
That's ridiculous.
 
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One of the most pathetic things I have ever read.
 
Cheno said:
And just because someone says no doesn't make it rape.


No, I don't. Do you know that they weren't?


I don't dismiss that at all. But he after the civil case was settled he released the statement. He said he NOW believes she didn't think it was consensual. At the time he thought it was consensual. So how is that rape?
Nobody knows what really happened so why even discuss it? Why randomly in a thread not about the case throw out that Kobe Bryant is a rapist.
That's ridiculous.
Click to expand...

When someone says no, and the other person ignores it, what exactly does that make it?

Of course I don't know that they weren't. Then again, I haven't made a determination about the "facts".

The point about him believing it was consensual and her believing it was not, means that she didn't trap him for money. I don't know if that is true or not, but to downplay his statement and say that he just said it for the sake of the settlement, and then to put such trust in the friend's statement, smacks of bias.

I'm still discussing it, primarily because you questioned my motives in my original posts.

Finally, it is absolutely ridiculous to call Kobe a rapist.
 
This hasn't been about the draft for the last 2 or 3 pages. It should have been locked when Rape vs not Rape Kobe was brought up. This was about 5 or 6 years ago and Kobe's image still hasn't been healed completely and will never be completely healed from it. But we need to just stay out of stuff we really don't know much about.
 
Once again a statement is taken out of context.
I apologize for any confusion. But it's not as simple as someone says No and then you're a rapist. There needs to be another act after that point.

Shooterms said:
When someone says no, and the other person ignores it, what exactly does that make it?
Click to expand...

What about when a girl says no, then the guys stops.
Is that rape? Should he go to jail?
Where did I say anything about ignoring it?
Because it's logical that Kobe didn't ignore it. The act never was completed. Both sides said that. They stopped and she left even asking for an autograph. Her boss saw her shortly after and said she wasn't visibly shaken at all.

Once again, just because a man or the women say NO or says STOP doesn't mean a rape was committed. It's only if then the opposite sex continues against their will.
By the evidence in this case if anything that sounds like what very easily could have happened and why no criminal charges were brought against him and why it was settled. Who knows.

Finally, it is absolutely ridiculous to call Kobe a rapist.
Click to expand...

I agree. Don't know why the original poster went there.
 
Just stop, Cheno. Please. You were not taken out of context. No one was claiming it's rape if a woman says no and then no more sexual intercourse takes place. It cannot plausibly be argued that we all should have known that's what you were trying to say.

You keep saying that no one knows what happened except for the two people in that room, and then going on to expend a whole lot of energy arguing that he did not rape her. Who are you trying to convince? NO ONE in this thread is still arguing that Kobe Bryant is a rapist. It is the position of everyone still participating in this thread that no one can really know what went on -- a position you claim to hold! -- and yet here you keep going on and on about how he didn't rape her.

Why don't you just say what you obviously think? That he didn't rape her, that she was a lying money-grubber, and that anyone who is ambivalent on what happened that night is a dumb rube with no common sense who cannot possibly know the facts of the case.
 
Cheno said:
My fault. At some point you'd think common sense would kick in.
I was forgetting some people don't know the facts of the case.
Click to expand...

And....now you've lost all credibility. This has nothing to do with "common sense" and to pretend that the people arguing with you don't have any, is ridiculous. You are right, some people don't know the facts of the case. Those people include everyone who was not in that room that night.

When you find yourself in a hole, your first order of business should be to stop digging.
 
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