OU vs Duke on ESPN#

[SoonerNorm]

It is easier to recruit to Norman than it is to OSU or Waco.

 

[womenssports]

What do you think Sherri doesn't know?

We probably underrated UALR which is a pretty good team. We needed to come out firing to win on their home court. They are a top forty to fifty caliber team.

Syb, do you not think coaching is part of the problem? As far as UALR, if we underrated them that is on the coach. No matter who we play we should come out agressive and firing, whether it is Bradley, UALR or Duke. You should be coached to do that. You shouldn't ever play sloppy because that leads to being sloppy. You shouldn't ever not be your best. Now that isn't to say that once a game is in hand that you might not use it to try new things, use different line-ups, and play the last of your bench....but never use any time on the floor to do less as a player, to not improve.

As far as what Sherri does not know, I don't know. I do think this team should be doing better and that last year's team should have done better and just looking at it from the outside, I would say coaching is a factor. Even if Sherri knows everything equally well, which I doubt that she does, that does not mean she is able to coach all things equally well. And it is also not just about knowing the game, it is getting it across to all players. It is also about motivating all players, bringing out the best in all players, seeing everything that is happening on the floor and remembering and conveying all of that to all players.....in practise, in one-on-one sessions in her office, in time-outs, in halftime lockerrooms, in a chat when someone comes off the floor, in a chat before when someone comes off the bench......that would be extremely difficult for any one person. It is also about seeing all that is going on on the court and knowing when to sit a player and what player to replace her with. I believe MOST coaches need someone to complement them. That is true of all working situations in which one is in charge and others are subordinates.....having someone who complements you.

Now if you take that as a slight on Sherri, nothing I can say to that. The only slight that would be on Sherri is that she has not hired someone who does that. MAYBE she needs someone who complements her to make her realize that is what she needs.....a friend, another coach, her spouse, athletic director, her son.

I will take a stab at what I think another coach could help her improve upon in the players........offense, defense, shot selection, rebounding, turnovers, confidence, focus, consistency, taking it play-by-play, just stupid mistakes some of which could be included in the some of the previous mentioned things, moving on offense, not having three players standing around bta, moving with the ball towards the basket, trying to get open and shoot ten foot shots, dribbling towards the basket, cohesiveness on the floor, each player knowing how they can best help the team, every player working on what they do best and fundamentals. Yes, some of these things overlap or one might include another, just a general list.

That is what I believe. I do think Bo helped in some of these areas when he was here but had issues with things I saw in Bo's coaching on the sidelines when he was here, though I wasn't in practices and really could have been completely wrong and I know that.

I don't know that I have any more to add to this. I feel what I have said either offends you and/or you just don't agree or maybe you just wanted me to be more specific. I can see you not agreeing but being offended, I would not get that. If one coach could do it all, why would there be assistants. If you think it has nothing to do with the coaching, well I agree to disagree.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Syb, do you not think coaching is part of the problem? As far as UALR, if we underrated them that is on the coach. No matter who we play we should come out agressive and firing, whether it is Bradley, UALR or Duke. You should be coached to do that. You shouldn't ever play sloppy because that leads to being sloppy. You shouldn't ever not be your best. Now that isn't to say that once a game is in hand that you might not use it to try new things, use different line-ups, and play the last of your bench....but never use any time on the floor to do less as a player, to not improve.

As far as what Sherri does not know, I don't know. I do think this team should be doing better and that last year's team should have done better and just looking at it from the outside, I would say coaching is a factor. Even if Sherri knows everything equally well, which I doubt that she does, that does not mean she is able to coach all things equally well. And it is also not just about knowing the game, it is getting it across to all players. It is also about motivating all players, bringing out the best in all players, seeing everything that is happening on the floor and remembering and conveying all of that to all players.....in practise, in one-on-one sessions in her office, in time-outs, in halftime lockerrooms, in a chat when someone comes off the floor, in a chat before when someone comes off the bench......that would be extremely difficult for any one person. It is also about seeing all that is going on on the court and knowing when to sit a player and what player to replace her with. I believe MOST coaches need someone to complement them. That is true of all working situations in which one is in charge and others are subordinates.....having someone who complements you.

