Obaseki and A&M

[WTSooner]

Again - Buzz was coaching at Virginia Tech. It's absurd to compare VT to OU. Before Buzz took over VT, they'd been to the NCAA tournament twice since 1986. He took them there three years in a row. If you want to make an argument for Lon overall, fine...but we all should be able to agree that Buzz has been better over the past 4 years. It's not even close.

Yep. Comparing a guy with fewer seasons at VT to a guy with more years at OU, isn't really comparative. What Buzz did at VT has been more impressive than what Lon has done at OU.

IMO, of course.

 

[Maverick008]

Yep. Comparing a guy with fewer seasons at VT to a guy with more years at OU, isn't really comparative. What Buzz did at VT has been more impressive than what Lon has done at OU.

IMO, of course.

So why not compare the same amount of time for the two?

Buzz Williams 5 seasons at Va tech

Record- 100-69

Conference finish- 15th, T-7th, T-7th, 7th and 5th

NCAA tourney results- None, none, 1st round, 1st round, Sweet 16

Lon Kruger- 1st 5 seasons at Oklahoma

Record- 111-57

Conference finish- 8th, 4th, 2nd, T-2nd, 3rd

NCAA tourney results- None, 1st round, 1st round, Sweet 16, Final Four

The claim of what Buzz did at Va Tech being more impressive to what Kruger has done at OU is just plain false.

Obviously the years following that time for Kruger hasn’t been near the run any of us had hoped for but it’s also impossible to know what would have happened the next few years for Williams at Va Tech. With Williams gone, Va Tech went 16-16 this season and 7-13 in conference. None of us know if they would have done any better with Buzz still there.

On the flip side, Kruger had a finish of 19-12 and T-3rd in the conference with 1 senior on the team yet a lot of posters want Kruger replaced for “new blood” without knowing what the next few years may bring under Kruger. That makes no sense to me IMO.

 

[Speedy17]

Again - Buzz was coaching at Virginia Tech. It's absurd to compare VT to OU. Before Buzz took over VT, they'd been to the NCAA tournament twice since 1986. He took them there three years in a row. If you want to make an argument for Lon overall, fine...but we all should be able to agree that Buzz has been better over the past 4 years. It's not even close.

I started this thread not to disparage Lon or create a weak comparison. OU lost two recruits to A&M who I believe made poor decisions. When Billy Gillespie is previous best basketball coach, that says it all. A bigger reason for the kids going someone else has been the weak attendance at OU hoops games. I think OU not filling the Lloyd Noble for the Senior Night game vs. Texas didn't help and the game was a disaster. That was Obaseki's last taste of OU hoops.

VT was Buzz's choice. He had been at a basketball school at Marquette (one that has won a natty) and he left there to go to VT. Now he leaves there to go to another weak basketball school called A&M. It seems that Buzz can't get a job a real basketball school while Lon has. Bottom line is Buzz would not be an upgrade over Lon.

 

[BCSooners]

OSU probably wouldn't. UT recently fired a better/more successful coach.

No one would’ve except KU & UT, how’s that working for UT?

 

[BCSooners]

Yep. Comparing a guy with fewer seasons at VT to a guy with more years at OU, isn't really comparative. What Buzz did at VT has been more impressive than what Lon has done at OU.

IMO, of course.

I hope it’s your opinion because it’s a bad take.

 

[BCSooners]

You have 4 years of eligibility in the NCAA, so no it's not. It's a very rational number.

Wow this is never an argument that is valid unless it’s a coach’s first 4 years to show growth or last 4 years to show decline.

 

[WTSooner]

So why not compare the same amount of time for the two?

On the flip side, Kruger had a finish of 19-12 and T-3rd in the conference with 1 senior on the team yet a lot of posters want Kruger replaced for “new blood” without knowing what the next few years may bring under Kruger. That makes no sense to me IMO.

Because it's years 1-5 at VT vs years 3-7 at OU? You really think that is a valid comparison? You really think VT has the history that OU basketball does? You really think it's equally as easy to win in the ACC as it is the Big 12? Give me a break. ACC is to basketball what the SEC is to football.

