OU @ Baylor 8pm CST on ESPNU

[steverocks35]

I see your point. I would just prefer him not play much, along with cortes. We have a large enough sample size of them not being ready in this conference. I think it is a fair criticism of Moser to wonder why we haven’t seen much from Joe Bam to date. Oweh is a freshman, so I understand why he has been eased in during conference play. I expect him to be playing 25-30 mpg now though and seems like moser agrees.

I think the growing pains you're seeing now should have been worked out somewhat in the non-con but I guess he thought the team was good enough to have those guys not be in the rotation.

 

[thebigabd]

If I had a nickel for every time I pimped Texas Tech, Nebraska, Colorado, etc because they were 15-15 and lost 10 of their games by 2 points, 3 points, inside 8 points, in overtime, etc I would have lots of nickels.

I've been polishing turds for a long time, and trust me, close-ish losses can be fools gold. The truth of it is all teams are "2 guy away" from being good, or better.

 

[steverocks35]

If I had a nickel for every time I pimped Texas Tech, Nebraska, Colorado, etc because they were 15-15 and lost 10 of their games by 2 points, 3 points, inside 8 points, in overtime, etc I would have lots of nickels.

I've been polishing turds for a long time, and trust me, close-ish losses can be fools gold. The truth of it is all teams are "2 guy away" from being good, or better.

Yep and last night I never had the feeling we had a chance to win, even when we momentarily took the lead.

 

[steverocks35]

The new era in college basketball is such that you can't sit your most talented players or the ones with the most potential. Does it matter if you redshirt a guy and get an extra year of eligibility with the portal and cost-free transfers available? Why are you "easing" a freshman into the rotation? If he can play you better get him on the floor and get him ready because you may not get year 2 with him.

 

[WTSooner]

He's a streaky shooter. You DO lengthen his leash when he makes two in a row because the team has been struggling tremendously and you're looking for a spark. Or at least you should be.

Even if he's been in the game a while? Even if he is showing signs of fatigue? Even if his defense isn't good? Even if the other team makes a substitution that doesn't allow for JG to have a good matchup? Even if a better player is now rested and ready to come back into the game?

You are making this WAY too complicated. It was likely time for a starter to get back in the game. Two made shots doesn't change that substitution pattern.

 

[steverocks35]

Even if he's been in the game a while? Even if he is showing signs of fatigue? Even if his defense isn't good? Even if the other team makes a substitution that doesn't allow for JG to have a good matchup? Even if a better player is now rested and ready to come back into the game?

You are making this WAY too complicated. It was likely time for a starter to get back in the game. Two made shots doesn't change that substitution pattern.

1. He wasn't in the game a while.
2. He wasn't showing signs of fatigue.
3. If the other team made a substitution that's a bad matchup for him he just made two nice shots against that matchup.
4. The better player can sub for someone else.

You are making this WAY too complicated.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Agreed, he shouldn't be getting major minutes with the qualifier that if he starts hitting shots you keep him in to see if he can stay hot. I know he can't defend a lick but neither can several other guys on the team.

Porter doesnt know what hes doing IMO. Its like elementary that if a guy hits a couple of shots in a row, you ought to ride that horse til it stops..

But I'm thankful i was wrong and hes actually now playing the other guys. Nothing to lose anymore bc the season. Is over. Play for the future (and hopefully PM leaves anyway).

 

[TINY]

I think the growing pains you're seeing now should have been worked out somewhat in the non-con but I guess he thought the team was good enough to have those guys not be in the rotation.

I think moser suffers from similar things as BV and a lot of other coaches do. If someone isn’t doing everything right in practice, they don’t play as much. This is how someone like Justin broiles plays 5 years at Oklahoma (when he has no business seeing the field), while a more talented player rides the line. You can’t win against good competition with guys like Jacob groves and Cortes playing as many minutes as they are. Similarly, we have had the worst defenses of all time at ou over the last few years when guys like broiles and fields were starting.

