Obaseki and A&M

[BCSooners]

next yr's "class" isn't even in top 100...with one 6' kid....and now another 'ship available we'll see.

Harmon can turn out pretty good..
Victor? dude has NO OFFENSIVE skills at all..
Hill will be a journey-man type of kid. He hustles, can get a board here and there but doesn't look like the "take the game over" type of guy so far..
Garang - no clue
Rick - has size...we'll see

I expect both scholarships to be used on transfers.

 

[Speedy17]

Fair enough, I missed that.

Doesn't chance my response though. OU might have been down when LK took over, but it's still OU. VT has been a mess of a program for a LONG TIME. They made the Dance ONE time since 1996 until Buzz took them to three straight from 2017-2019. Let me put that another way.....before Buzz took them to three straight, the span, in years, since they last went to three was 1986-2007.

So just comparing the two programs for 5 years, doesn't really say much. And I'll say it again, the ACC is by far the toughest and deepest basketball conference in America.

So yes. I was more impressed with what Buzz did at VT than what Lon has done at OU.

Come on man, you must be living back in the early days when Dean Smith was coaching at Carolina. The data does NOT show the ACC as the toughest and deepest conference in America. It is not even close.

Here are the Final RPI Ratings of the conferences.

2020 RPI
1. Big East
2. Big 12
3. PAC 12
4. Big Ten
5. SEC
6. ACC

2019 RPI
1. Big 12
2. Big Ten
3. ACC
4. SEC
5. Big East
6. American

2018 RPI
1. Big 12
2. Big East
3. ACC
4. SEC
5. Big Ten
6. PAC 12

2017 RPI
1. ACC
2. Big 12
3. Big East
4. Big Ten
5. SEC
6. PAC 12

2016 RPI
1. Big 12
2. ACC
3. PAC 12
4. Big East
5. Big Ten
6. SEC

If we give each conference points - 1st-6pts, 2nd-5pts, 3rd-4pts, 4th-3pts, 5th-2pts, and 6th-1pt

1. Big 12 - 28 Points
2T. ACC - 20 Points
2T. Big East - 20 Points
4. Big Ten - 15 Points
5. SEC - 11 Points
6. PAC 12 - 10 Points
7. American - 1 Point

 

[Eielson]

Wow this is never an argument that is valid unless it’s a coach’s first 4 years to show growth or last 4 years to show decline.

Well it's his last 4 years I'm talking about, so....

 

[Speedy17]

Well it's his last 4 years I'm talking about, so....

Except for the fact that he has not declined. He was the #3 seed in the Big 12 Tourney and was going to the Dance.

 

[Eielson]

It is opinion to say he had a harder turnaround at vt than Lon had at ou under probation and lost scholarships.

The metrics that the NCAA uses to determine the best teams support that the big 12 has been harder than the ACC since Lon took over.

There are about a million factual arguments to be made about OU being a better basketball program than VT.

 

[Eielson]

The claim of what Buzz did at Va Tech being more impressive to what Kruger has done at OU is just plain false.

The claim was that what Buzz has outperformed Lon in the time period since Buddy left. I don't understand how that could be up for debate.

but it’s also impossible to know what would have happened the next few years for Williams at Va Tech. With Williams gone, Va Tech went 16-16 this season and 7-13 in conference. None of us know if they would have done any better with Buzz still there.

I feel that their struggles only serve to emphasize how great Buzz was there. He didn't leave the cupboard empty, and Blackshear most likely would have stayed.

 

[Speedy17]

I love OU basketball but I also know the reality. Except for a great series of years in the Billy Tubbs, Wayman Tisdale, Stacy King, Harvey Grant, and Mookie Blaylock era, OU has never been great in basketball. OU has always been a very good team in most years but rarely great. Sampson had a couple of exceptional years, Lon had one in 2015-2016 with Buddy, even Capel had a couple with Blake Griffin. However, for the most part, OU is very good. It would be nice to have a super team but history says it won't happen. Do I believe that Buzz Williams could take OU to the basketball promise land? Absolutely not and he won't take A&M there either. Buzz seems like a guy who wants to be at a place where 20 wins keeps him in his job otherwise why leave Marquette to go to VT.

 

[BCSooners]

Well it's his last 4 years I'm talking about, so....

Last 3 years made it to the tourney with a win in there. Also got 3rd in conference. If you wanted a higher seed in the tournament ok I get that but it’s hardly a decline, so...

 

[Speedy17]

The claim was that what Buzz has outperformed Lon in the time period since Buddy left. I don't understand how that could be up for debate.



I feel that their struggles only serve to emphasize how great Buzz was there. He didn't leave the cupboard empty, and Blackshear most likely would have stayed.

This one is easy, the Big 12 was MUCH better than the ACC and their records were very similar. I also guarantee that OU played a tougher non-conference than VT.

 

[Eielson]

Except for the fact that he has not declined. He was the #3 seed in the Big 12 Tourney and was going to the Dance.

Interesting take. Anything less than a miraculous performance from Reaves, and we finish 8-10 and 6/10 in the Big XII. I'm not sure how you can classify a 4 year run of 68-60 as anything better than a decline following the Buddy Era.

 

[Eielson]

Last 3 years made it to the tourney with a win in there. Also got 3rd in conference. If you wanted a higher seed in the tournament ok I get that but it’s hardly a decline, so...

I must not understand what you guys are saying. How is a 4 year stretch of 68-60 not a decline from 96-41 the previous 4?