Now if you take that as a slight on Sherri, nothing I can say to that. The only slight that would be on Sherri is that she has not hired someone who does that. MAYBE she needs someone who complements her to make her realize that is what she needs.....a friend, another coach, her spouse, athletic director, her son.

I will take a stab at what I think another coach could help her improve upon in the players........offense, defense, shot selection, rebounding, turnovers, confidence, focus, consistency, taking it play-by-play, just stupid mistakes some of which could be included in the some of the previous mentioned things, moving on offense, not having three players standing around bta, moving with the ball towards the basket, trying to get open and shoot ten foot shots, dribbling towards the basket, cohesiveness on the floor, each player knowing how they can best help the team, every player working on what they do best and fundamentals. Yes, some of these things overlap or one might include another, just a general list.

That is what I believe. I do think Bo helped in some of these areas when he was here but had issues with things I saw in Bo's coaching on the sidelines when he was here, though I wasn't in practices and really could have been completely wrong and I know that.

I don't know that I have any more to add to this. I feel what I have said either offends you and/or you just don't agree or maybe you just wanted me to be more specific. I can see you not agreeing but being offended, I would not get that. If one coach could do it all, why would there be assistants. If you think it has nothing to do with the coaching, well I agree to disagree.

Very good! OF COURSE coaching has EVERYTHING to do with who is on the team, how the team prepares for each game, and how they perform on game day. Players are responsible for executing what they have been coached to do and sometimes they come up short in their responsibilities. But, those times should be limited and the coach must take corrective action. A team that continues to make silly mistakes is not a disciplined team. That starts with the head coach. A team should NEVER be surprised by an opponent. If it happens, I would say the coach is at least 80% to blame.

Compare what you see going on in Norman to what is happening in Austin and Waco. It isn't pretty. Heck, Stillwater concerns me right now! A few years ago I thought Sherri was doing a really good job. I have thought for some time she is not performing as expected and neither has her teams. I know some may have a heart attack over that last comment but, oh well. That's simply the way I see it.

 

[sybarite]

Syb, do you not think coaching is part of the problem? As far as UALR, if we underrated them that is on the coach. No matter who we play we should come out agressive and firing, whether it is Bradley, UALR or Duke. You should be coached to do that. You shouldn't ever play sloppy because that leads to being sloppy. You shouldn't ever not be your best. Now that isn't to say that once a game is in hand that you might not use it to try new things, use different line-ups, and play the last of your bench....but never use any time on the floor to do less as a player, to not improve.

As far as what Sherri does not know, I don't know. I do think this team should be doing better and that last year's team should have done better and just looking at it from the outside, I would say coaching is a factor. Even if Sherri knows everything equally well, which I doubt that she does, that does not mean she is able to coach all things equally well. And it is also not just about knowing the game, it is getting it across to all players. It is also about motivating all players, bringing out the best in all players, seeing everything that is happening on the floor and remembering and conveying all of that to all players.....in practise, in one-on-one sessions in her office, in time-outs, in halftime lockerrooms, in a chat when someone comes off the floor, in a chat before when someone comes off the bench......that would be extremely difficult for any one person. It is also about seeing all that is going on on the court and knowing when to sit a player and what player to replace her with. I believe MOST coaches need someone to complement them. That is true of all working situations in which one is in charge and others are subordinates.....having someone who complements you.

Now if you take that as a slight on Sherri, nothing I can say to that. The only slight that would be on Sherri is that she has not hired someone who does that. MAYBE she needs someone who complements her to make her realize that is what she needs.....a friend, another coach, her spouse, athletic director, her son.

I will take a stab at what I think another coach could help her improve upon in the players........offense, defense, shot selection, rebounding, turnovers, confidence, focus, consistency, taking it play-by-play, just stupid mistakes some of which could be included in the some of the previous mentioned things, moving on offense, not having three players standing around bta, moving with the ball towards the basket, trying to get open and shoot ten foot shots, dribbling towards the basket, cohesiveness on the floor, each player knowing how they can best help the team, every player working on what they do best and fundamentals. Yes, some of these things overlap or one might include another, just a general list.