 

[Stikboy]

I think moser suffers from similar things as BV and a lot of other coaches do. If someone isn’t doing everything right in practice, they don’t play as much. This is how someone like Justin broiles plays 5 years at Oklahoma (when he has no business seeing the field), while a more talented player rides the line. You can’t win against good competition with guys like Jacob groves and Cortes playing as many minutes as they are. Similarly, we have had the worst defenses of all time at ou over the last few years when guys like broiles and fields were starting.

This is a great point, and you can see it from the coaches' perspective. But man, you lose so much with not playing the most talented, athletic guy. My issue is to what degree is the younger guy not performing in practice or such? If he has a good attitude, but is a freshman and just isn't used to the grind of practice, I think you need to cut some slack. Heck, it might just pay off for you in games. I've been pleading for more Oweh, glad he's finally getting some run. I too wish it could have been earlier.

 

[WichitaSooner]

This is a great point, and you can see it from the coaches' perspective. But man, you lose so much with not playing the most talented, athletic guy. My issue is to what degree is the younger guy not performing in practice or such? If he has a good attitude, but is a freshman and just isn't used to the grind of practice, I think you need to cut some slack. Heck, it might just pay off for you in games. I've been pleading for more Oweh, glad he's finally getting some run. I too wish it could have been earlier.

Yes, there is a difference between a guy who just isn't a great practice player and a guy who is a true problem (e.,g, shows up late, misses meetings, skips class). I remember Kelvin saying that JR Raymond was a "lights player," meaning he performed better in games (when the bright lights were on) than in practice. Kelvin values practice as much as anyone, but he didn't banish JR to the bench for 2 months. I know Bam was struggling in games, too, but he never got enough minutes to see if he could work through that. And I think the biggest reason that I'm annoyed with the decision to not use Bam and Oweh for so long is because they are the two guys who supply what our team otherwise lacks. Their athleticism is a mile ahead of the rest of our guys. You have to give them a chance to see if they can use that to their advantage in games.

 

[hoopsaustin]

Yes, there is a difference between a guy who just isn't a great practice player and a guy who is a true problem (e.,g, shows up late, misses meetings, skips class). I remember Kelvin saying that JR Raymond was a "lights player," meaning he performed better in games (when the bright lights were on) than in practice. Kelvin values practice as much as anyone, but he didn't banish JR to the bench for 2 months. I know Bam was struggling in games, too, but he never got enough minutes to see if he could work through that. And I think the biggest reason that I'm annoyed with the decision to not use Bam and Oweh for so long is because they are the two guys who supply what our team otherwise lacks. Their athleticism is a mile ahead of the rest of our guys. You have to give them a chance to see if they can use that to their advantage in games.

Esp when the alternative is jacob grovlves and cj noland..

 

[mict085]

I think moser suffers from similar things as BV and a lot of other coaches do. If someone isn’t doing everything right in practice, they don’t play as much. This is how someone like Justin broiles plays 5 years at Oklahoma (when he has no business seeing the field), while a more talented player rides the line. You can’t win against good competition with guys like Jacob groves and Cortes playing as many minutes as they are. Similarly, we have had the worst defenses of all time at ou over the last few years when guys like broiles and fields were starting.

I get your point but blaming BV for Broiles? Nah. That was the previous staffs mistakes over years of bad recruiting. BV has already fixed that problem through recruiting and the portal. If Broiles was still eligible, he wouldn’t see the field next season.

Don’t compare BV to moser or the previous football coaching staff. They are not at all the same.

Anyway, carry on.

 

[jaymOU]

Yes, there is a difference between a guy who just isn't a great practice player and a guy who is a true problem (e.,g, shows up late, misses meetings, skips class). I remember Kelvin saying that JR Raymond was a "lights player," meaning he performed better in games (when the bright lights were on) than in practice. Kelvin values practice as much as anyone, but he didn't banish JR to the bench for 2 months. I know Bam was struggling in games, too, but he never got enough minutes to see if he could work through that. And I think the biggest reason that I'm annoyed with the decision to not use Bam and Oweh for so long is because they are the two guys who supply what our team otherwise lacks. Their athleticism is a mile ahead of the rest of our guys. You have to give them a chance to see if they can use that to their advantage in games.