 

[Eielson]

This one is easy, the Big 12 was MUCH better than the ACC and their records were very similar. I also guarantee that OU played a tougher non-conference than VT.

Do you guys even read what I write in here?

VT had been to the NCAAs only TWICE since 1986 before Buzz took over. They went THREE YEARS IN A ROW before Buzz departed. Stop acting like VT is even remotely on our level as a basketball program.

 

[thebigabd]

Do you guys even read what I write in here?

VT had been to the NCAAs only TWICE since 1986 before Buzz took over. They went THREE YEARS IN A ROW before Buzz departed. Stop acting like VT is even remotely on our level as a basketball program.

This. Eielson wins.

 

[BCSooners]

Interesting take. Anything less than a miraculous performance from Reaves, and we finish 8-10 and 6/10 in the Big XII. I'm not sure how you can classify a 4 year run of 68-60 as anything better than a decline following the Buddy Era.

So now you are discrediting a great comeback to prove your point? The 68-60 isn’t impressive unless you consider a bad year was in there mixed in with one of the top SOS in the country every year. Also my main point is he’s doing this running a clean an respected program.

 

[Speedy17]

Do you guys even read what I write in here?

VT had been to the NCAAs only TWICE since 1986 before Buzz took over. They went THREE YEARS IN A ROW before Buzz departed. Stop acting like VT is even remotely on our level as a basketball program.

You don't get it. Yes, Lon had one horrible year going 11-20 after Hield, Cousins, and Spangler graduated. In statistics that season is an outlier. It is a throwout. If you take that season out, Buzz and Lon are about even. If every team fired their coach after a single bad season, hardly anyone would succeed in the coaching profession. OU would have fired Bud Wilkinson in 1960, might have fired Barry Switzer in 1981, and Bob Stoops in 1999. This would have been his third NCAA tournament in a row this year and seven NCAA tournaments out of eight. Only Billy Tubbs with 8 in row and Kelvin Sampson with 9 in a row have matched.

2019
RPI - VT-21 OU-34
SOS - VT-39 OU-7

2018
RPI - VT-59 OU-23
SOS - VT-79 OU-13

2017 - the data says this is an anomaly.
RPI - VT-50 OU-162
SOS - 34 OU-33

2016
RPI - VT-80 OU-6
SOS - VT-44 OU-4

 

[BCSooners]

I must not understand what you guys are saying. How is a 4 year stretch of 68-60 not a decline from 96-41 the previous 4?

So Sampson should’ve been fired for the 3 years after the Elite 8 year because he was on a decline?

 

[skyvue]

Interesting take. Anything less than a miraculous performance from Reaves, and we finish 8-10 and 6/10 in the Big XII.

And anything less than a miracle three-point shot from whichever horn banked it in, and we're back to 9-9. Funny how you guys always want to dismiss wins but you cling dearly to every loss.

Actually, it's not funny. It gets very old.

 

[CoachTalk]

And anything less than a miracle three-point shot from whichever horn banked it in, and we're back to 9-9. Funny how you guys always want to dismiss wins but you cling dearly to every loss.

Actually, it's not funny. It gets very old.

Its what they do.

 

[WTSooner]

lol, some people just refuse to be critical of the program. We saw it with Billy, Kelvin, and Capel, and now with Lon. They will literally ride that bull until it bucks them. Insane, really.

Kruger is literally at .500 in conference during his time at OU. And that is with a FF team, and teams lead by Buddy and Young. That is a lower conference winning percentage than any coach not named Capel since the mid to late 60's. His overall winning percentage is TWO percent higher than Capel, and significantly behind both Tubbs and Sampson.

I've been VERY clear what my expectations are. Top 4 of the conference. Top 25-30 team most of the year. Eight seed or better in the Dance.

And generally, just a feeling of having a complete team and roster, that improves as the season goes on, and plays consistently tough basketball. I know this part is harder to measure, but I don't think we've had this many years under LK. The constant rebuilding of the roster. Too many failed recruits that we're being counted on. Transfers out. Transfers in. IMO, mediocre recruiting at best. It just isn't enough.

Put another way, the supporters keep pointing to making the Dance. But I feel like it's taken everything this team has had to do that much of the past 3-4 years. We missed 4 years ago with one of the worst seasons in OU history. We snuck in (1-2 game cushion, max) the last two years. This year would have been a little more comfortable, but it took some crazy results down the finish and we were still looking at an 8/9 seed. Some of you look at the end result, but the fact is, we got in the last two years because the bubble was soft and college basketball was down. Those OU teams don't get in, with those results, 10 years ago. I think we're one of less than 5 teams to ever get in with a conference record of 4 games under .500. That is unacceptable.

 

[WTSooner]

So Sampson should’ve been fired for the 3 years after the Elite 8 year because he was on a decline?

The three seasons that saw us finish 7th, T1, and 3rd in the Big 12?

The three seasons that included two 20 win seasons and a 25 win season? We've won 20 games ONCE in the past four seasons btw.

So yeah, no, I don't think we should have fired a coach for doing those things. You left out that the 2004 team was VERY young with that good freshman class, and had a lot of bad luck. Bookout missed most of the season. Brown got booted late. Several other starters missed between 1-3 games each. And that team was still just a single questionable blocking foul near halfcourt from making the Dance. THAT team played hard and played together. I can live with having a down season of 20 wins and a .500 conference record when a) that is the floor for the coach's tenure at OU, and b) they played their butts off but just didn't get it done. That isn't what I see when I watch OU over the past 4 seasons.