That is what I believe. I do think Bo helped in some of these areas when he was here but had issues with things I saw in Bo's coaching on the sidelines when he was here, though I wasn't in practices and really could have been completely wrong and I know that.

I don't know that I have any more to add to this. I feel what I have said either offends you and/or you just don't agree or maybe you just wanted me to be more specific. I can see you not agreeing but being offended, I would not get that. If one coach could do it all, why would there be assistants. If you think it has nothing to do with the coaching, well I agree to disagree.

Not bad. Let's assess some of the statements. Let's first look at the idea of whether OU should have come out firing against UALR.

In the ideal world, you come out firing for every practice and every game. In reality, Even at the pro level, Emmitt Smith and Nate Newton said that the team would no longer play for Jimmy Johnson after winning that second title in a row. They were tired of his psychological games that were required to keep them fired up for every game. You can lose a team by going full steam all the time. You work with the mental aspects of a team just like you work with the learning curve on fundamentals.

If you haven't noticed, Sherri's teams seem to peak at the end of the year, with the exception of last year. A rather mediocre team suddenly swept to the Big Twelve title, the first unseeded team to do so. It peaked at the right time. It would have been nice if they had carried it over to the NCAAs. But, with the exception of Courtney's freshman year, we tended to go further than anticipated. We made it to the Final Four with Courtney gone, and Abi at the post. That team had all kinds of problems in December, and we had half the fans wanting to replace Abi with a freshman, Jo. We made it to the Sweet Sixteen when not expected to, beating the co-champions of the ACC to get there.

Yet, quite often, these teams have not looked all that good in December. We often begin the conference play rather inauspiciously. Interestingly enough, I think Mulkey lost a couple of national titles due to her attitude. She had the talent to win three straight, losing by surprise in the NCAA tournament, once to an A&M team that she had beaten two or three times already. I think she keeps her team too much on edge. They beat up on minor teams by fifty points and don't let up. She is screaming at them when they make a turnover while leading by fifty. The one team that I really liked of Kim's was the one that wasn't expected to win. It did peak at the right time, and it also had the advantage of having no great team in the nation that year. UConn didn't win the national title that year, and Tennessee was down. There was no big favorite that year, and Baylor wasn't even an afterthought until they made the Final Four.

I don't think there is anything that Sherri doesn't know. I don't know that she teaches post moves all that well. Isn't that Pam DeCosta's job? Sherri knows guards, and that is probably why OU tends to fare well in the NCAA tournament. I think Sherri knows her job better than any other coach at OU, with the exception of Williams and Gasso. I tend to think of the three of them as co-equals in talent.

I do think Sherri has a narrower window for success. Largely due to the demographics of Oklahoma (not Norman---Oklahoma), OU has never attracted great national recruits in men's or women's basketball. Sherri did get a break with Courtney, Ashley, Abi, and Amanda. I suspect that a part of that was the backgrounds of Courtney, Ashley, and Amanda. They weren't exactly reared as underprivileged kids. They had money as kids. They didn't go to the bad neighborhood schools. They had no reason to fear the demographics of certain areas. Amanda followed Courtney. But, history suggests that this is an exception. OU has tried to get the top prospects to visit, but they just don't seem to want to be at OU. Well, a lot of schools do well without the top prospects. But, it means that you need to have a bunch of the next level from which to build.

I think that this means that Sherri doesn't have a lot of room for errors in judgement. The people she recruits need to succeed. A miss, especially on a team that usually has only about six or seven good players ready to play, stands out. You need for Amanda to develop a shot. You need for Aaryn to step up to McDonald's All-American status. You need for the Parade All-American Griffin and the WBCA All-American Kornet to succeed. They have to rise to the top. If you don't have access to as many, you need for the ones you get to reach their abilities. I think we had some failures in that area. We had Aaryn and Nicole Griffin not pan out as hoped. We lost Whitney to injury. The new Whitney or Stacy Dales was lost to two successive injuries. We lost a center to back problems. We had an Achilles tear. We don't have the luxury of many such losses in order to sustain success.

Notice that even Stanford and Tennessee are struggling away from home. A few misses hurt.

