OU vs. ISU on paper

[BigTime]

How come our guys didn't get a trumped up paragraph like the clones' starting five did?

 

[thebigabd]

How come our guys didn't get a trumped up paragraph like the clones' starting five did?

We all know our guys.

Yes it has. You obviously assume that Blake coached himself and Capel deserves zero credit, so we might as well move on.

Blake was a freak who worked hard on his game... He would have been the same player under Quinn Snyder. But yes, time to move on.

 

[Sooner04]

Blake was a freak who worked hard on his game... He would have been the same player under Quinn Snyder. But yes, time to move on.

Quin Snyder went to Duke.
Quin Snyder once had his team ranked as high as #2.
Quin Snyder once took his team to the Elite 8.



Uh-oh........

 

[SoonerBounce13]

Given the record without Blake, I think some fans have a big fat * on that season by way of having the National Player of the Year and #1 pick in the NBA draft.

Of course, that has been argued and debated to death around here.

so the season doesn't count?

 

[boksooner]

so the season doesn't count?

Player with good attitude/work ethic = no credit for Capel
Player with bad attitude/work ethic = all blame for Capel

Seems fair to me.

 

[thebigabd]

Quin Snyder went to Duke.
Quin Snyder once had his team ranked as high as #2.
Quin Snyder once took his team to the Elite 8.

Uh-oh........

That is true.....

so the season doesn't count?

It counts, but when you have a variable such as Blake Griffin and you have been terrible without him it raises questions.

Player with good attitude/work ethic = no credit for Capel
Player with bad attitude/work ethic = all blame for Capel

Seems fair to me.

You guys are treating Blake Griffin like any other player... that is the problem here. Blake Griffin was the #2 or #3 player ever to play at OU. He is the exception, not the rule. He was unbelievable.

When the head coach has a losing record without said superstar, it raises questions. How can you possibly disagree with that?

 

[SoonerBounce13]

When the head coach has a losing record without said superstar, it raises questions. How can you possibly disagree with that?

He has only coached two years at OU w/o that superstar. Two years isn't really enough time to evaluate him imo. Do we discredit Roy Williams for his national championship b/c he went from ncaa champions to 9th in their conference after he lost lawson, hansbrough, & green?

 

[TINY]

We all know our guys.



Blake was a freak who worked hard on his game... He would have been the same player under Quinn Snyder. But yes, time to move on.

You think you know our guys by watching a few minutes of highlights, reading a few articles, and looking at their position rankings, but do you really know these guys?

I, for 1, do not know what to expect from these guys. I would like to see them play some ball against division 1 competition before I anoint them as studs or duds.

I do know that ISU does not have better players than OU, though.

 

[thebigabd]

I do know that ISU does not have better players than OU, though.

How do you know Carl Blair is better than Diante Garrett? How do you know Cade Davis is better than Darion Anderson? How do you know CJ Washington is better than Royce White? How do you know Fitz is better than Vanderbeken? How do you know Cam is better than Ejim?

The comparison isnt ridiculous right now... Looking at rankings, experience, numbers, etc its not a silly comparison at this point.

 

[Edmond_Sooner]

How do you know Carl Blair is better than Diante Garrett? How do you know Cade Davis is better than Darion Anderson? How do you know CJ Washington is better than Royce White? How do you know Fitz is better than Vanderbeken? How do you know Cam is better than Ejim?

The comparison isnt ridiculous right now... Looking at rankings, experience, numbers, etc its not a silly comparison at this point.

There isnt a player on our roster that i would positively say is better than a starter at another program...just too much unknown about these players...even the ones that are back...(obviously once we see some games this could change)...

And as much as i love Cade, i see him as a glorified role player that has had to step up and player a much larger role because of the lack of leadership this team had last year and will have this year...

 

[Sam]

How do you know Carl Blair is better than Diante Garrett? How do you know Cade Davis is better than Darion Anderson? How do you know CJ Washington is better than Royce White? How do you know Fitz is better than Vanderbeken? How do you know Cam is better than Ejim?

The comparison isnt ridiculous right now... Looking at rankings, experience, numbers, etc its not a silly comparison at this point.

if you look at rankings than the Cam vs Eijm argument is laughable.