I agree on JoeBam and Oweh athletic ability - hard to argue, however, they are both turnover machines. For instance, Oweh played 21 minutes last night - not as the primary ball handler and had 2 turnovers. JoeBam played 18 minutes and had 3. 5 of the team's 14 turnover (twice what BU had) came from 2 non-primary ball handlers playing half the game.

This team has struggled with TOs all year, so I can see where PM would not want to play guys who turn the ball over more. JoeBam and Oweh average a turnover every 10 minutes they play.

I like the spark they bring, but their handles and decision-making are questionable.

And last night in the last 4 minutes Oweh had one TO and GS had two. Add a missed front-end of a 1v1 by Los and OU goes scoreless for about 3 minutes.

 

[hoopsaustin]

I get your point but blaming BV for Broiles? Nah. That was the previous staffs mistakes over years of bad recruiting. BV has already fixed that problem through recruiting and the portal. If Broiles was still eligible, he wouldn’t see the field next season.

Don’t compare BV to moser or the previous football coaching staff. They are not at all the same.

Anyway, carry on.

I wish/hope youd be right on BV with your hypothetical, but I'm not yet convinced. Im concerned that BV will continue Bobs history if playing "guys who deserve it" instead of the beat player(s) to get a win. I hope BV is cut-throat on thelat aspect, but i doubt it so far from some of the evidence ive seen

 

[TINY]

I get your point but blaming BV for Broiles? Nah. That was the previous staffs mistakes over years of bad recruiting. BV has already fixed that problem through recruiting and the portal. If Broiles was still eligible, he wouldn’t see the field next season.

Don’t compare BV to moser or the previous football coaching staff. They are not at all the same.

Anyway, carry on.

No one forced BV to play broiles. Plenty of more talented players to choose from on last season’s roster (lawrence, Bryson Washington to name a few). But broiles was always doing the right things at practice and off the field.

Right now moser has a way better resume as a head coach than BV. Also you cannot have the same expectations for the hoops team as the football team. Ou football is one of the bluest of blue bloods both historically and still today. Hoops is a top 25-30 program all time and it doesn’t have near the financial support as many of its competitors currently. I’m hopeful Bv will turn it around this year but the jury is very much out. 9-10 wins minimum this year or I will have serious doubts.

 

[WTSooner]

The funny thing, if we DO have an athletic problem, PM and his system were supposed to operate just fine without having studs. Right? Wasn't that some of the draw? He runs a SYSTEM offense where the offense itself gets the open shots, not the players? And he ran a form of the mid-line defense which was supposed to not allow penetration?

Seems like his message isn't getting across, and he hasn't done a good job recruiting to his system.

 

[skyvue]

I think it is a fair criticism of Moser to wonder why we haven’t seen much from Joe Bam to date.

I'm very glad to see that the light might turning on for Bamasile, but I have no problem with him not seeing time previously. When he did he was generally not just so-so, but awful.

 

[pnkranger]

Right, but anyone who’s coached basketball before can watch that team and say that Bam and Oweh are the two best athletes on the floor and should have been given time to adjust early on.

I know he wants to win every game and we didn’t have any easy ones this year … but they needed court time.

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Right, but anyone who’s coached basketball before can watch that team and say that Bam and Oweh are the two best athletes on the floor and should have been given time to adjust early on.

I know he wants to win every game and we didn’t have any easy ones this year … but they needed court time.

Sure. But then you lose more non conference games and still probably have the same conference record

 

[mict085]

No one forced BV to play broiles. Plenty of more talented players to choose from on last season’s roster (lawrence, Bryson Washington to name a few). But broiles was always doing the right things at practice and off the field.

Right now moser has a way better resume as a head coach than BV. Also you cannot have the same expectations for the hoops team as the football team. Ou football is one of the bluest of blue bloods both historically and still today. Hoops is a top 25-30 program all time and it doesn’t have near the financial support as many of its competitors currently. I’m hopeful Bv will turn it around this year but the jury is very much out. 9-10 wins minimum this year or I will have serious doubts.

BV has won national titles and knows what it takes. Moser is barely above .500 as a coach. Mediocre. I disagree with your entire premise. This is a basketball board, so that’s all I’m going to say. I don’t want to derail this thread any further.