I think we have begun to bring in a few more prospects that can elevate the team. I am excited to have Penzo (even with an injury), Pierre-Louis, Treece, and Williams, along with Gabbi. I like what I have heard about the post that is coming in next year. She fits. I like what I have seen of Dungee. I like what I have heard about Llanusa and Mulkey. We need this caliber of player, and I would like to have about two or three more good prospects join them. A lot could change if Maddie were to regain her health.

I think Texas will be difficult if she can coach. They are getting some good ones. I think Mulkey may have run her course. She was recruiting some players who kind of had an outlaw attitude, which is her attitude. Now, she has had some players express their dismay at how they were treated from both title teams. I don't know if she can continue to recruit effectively to the angry crowd. There are other places to go where it isn't all about the coach's attitude.

One of the most difficult things that a college coach has to do is to be able to evaluate the prospects coming in. You need their skills. But, you also need to find kids with other qualities. Mulkey didn't teach Griner to shoot free throws. That was a gym rat who refused to let her weakness get her down. Mulkey didn't teach Sims to be a brat. Sims came to Baylor with an attitude, and it made Baylor tough. Does Baylor have that attitude without Sims?

Sherri can recruit the type of kids that we can get to OU. But, there isn't much room for error. We aren't UConn or Duke or Notre Dame. We need for the players that we get to have the attitude that they want to improve, that they want to be winners. You can't always gauge that. It's one of the toughest things to gauge. You want to see someone work until they are a ninety percent free throw shooter. You don't want to see the same turnovers as a senior that you saw as a freshman. You don't want the same silly reach-in fouls. If you go to Notre Dame or UConn, they have someone to replace you with if you screw up. We don't have that margin for error. We can't bring someone off the bench who will inject energy when our seniors won't. We don't have a back-up center who doesn't commit silly fouls. Sherri has to work on the kids to get them to improve themselves out of a sense of pride. That doesn't always work. It certainly doesn't work if it is perceived as badgering.

 

[womenssports]

Not bad.

So Syb, I really had no desire to get into this discussion and almost ignored your question, but decided I should respond as specifically and fully as I could.

Now, to be specific, do you not think coaching is part of the problem? That a really good assistant would not be an asset to Sherri? Or do you think we have what we need?

 

[sybarite]

I don't know what an assistant might do that Sherri isn't doing. I trust her judgement much more than I do that of her critics. If she needed something or saw something that could help her, she has an attitude that would go after it. Sherri is probably the most aggressive person on the floor at OU, and that is what she saw in Stacy and Maddie. She needs a Sherri, and Maddie has two ACL injuries.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

I'm pretty sure Amanda didn't come for any kind of privileged life. She grew up poor on the mean streets of Chicago, didn't she?


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[womenssports]

I'm pretty sure Amanda didn't come for any kind of privileged life. She grew up poor on the mean streets of Chicago, didn't she?


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Quite sure that he meant to say Abi.

 

[SoonerNorm]

If we were signing elite white players, I might buy into the argument that we aren't signing elite black players because they don't like this area. That ain't happening. We don't have any elite players on the roster of any color.

One more time...recruiting is not going to improve until we improve the recruiters.

 

[womenssports]

I don't know what an assistant might do that Sherri isn't doing. I trust her judgement much more than I do that of her critics. If she needed something or saw something that could help her, she has an attitude that would go after it. Sherri is probably the most aggressive person on the floor at OU, and that is what she saw in Stacy and Maddie. She needs a Sherri, and Maddie has two ACL injuries.

Not sure what Stacy and Maddie have to do with the discussion. And what is your problem with someone attempting to figure out what might make the team better....trying to make an analysis. I am not saying Sherri is not good; I am not saying she should be fired; I am just saying what I feel might help the program. You seemed to insist on making it personal and being critical. I am not on here criticisizing one player one day and hailing them the next. I am not on here saying we will never win another game, the players are terrible, etc etc.......crotchety old man syndrome?

 

[sybarite]

If we were signing elite white players, I might buy into the argument that we aren't signing elite black players because they don't like this area. That ain't happening. We don't have any elite players on the roster of any color.

One more time...recruiting is not going to improve until we improve the recruiters.

Why don't you preach this on the men's board?