Cam's rankings
Rivals - 34th in the Nation, 5th at position, 4 star
Scout - 33rd in the Nation, 6th at position, 4 star
ESPN - 32nd in the Nation, 6th at position, 4 star

Melvin Ejim
Rivals - Not ranked in the nation or position, 3 star
Scout - Not ranked in the nation, 36th position, 3 star
ESPN - Not ranked in the nation, 38th position 3 star

Also as Sys pointed out earlier in the thread I really doubt if White gets a waiver. I don't see why the NCAA would reward a kid for getting kicked out of Minnesota

White was suspended last fall after an incident at the Mall of America and later pleaded guilty to theft and disorderly conduct. White left Minnesota in February after being charged with trespassing in connection to an alleged theft of a laptop computer from a university dorm.

So I find it odd you continue to use him in your argument for Iowa St unless you provide evidence otherwise of him becoming eligible for this season. If not we might as well be arguing if him or Osby is a better player.

Since you're building up little Vanderbeaken (nothing more than a big off the bench so far) lets pump up Fitz.

Fitz -
Played in 26 of team's 31 games and made 11 starts ... Seven starts came in the final seven games ... Averaged 4.8 points, 2.0 rebounds and 0.5 assists in 15.7 minutes a contest ... Ranked third on team with his .511 field goal percentage and also shot .638 from the free throw line (30-for-47) ... Averaged 13.0 points on 19-for-32 (.594) shooting over a three-game February stretch against Colorado, Kansas State and Kansas ... Recorded season highs of 16 points (8-for-14 shooting), six rebounds and 37 minutes at No. 1 Kansas (Feb. 22) ... Finished with 14 points and five boards versus No. 7 Kansas State (Feb. 20) ...

Out of high school -
A four-star recruit according to Rivals.com and Scout.com ... Ranked No. 68 overall by ESPN.com, No. 70 by Rivals.com and No. 85 by Scout.com ... Regarded as No. 9 center in 2009 recruiting class by Rivals.com ... Averaged 22.5 points and 8.0 rebounds per game in 2008-09 at Brewster Academy in Wolfeboro, N.H. ... Earned first-team national prep school All-America honors ... Also named to National Prep School Invitational All-Tournament Team ..

Now lets compare that to Vanderbeaken.

Also I believe the point that BT was making in this thread was while we know about our guys, not often are they spoken of in the same glowing terms you did for the Cyclones.


Back to the original point of the thread, I will concede ISU has a backcourt advantage if Anderson is able to play. But OU's frontcourt will hold an edge.

 

[bocabull]

Given the record without Blake, I think some fans have a big fat * on that season by way of having the National Player of the Year and #1 pick in the NBA draft.

Of course, that has been argued and debated to death around here.

I have yet to hear any real OU alum mention a big fat * for the year before last. That only comes from the fake fans who loiter around, OSU losers, KU dorks, etc.

 

[stoops4pres]

The Capel 2008-2009 to Snyder 2001-2002 comparisons are far-fetched. Quin's squad underachieved the entire season, were given a 12 seed, and then after taking the entire season to reach his team the light finally came on for them for a couple of weeks.

Compared to Capel who, unlike Snyder, had his team play up to expectations by winning over 30 games, and 2 seed in the tournament that probably would have been higher had they not lost Blake for two of its biggest games of the season.

Capel has at least shown that he can get the most out of his talent the entire season, something Snyder was never able to do.

And before someone gainsays by stating "Well Capel didn't get the most out of his talent this year", yes, that is true. But he shouldn't be held back for meeting expectations of a talented team like he did in 2008-2009, as some coaches were never able to do that much (i.e. Snyder).

 

[TINY]

How do you know Carl Blair is better than Diante Garrett? How do you know Cade Davis is better than Darion Anderson? How do you know CJ Washington is better than Royce White? How do you know Fitz is better than Vanderbeken? How do you know Cam is better than Ejim?

The comparison isnt ridiculous right now... Looking at rankings, experience, numbers, etc its not a silly comparison at this point.

Good point. I contradicted myself there:woot

I will say that you are putting a lot of weight in White, who will likely not even suit up this season for ISU, while you do not even include Calvin in the discussion as a possibilty for OU.

