Obaseki and A&M

[CoachTalk]

Just shut up. Civilized conversation or hit the road. Take a break from messages boards or something.

Not a eggplant measuring contest!

 

[BCSooners]

You tried to compare Lon to KS because he only won 20 games the year after Hollis left...and won conference the year after that. Your argument shot itself in the foot. Nothing else needs to be said.

But it was a decline from his final 4 year. You said a program is in a decline if the last 4 years weren’t as good as the peak since it’s the definition of a decline. I also made the argument LK would win 20+ games almost every year if the Big12 was weaker & he scheduled an easier non-con. Do you feel OU should fire a coach after making the tournament 3 years in a row?

 

[WaymanFan]

But it was a decline from his final 4 year. You said a program is in a decline if the last 4 years weren’t as good as the peak since it’s the definition of a decline.

Well, then pretty much every coach from a non-blue-blood school would fall into that "decline" category if he stuck around for a few years after his peak run. Either a coach leaves for a better job when on top, or he sticks around and eventually declines at his current school. I can probably list about 200 coaches who fit that category if I had a few hours. For now, I'll just list a dozen guys from the Big 8 / Big 12 off the top of my head who were VERY SUCCESSFUL over the course of their careers which met the inevitable "decline" criteria. If Scott Drew sticks around long enough, you can add his name to the list.

Jack Hartman
Norm Stewart
Billy Tubbs
Kelvin Sampson (probably the least decline on this list)
Lon Kruger
Bruce Drake
Rick Barnes
Tom Penders
Dick Harp (blue blood)
Ted Owens (blue blood)
Henry Iba
Bobby Knight

 

[Speedy17]

Well, then pretty much every coach from a non-blue-blood school would fall into that "decline" category if he stuck around for a few years after his peak run. Either a coach leaves for a better job when on top, or he sticks around and eventually declines at his current school. I can probably list about 200 coaches who fit that category if I had a few hours. For now, I'll just list a dozen guys from the Big 8 / Big 12 off the top of my head who were VERY SUCCESSFUL over the course of their careers which met the inevitable "decline" criteria. If Scott Drew sticks around long enough, you can add his name to the list.

Jack Hartman
Norm Stewart
Billy Tubbs
Kelvin Sampson (probably the least decline on this list)
Lon Kruger
Bruce Drake
Rick Barnes
Tom Penders
Dick Harp (blue blood)
Ted Owens (blue blood)
Henry Iba
Bobby Knight

Using the criteria set above, even John Wooden declined because he lost to NC State in the Final Four in 1974. That ended a streak of seven national titles. It most definitely fits that definition of decline. They should have fired him before he got off the court. Of course, he came back to win another natty in 1975.

 

[WTSooner]

But it was a decline from his final 4 year. You said a program is in a decline if the last 4 years weren’t as good as the peak since it’s the definition of a decline. I also made the argument LK would win 20+ games almost every year if the Big12 was weaker & he scheduled an easier non-con. Do you feel OU should fire a coach after making the tournament 3 years in a row?

You are trying to make his comment say something he never intended to say.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Kelvin vs Lon discussion, but if you can't see the differences in the programs in the years after the FF appearances, I can't help you.

 

[steverocks35]

And I thought the covid-19 debate was contentious :ez-roll:

 

[BCSooners]

Well, then pretty much every coach from a non-blue-blood school would fall into that "decline" category if he stuck around for a few years after his peak run. Either a coach leaves for a better job when on top, or he sticks around and eventually declines at his current school. I can probably list about 200 coaches who fit that category if I had a few hours. For now, I'll just list a dozen guys from the Big 8 / Big 12 off the top of my head who were VERY SUCCESSFUL over the course of their careers which met the inevitable "decline" criteria. If Scott Drew sticks around long enough, you can add his name to the list.

Jack Hartman
Norm Stewart
Billy Tubbs
Kelvin Sampson (probably the least decline on this list)
Lon Kruger
Bruce Drake
Rick Barnes
Tom Penders
Dick Harp (blue blood)
Ted Owens (blue blood)
Henry Iba
Bobby Knight

That’s the point I was making.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Just shut up. Civilized conversation or hit the road. Take a break from messages boards or something.

Not a eggplant measuring contest!

I was thinking zucchini. The purple just throws me off.

 

[BCSooners]

You are trying to make his comment say something he never intended to say.

I'm not trying to turn this into a Kelvin vs Lon discussion, but if you can't see the differences in the programs in the years after the FF appearances, I can't help you.

I do see the difference. I just used KS because it was a reference that would be obvious to make. I was given the dictionary definition of a decline when I said LK has went to 3 straight tourneys & in the last 9 years has had better success or equal success than Buzz. So that’s why I used a KS, Duke, & other outrageous references to show if you use the dictionary definition of decline then that would eventually include everybody.

 

[Eielson]

But it was a decline from his final 4 year. You said a program is in a decline if the last 4 years weren’t as good as the peak since it’s the definition of a decline.

His last four years have been a decline compared to the PREVIOUS four years. Stop trying to twist this around. Take the Final 4 year out and it's still a decline.

I also made the argument LK would win 20+ games almost every year if the Big12 was weaker & he scheduled an easier non-con. Do you feel OU should fire a coach after making the tournament 3 years in a row?

Again, read the original post. I said I'd rather play for Buzz -- I didn't say fire Lon, although I wouldn't be even slightly dissapointed if he retired.

 

[BCSooners]

His last four years have been a decline compared to the PREVIOUS four years. Stop trying to twist this around. Take the Final 4 year out and it's still a decline.



Again, read the original post. I said I'd rather play for Buzz -- I didn't say fire Lon, although I wouldn't be even slightly dissapointed if he retired.

Take the FF year out? Why do you have to take a great year away from a coach to make your point?

Ok you’d rather play for Buzz...why? What does he do systematically that fits your abilities?

 

[Soonerinkc]

Take the FF year out? Why do you have to take a great year away from a coach to make your point?

Ok you’d rather play for Buzz...why? What does he do systematically that fits your abilities?

I’m a 6’1 post... who occasionally can pull out and hit a 3....I think that fits his style.

 

[Eielson]

Take the FF year out? Why do you have to take a great year away from a coach to make your point?

Reread that post. I don't think you understood. Taking out the Final 4 weakens my point about the past 4 years being a decline, and yet my point would still be valid.