Fact: the reputation of Oklahoma isn't helping period, with anyone. It especially affects minorities. Look at the players that we sign, including the minorities.

 

[keysersose]

I don't think it makes much difference who the assistant coaches are, since they are asked to recruit the type of player the head coach wants. The disconnect is between the coach's stated ambition, to win a national championship, and her recruiting philosophy, to recruit a particular type of person/player. What type? Well, look at them. To me, the best comparison is to Iowa State. There, you have a coach who is also committed to a particular type of play and player. The difference is, Fennelly doesn't talk about winning national championships.

Perhaps, though, we should be happy with what we have. Good players, good students, regular NCAAA appearances, occasional deep runs in the tournament. Could be worse.

 

[SoonerNorm]

Not sure what Stacy and Maddie have to do with the discussion. And what is your problem with someone attempting to figure out what might make the team better....trying to make an analysis. I am not saying Sherri is not good; I am not saying she should be fired; I am just saying what I feel might help the program. You seemed to insist on making it personal and being critical. I am not on here criticisizing one player one day and hailing them the next. I am not on here saying we will never win another game, the players are terrible, etc etc.......crotchety old man syndrome?

Some will always criticize anyone who suggests Sherri isn't doing a great job and she needs to make some changes to improve the program. They will even manufacture ridiculous excuses in an attempt to prove whatever is wrong, it's not Sherri's fault. It might be the weather, the latitude or longitude, too many dandelions, you name it, they will use it as an excuse. But one thing you can count on, they will never hold Sherri or her assistants responsible.

I firmly believe when the team is playing great and working toward a NC, the head coach gets the credit and rightfully so. But, when things are not good, the head coach should be held accountable.

 

[sybarite]

Not sure what Stacy and Maddie have to do with the discussion. And what is your problem with someone attempting to figure out what might make the team better....trying to make an analysis. I am not saying Sherri is not good; I am not saying she should be fired; I am just saying what I feel might help the program. You seemed to insist on making it personal and being critical. I am not on here criticisizing one player one day and hailing them the next. I am not on here saying we will never win another game, the players are terrible, etc etc.......crotchety old man syndrome?

I thought I said, "not bad." Your attempt to explain your ideas was reasonable. I didn't agree with a lot of it. So?

Maddie and Stacy, or the lack thereof, was introduced as the best solution to the problem that OU has. They were examples of an attitude that OU has to have to compete. We have been lacking that in many of our starters over the past few years. We can't recruit with the top programs, and this program was built without the top recruits, before Courtney. But, in order to succeed, we must have a floor leader with the attitude that Sherri, Stacy, and Maddie bring to the table. We had the potential for a national title with Courtney, but we didn't have that floor leader.

I don't think we are likely to find anyone who can begin to be as effective as Sherri has been with this program. I fear what will happen when she does finally move on. I suspect that we will be in the same boat as Tech, OSU, Kansas State, Kansas, etc. We won't have any reason to attract talent to OU. We certainly didn't before Sherri.

 

[womenssports]

I thought I said, "not bad." Your attempt to explain your ideas was reasonable. I didn't agree with a lot of it. So?

Maddie and Stacy, or the lack thereof, was introduced as the best solution to the problem that OU has. They were examples of an attitude that OU has to have to compete. We have been lacking that in many of our starters over the past few years. We can't recruit with the top programs, and this program was built without the top recruits, before Courtney. But, in order to succeed, we must have a floor leader with the attitude that Sherri, Stacy, and Maddie bring to the table. We had the potential for a national title with Courtney, but we didn't have that floor leader.

I don't think we are likely to find anyone who can begin to be as effective as Sherri has been with this program. I fear what will happen when she does finally move on. I suspect that we will be in the same boat as Tech, OSU, Kansas State, Kansas, etc. We won't have any reason to attract talent to OU. We certainly didn't before Sherri.

Okay. If I took your response the wrong way, I apologize. And, to be clear, I do not want Sherri to leave. I did not say that. She is an icon in Oklahoma.

 

[Oliver Hardy]

Well, I'm pretty darn sure there are scores of good coaches who could easily turn out the results we've seen for the last season and a quarter.


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