What the NEXT few years may bring? Why would I try to guess on that when I can look at his recent history and form an opinion on what is likely to happen? The past few seasons, IMO, represent what we're going to get from Kruger most of the time. And that is a .500 or sub-.500 Big 12 record, and a seed in the Dance that suggests we'll lose our first game. Every once in a while it'll be a worse season than that, and every once in a while better. I'm afraid whiffing on these talented Oklahoma recruits probably gets rid of any chance of us having a FF type season in the next 4-5 years. Kruger really needed to grab a couple of those kids to pair with Harmon if that goal was going to be reached.

 

[WTSooner]

I hope it’s your opinion because it’s a bad take.

That's cool. You want to hold onto Kruger as long as you can. Some of us are capable of seeing the truth/facts on the front end. Just like I was able to with Caple. Pretty confident I'll come out of this argument on the right side 4-5 years down the road.

 

[thebigabd]

Need to go ahead and sign Josh Baker at Hutchinson CC early for next years class. Stop chasing the 5 stars we never get and go get him. Just get this guy early. When you shoot like that and produce on a team with 3-4 other D-1 players, people are going to come after you in the recruiting process.

6'4'' 175 guard... Averaged 14 points and 4 rebounds per game as a freshman, shooting 49% from the 3pt line with 76 makes. First Blue Dragon Jayhawk West Freshman of the Year since Bashir Ahmed in 2015 and is fourth Freshman of the Year in the Steve Eck era. Baker led the Jayhawk Conference this season in 3-point efficiency at 49.4 percent (76 of 154). That mark is fourth-best in Jayhawk Conference history.

He would give OU the following at the guard spots:

Devion Harmon (would be a junior)
Jamal Bienemy (would be a senior)
Josh Baker (would be a junior)
Trey Phipps (would be a sophomore)
Jalen Hill (more of a small forward, would be a junior)
Anyang Garang (more of a wing, but supposedly a shooter. Would be a RS sophomore)
Bijan Cortes (would be a freshman)

My understanding of Phipps, Hill, Garang, and Cortes is that, in combination with a guy like Baker, OU would have plenty of guys who can shoot the ball. Might even have the luxury of redshirting Cortes unless he is ready to play.

In the paint you would have Jalen Hill (who I assume will play some PF), Victor, Ricky Issanza... Need to go out and sign another couple of bigs in that class to bring in.

 

[Maverick008]

Because it's years 1-5 at VT vs years 3-7 at OU? You really think that is a valid comparison?

Years 3-7? Unless I looked at the data wrong, I took the data from Kruger’s first 5 years at OU not years 3-7?

 

[WTSooner]

Years 3-7? Unless I looked at the data wrong, I took the data from Kruger’s first 5 years at OU not years 3-7?

Fair enough, I missed that.

Doesn't chance my response though. OU might have been down when LK took over, but it's still OU. VT has been a mess of a program for a LONG TIME. They made the Dance ONE time since 1996 until Buzz took them to three straight from 2017-2019. Let me put that another way.....before Buzz took them to three straight, the span, in years, since they last went to three was 1986-2007.

So just comparing the two programs for 5 years, doesn't really say much. And I'll say it again, the ACC is by far the toughest and deepest basketball conference in America.

So yes. I was more impressed with what Buzz did at VT than what Lon has done at OU.

 

[TINY]

Fair enough, I missed that.

Doesn't chance my response though. OU might have been down when LK took over, but it's still OU. VT has been a mess of a program for a LONG TIME. They made the Dance ONE time since 1996 until Buzz took them to three straight from 2017-2019. Let me put that another way.....before Buzz took them to three straight, the span, in years, since they last went to three was 1986-2007.

So just comparing the two programs for 5 years, doesn't really say much. And I'll say it again, the ACC is by far the toughest and deepest basketball conference in America.

So yes. I was more impressed with what Buzz did at VT than what Lon has done at OU.

Arguments are made with facts not opinions. Everything u posted here is opinion.

 

[WTSooner]

Arguments are made with facts not opinions. Everything u posted here is opinion.

Really?

I think I provided facts supporting my statement that the VT program had been a mess for a LONG TIME.