With Cal and Blair @pg, I like OU's roster better than ISU's at 3 out of 5 starting positions. The other 2 positions being a push to me with Cade and Washington or whoever plays C.

 

[thebigabd]

I have yet to hear any real OU alum mention a big fat * for the year before last. That only comes from the fake fans who loiter around, OSU losers, KU dorks, etc.

I am not an OU alum, and don't claim to be.

I judge Capel in the same way I would any other coach for any other school. What's wrong with that? He is going into his 5th season, and its not expected to be a good one. If a coach performs poorly half the time he has been here, with another possible bad season on the way, is it really so taboo that fans call into question the direction of the program?

 

[thebigabd]

if you look at rankings than the Cam vs Eijm argument is laughable.

Cam's rankings
Rivals - 34th in the Nation, 5th at position, 4 star
Scout - 33rd in the Nation, 6th at position, 4 star
ESPN - 32nd in the Nation, 6th at position, 4 star

Melvin Ejim
Rivals - Not ranked in the nation or position, 3 star
Scout - Not ranked in the nation, 36th position, 3 star
ESPN - Not ranked in the nation, 38th position 3 star

Sure, a disparity in the rankings. But do you doubt that Melvin Ejim is going to be a good player for ISU? Sure, I think Cam is going to be a VERY VERY good player for Oklahoma.... But I dont for a second think that he is going to outclass Melvin Ejim.

The guy is 6'6'' 215, extremely athletic, can really slash to the rim, and can really defend. Alec Burks didnt get a ton of hype and ended up going to Colorado out of high school. He didnt even get an offer from Mizzou (he is from Missouri) and he may be the best small forward in the Big 12 next year.

Hell, his coach (who also coaches Will Barton and a host of other D-1 players) said that Ejim is "the most college-ready athlete we have in our program. Physically and mentally, he really stands out. The way he defends and plays so hard all the time, he is truly one of the most impressive players I’ve seen."

Fitz -
Played in 26 of team's 31 games and made 11 starts ... Seven starts came in the final seven games ... Averaged 4.8 points, 2.0 rebounds and 0.5 assists in 15.7 minutes a contest ... Ranked third on team with his .511 field goal percentage and also shot .638 from the free throw line (30-for-47) ... Averaged 13.0 points on 19-for-32 (.594) shooting over a three-game February stretch against Colorado, Kansas State and Kansas ... Recorded season highs of 16 points (8-for-14 shooting), six rebounds and 37 minutes at No. 1 Kansas (Feb. 22) ... Finished with 14 points and five boards versus No. 7 Kansas State (Feb. 20) ...

You will get no argument from me about Fitz... I have posted in many threads that I think he is going to come back next year and be a better player. He is talented, and I think he will play a significant role (along with Pledger and Clark) in getting OU out of this rut.

Back to the original point of the thread, I will concede ISU has a backcourt advantage if Anderson is able to play. But OU's frontcourt will hold an edge.

Alright, so comparing them on paper is valid. It's not a crazy comparison. They have better guards than OU, and OU has a better frontcourt if Royce White can't play. No disagreement from me there.

 

[playmakr]

Dorian Anderson transferred to ISU?

Where the hell have I been?

 

[Mr.B!!!]

If ISU, NU or Colorado brought in arguably three of the Top 100 HS players in the country and a JUCO AA at a position of need you'd be doing backflips and raving about the potential of that group.

As to your comparison, you have a guy with similar credentials to Neal (who I would expect to see very limited minutes) penciled in as a starter for ISU, and another guy whose eligibility is in question starting as well. To me, ISU has one clear advantage, proven point guard play...and I'll give that an asterick since said point guard played his entire career with Brackins and that obviously made him look better [sound familiar?].

 

[thebigabd]

Iowa State is now 6-0, and their guards that I was pimping above are averaging:

Diante Garrett: 17.5 points, 3.5 rebounds, 6.5 assists
Darion Anderson: 12.5 points, 9.3 rebounds, 3.3 assists
Melvin Ejim: 15.7 points, 6.3 rebounds

 

[HoHum]

ISU's looked good. You have to think Cyclone fans are happy with Hoiberg so far.