They made the Dance ONE time since 1996 until Buzz took them to three straight from 2017-2019.

That was a fact.

Let me put that another way.....before Buzz took them to three straight, the span, in years, since they last went to three was 1986-2007.

Another fact.

And I'll say it again, the ACC is by far the toughest and deepest basketball conference in America.

Opinion, but I can back it up with A LOT of facts if I need to.

 

[TINY]

Really?

I think I provided facts supporting my statement that the VT program had been a mess for a LONG TIME.



That was a fact.



Another fact.



Opinion, but I can back it up with A LOT of facts if I need to.

It is opinion to say he had a harder turnaround at vt than Lon had at ou under probation and lost scholarships.

The metrics that the NCAA uses to determine the best teams support that the big 12 has been harder than the ACC since Lon took over.

 

[sheepdogs1]

Arguments are made with facts not opinions. Everything u posted here is opinion.

One opinion might be to throw water on a grease fire while another opinion might be to use a substance which contains the fire. Import. Not all opinions are one in the same. If your opinions are better than mine then you could clearly use them during an argument. If arguments were voidless of opinion there would be no argument.

 

[BCSooners]

That's cool. You want to hold onto Kruger as long as you can. Some of us are capable of seeing the truth/facts on the front end. Just like I was able to with Caple. Pretty confident I'll come out of this argument on the right side 4-5 years down the road.

I’ll take making the dance 7 of 9 years (3 in a row just like Buzz) vs 3 out of 5. Getting out of the first round 3 times, including a FF, vs 0 times. LK also doing it in the best conference, which is funny you still try and dispute that.

What Buzz did at VT was impressive. I just don’t get how you don’t see what LK has done is better with the numbers staring at you. He’s also doing this running a clean program during the investigations.

Also good job on predicting Capel after he got the program on probation and had 2 terrible seasons. Not sure how you can use that as a reference.

Like I said I think LK is done after Harmon’s class which would be about right with me.

 

[mict085]

I’ll take making the dance 7 of 9 years (3 in a row just like Buzz) vs 3 out of 5. Getting out of the first round 3 times, including a FF, vs 0 times. LK also doing it in the best conference, which is funny you still try and dispute that.

What Buzz did at VT was impressive. I just don’t get how you don’t see what LK has done is better with the numbers staring at you. He’s also doing this running a clean program during the investigations.

Also good job on predicting Capel after he got the program on probation and had 2 terrible seasons. Not sure how you can use that as a reference.

Like I said I think LK is done after Harmon’s class which would be about right with me.

Lon is a HOF coach at the end of his career. He’s a great guy but it’s time for him to retire. He will be allowed to retire when he wants. So, we’re stuck in this 17-18 win era until then. Recruiting has sucked for 4 years and it’s continuing to suck for apparently the foreseeable future. I think that’s the point.

 

[BCSooners]

Lon is a HOF coach at the end of his career. He’s a great guy but it’s time for him to retire. He will be allowed to retire when he wants. So, we’re stuck in this 17-18 win era until then. Recruiting has sucked for 4 years and it’s continuing to suck for apparently the foreseeable future. I think that’s the point.

Last year was a really good class.

 

[Soonerinkc]

Last year was a really good class.

next yr's "class" isn't even in top 100...with one 6' kid....and now another 'ship available we'll see.

Harmon can turn out pretty good..
Victor? dude has NO OFFENSIVE skills at all..
Hill will be a journey-man type of kid. He hustles, can get a board here and there but doesn't look like the "take the game over" type of guy so far..
Garang - no clue
Rick - has size...we'll see

 

[TINY]

next yr's "class" isn't even in top 100...with one 6' kid....and now another 'ship available we'll see.

Harmon can turn out pretty good..
Victor? dude has NO OFFENSIVE skills at all..
Hill will be a journey-man type of kid. He hustles, can get a board here and there but doesn't look like the "take the game over" type of guy so far..
Garang - no clue
Rick - has size...we'll see

Did you label hield and cousins as journeymen after their mediocre freshman years, too? Iwuakor and hill are going to be very good for us.